Third Secretary Competition - 2024

Stranger Things

This Friday, July 19th, 2024, marks the opening of the Third Secretary competition in the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Diplomatic officers will have the opportunity to work at headquarters in Dublin or Limerick, as well as at various Irish embassies, consulates, and multilateral missions around the world.

Applicants must hold a first or second class honours degree (minimum Level 8 on the National Framework of Qualifications) or be qualified as a Solicitor or Barrister by the closing date of August 8th, 2024.

Will throw my name into the hat for this! Only a CO so wouldn’t fancy my chances!

FunkyChicken24

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this position before. What is the grade equivalent?

dory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122397015#Comment_122397015

Equivalent to HEO, but starting salary is €38,369 rather than €55,996.

countyireland12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122397781#Comment_122397781

AO would be the more accurate equivalent noting that AO and HEO are seen as the same level with the same maximum point on their respective payscales but with different starting salaries.

Stranger Things

More like an AO as I don’t believe you manage anyone like an HEO (could be wrong there).

Not really a role to lightly consider though as it can involve going abroad for 3 or more years. Supposedly a young persons game I was told!

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122397781#Comment_122397781

And they want to attract solicitors? A newly qualified solicitor in Dublin can easily make double that.

Stranger Things

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122398849#Comment_122398849

they always seem to ask for that. Very strange….

Also not sure if I want to put Limerick as a second option to increase my chances….would be raging if I got that

licayal

Limerick is in sore need of staff I believe. Irish Aid and Development is based out of Limerick so you could end up being posted there.

I wouldn't put it down if you sincerely don't want it.

licayal

There's a line in the application stating:

Please do not use any special characters when filling in the application. Examples of these are as follows: brackets, semi colons, colons, quotation marks, forward slash or backslash)

I was confused by this because surely not all special characters? Full stops and commas should be allowed right even though they are special characters?

So I emailed PAS to confirm and my assumption that it was a non-issue was correct. Imagine your application being thrown out for using a full stop.

foggyflies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400206#Comment_122400206

Hi could you please elaborate on this please? As in you mean it is not recommended overall? Limerick i mean

keane10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400206#Comment_122400206

Do you know if this means any positions in Limerick would be potentially Africa-focused?

dory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122401000#Comment_122401000

If you have a look at the Irish Aid Annual Report you'll see what sort of work they do. Not all Africa (but mostly).

licayal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400983#Comment_122400983

I meant that if you're going to be raging if you get put in Limerick, I wouldn't put it down. It would be a personal preference matter! :)

licayal

I threw my submission in on Friday evening because I had material from my First Secretary application. Anyone else doing both?

Stranger Things

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416746#Comment_122416746

I am doing both. Definitely won’t get first sec….would be lucky to get third sec so not really thinking about the first!!

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416746#Comment_122416746

Hard to know whether to try for this campaign. It would be a rather lateral move.

Do any AOs apply for this? Or do they just hold out hope for first sec?

foggyflies

I've gone for it multiple times over the last decade… it is legendary as being the hardest of all. With the combination of limits on the number of jobs going and the demand from outside the civil service… it's like nothing else. I'd be curious to know exactly how many apply for it in each. Would anyone know the general figures? Haven't seen them.

Stranger Things

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122420657#Comment_122420657

No figures but I note it has like 300% more interactions on social media than any other comp.

exitstageleft

I seem to recall previous figures of in or around 1200 applications per campaign. With maybe 40 taken onboard at most, that leaves a success rate of only ~3%.

But some people get there.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422271#Comment_122422271

I guess that makes sense. A lot of non CS roles might get 50-100 applications for only one position so seems in line with that - the larger scale can make it feel different though!

PamDam

With regards to putting down Limerick as a location - is anyone familiar with the way the third secretary posts actually work in terms of splitting time between foreign postings and working in Irish offices?

I'd be happy to do a year in Limerick before/after my first posting, but long-term I'd really need to be based in Dublin. Once you return from a posting are you dropped back into the exact role you were doing in Ireland before you left, or is there scope to transfer to the Dublin offices?

Would love some insight on the way the role operates in terms of swapping from postings to Irish-based work from people who have any info!

readoutloud

You'll normally do one to three years at HQ (which means either Dublin or a Limerick) before going on posting. Third Secs then normally go abroad for three years at a time.

Once you come back, you're assigned to a unit that has an opening. It is highly unlike you'd go back to the same unit you were in before you left.

As to whether you can choose Limerick or Dublin on return, it's still somewhat of an open question. Generally, I think HR do their best to accommodate people.

As to starting your tenure in the Department in Limerick - it's pretty rare.

lbuck12

I am looking at the booklet and correct me if I am wrong but is this competition similar to other roles where everyone is invited to sit the online assessments? If so how different are they to the AO ones as they are the highest assessments I have sat.

boardsenthusiast

Hi! Does anyone have a saved copy of the PDF about the role from Public Jobs? I only viewed it online and can't find it. Thanks very much :)

CMC96

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498988#Comment_122498988

DM'd you a copy! 😊

hajskened

Hello I am also looking for a saved copy of the PDF about the role. I only saved the AO framework unfortunately.

CMC96

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505872#Comment_122505872

Will DM it to you now. 🙂

hajskened

Thank you :)

Leonora888

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone has any idea of what the nature of this year's psychometric tests might be? I know DFA changed the assessment provider in 2022 and did away with the deductive logic test.

How are you guys intending to practice for them?

Best of luck with the process! :)

jebos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511241#Comment_122511241

Hey! Could please DM a copy as well! Much obliged!

CMC96

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122513284#Comment_122513284

Certainly! Actually I'll just post it here for anyone else who needs it lol, sorry I don't know why I didn't do that earlier.

24306206_Final_24306206_Junior_Diplomats_DFA_2024-2.pdf

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122512361#Comment_122512361

I'm wondering this myself, and I'd like to find out when they will be and who the test provider will be. Hopefully it's not Sova.

boardsenthusiast

When are people usually contacted about whether they have made it through to the first round?

pygmaliondreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519892#Comment_122519892

My guess is mid-late september with interviews starting first week of october but who knows.

EDIT: Wrong thread oops lol. For this comp I have no idea.

CMC96

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519892#Comment_122519892

There's an estimated timeline included in the candidate information booklet but all provisional oc, so who knows.

Gem1122

These are the provisional dates for the campaign from the info booklet

Stage 1 – Online Testing 30th August 2024 – 4th September 2024

Stage 2 – Precis Exercise 7th October 2024 – 9th October 2024

Stage 3 - Interview 4th November 2024 - 15th November 2024

Firstnamebunchofnumbers

Has anyone heard back from Public Jobs yet?

mintymenthol93

Assuming no one has heard from them yet in regards to the online testing but has anyone thought about preparing? There seems to be a lot of psychometric tests available for a fee online like Graduates First. I feel okay for a verbal reasoning portion but would be a bit nervous for the numerical section. Best of luck to everyone!

licayal

Hi everyone,

I queried the PAS office who is dealing with this Comp and they will give a notification on the psychometric testing either end of this week or early next week.

Firstnamebunchofnumbers

Just got a message re the stage 1 assessments

lucat

I was hoping we'd be given the usual 1 week, as I'll be out of the country and only returning on the Thursday. Now I'll have to bring my laptop with me

mintymenthol93

This part of the message is not very moral boosting - “ An invitation to attend any part of the selection process is not to be taken as implying that publicjobs is satisfied that you possess the requisite knowledge, ability, and qualifications for the position. Please therefore ensure that you meet these requirements.“

RamblingBabbler

Does anybody have any idea how to approach the 'Assessment Questionnaire' part of the examination?

Stranger Things

Got the email too. Personally glad it is a short turnaround time. Get it over with!

An external preparation link too.

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122536275#Comment_122536275

They have a line like that in every competition booklet. It means when they finally do review your application they have the right to remove you from the competition if you don't meet the basic eligibility requirements, but overall it's just boilerplate.

lucat

And it's Sova as well. They couldn't have picked a worse provider!

licayal

Never done it with Sova before, trying to decipher if it's just one company or if it's the format of questions or both. Someone might be kind enough to enlighten me?

dory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537013#Comment_122537013

Why do you say that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122536302#Comment_122536302

Someone here is going to have to take the hit, take it on Day 1 and come back here and fill us all in. 😀

Law100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122536302#Comment_122536302

The familiarisation booklet has a decent explainer on what to expect in this part, it seems fairly straightforward. Definitely a good idea to brush up on the competencies set out in the info booklet beforehand.

mintymenthol93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537178#Comment_122537178

The only part that might be interesting is Part two, when it asks you to rate responses to certain situations a Third Secretary may encounter. It is also the only part where the don't give you a sample question in the Familiarisation booklet, just the scale we will use to rank responses.

lucat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122537146#Comment_122537146

What do you mean?