Killing these weeds

JAMES VTI S

How can I get rid of these please. No amount of pulling them will stop them growing and growing.

n.d.os

Theres a common misconception that weeds won't grow if you have underlay under the gravel but weeds love our warm wet summers and theres no way to stop them growing in gravel. Just stay on top of spraying the area every two months and it will become more manageable. I notice in urban areas people have less problems with weeds in gravel as households are not bringing in truck loads of bark chip and mulch into estates as people would who live in the country. When I introduced bark chip to my garden I started to get a lot of knotweed.

The Continental Op

Roundup ;-) My usual answer. It works on Montbretia but may need applying a few times and maybe over a couple of years.

To minimize use you could make up a gel with Roundup and wallpaper paste and paint the leaves with it every time they come up.

Sonic the Shaghog

Is there not a bulb to these are you getting that when you pull as well? I feel your pain. Get glyphosate (Roundup, Gallop, Mizr) and mix it at 3 to 1 that's 3L water to 1L glyphosate. It'll kill anything.

Id just "spot" spray. Whatever you see give it a quick spray and just have to keep spraying any new growth unfortunately

looksee

Pulling them will make no difference whatever as they grow from corms, usually stacked corms and in groups so you pull one you have left a whole lot more. TCO's solution is the way to go.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122404885#Comment_122404885

Its a corm that has loads of segments any you break off will regrow.

tritriagain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122404885#Comment_122404885

Is that mix not very strong. I mix 150ml -200ml in 5 l of water and it is very effective

Sonic the Shaghog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122404926#Comment_122404926

It is. Its more a recommendation to completely destroy it if it gives trouble.

My 3 to 1 mix is usually when I'm at Japanese knotweed the feckin council spread to one of my stitches and never bothered their arse sorting out despite numerous promises.

I was afraid of it spreading near the house or expanding on the land. Then noticed a neighbouring farmers land on the other side of the river has more of it and he's not taking care at all so another piece spread to one of the fields, all from initial council works.

When it initially grew it was maybe 6 feet(?) tall and about 7 feet wide. Got numerous quotes from all these expert companies on how they'd need to come out and inject each stalk to kill it and then it would require topping up, special concentrate they said regular wouldn't work. At nearly a grand I think

I had some gallop at the time and went 3 to 1. It took about 3 weeks before I saw anything but it was like a fire in a cardboard factory ate through it and that was maybe 4 years ago. I only topped it the other evening as 3 separate patches have returned. Now in the last few years a few little stalks came back but you could see the root system was shattered they only grew to like 2 feet and very weak.

Council came along hedge cutting 2 weeks ago and the bright spark didn't even see their own big sign saying knotweed do not cut and managed to cut a finger length in front of the new stalks so I went spraying before they cut and spread next year.

Anyways my ramble is I often have a litre or two in the knapsack after so I use it on various weeds and grass in the street and it burns them so hard they dry up and blow away in the wind rather than the usual brown hay you see at times that stays all summer.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122405110#Comment_122405110

For JK the 5l per hectare rate gives good results. Spray timing on JK is the most important factor, early September onwards being the right time.

Early spraying is useful provided its early enough to allow the JK to regrow for a spraying before it dies back (September onwards) because it reduces the height of the weed making the end of year spray easier.

Once its nearly under control hit it every time small bits reemerge.

For JK my standard mix is 25ml per liter and I've killed acres of the stuff.

Sonic the Shaghog

Thanks for that I'll try next time 😊

JAMES VTI S

Ive been pulling them for months but the plastic membrane won't alow the roots to come up through and can only remove the leaves.

What about putting the round up solution in a container and applying to leaves with a long handle foam roller soaked in the soloition. Like painting the leaves. I'd be afraid of getting over spray on my plants .

Just thinking of how to do this on regular basis easily.

Thanks for advise.

The Continental Op

Make up half a liter of wallpaper paste then ad 50ml of glyphosate (Roundup). Add more water or wallpaper paste to get the consistency you want. It takes a while as the wallpaper paste slowly thickens after mixing. Paint on with a paint brush. Takes about 2 weeks to see any affect but just leave the foliage until its completely dead could be more than 4 weeks. You can also add a food dye so its easier to see what plants have been painted. 50ml in 500ml is a little strong and 25ml or less will do but I normally mix it at that strength for bindweed. Just make sure rain won't wash the gel onto plants you want to keep and that the wind won't wave painted leaves against plants you don't want to die. The mix will keep for ages so you can keep some on hand but obviously clearly mark the container you keep it in.

looksee

You will often find that plants treated with glycophosphate actually look a bit perkier for a while after treating them, and you may think well that was a waste of energy. They can take a while, two or three weeks sometimes, especially tough yokes like montbretia. Like briars or nettles, they will probably need a few treatments, but they will go in the end. Don't lose patience and try and pull them up half way through treatment, leave them to die back.

JAMES VTI S

Thanks again. Will report back.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122404843#Comment_122404843

be VERY , VERY careful with all sprays - and especially Roundup- be they for weed, insect ,fungus, bacteria control. As a general rule , I treat them all as ‘potentially’ carcinogenic. So think gloves , mast, cap, plastic footware- wellingtons- and overalls. I know this advice may be slightly over the top in some cases but it’s better being ‘ safe than sorry’

Weepsie

Boiling water will kill them and very possibly the bulb without having to resort to stuff like roundup

SupaCat95

Round Up (any Phophoglyphate is the last thing you want). Start reading about the Bayer-Monsanto merger. Its trouble that will revisit you later. Dig up and boiling water.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406641#Comment_122406641

That will have as much affect as pulling the tops off. I don't think you have ever tried to get rid of Montbretia. Even with chemicals it won't go without a fight. Thats why its classified as an invasive species https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/79142/011f8e2f-e313-40f4-903d-0f928ad5ab98.pdf

looksee

We (that's a royal 'we', it was mostly my husband that did it) did manage to clear a bed of montbretia by deep digging and very patient sifting and sorting. It was very solidly infested. When I say 'clear' the odd one did still come up, but at least there was space for other things. He had much more patience than me.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406704#Comment_122406704

I've a few that come up in a bed that I don't spray because its full of hellebores. Think I must have been pulling and hoeing the Montbretia for the last ten years tiny bits still comes up. Left for a year they'd become big bits.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406694#Comment_122406694

Still better than Using toxic things like roundup imo. Just requires diligence

mulbot

Boiling water with a cup of vinegar thrown in will kill any weed

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406881#Comment_122406881

Not these. It'll kill off the foliage but not the corms.

looksee

I dug some corms up and threw them on a loose, not very composty compost heap, there is now a nice crop of montbretia growing out of nothing much.

Lewis_Benson

A good dose of weedkiller is the only answer.

anewme

I’ve a gravel path from Patio to shed about 4ft across and 10 ft long. It’s now almost covered with weeds and boiling water is only killing individual weeds. Is there anything I can do to treat the whole path? Some one mentioned a salt mix?

Also the gravel Is gone a bit shabby looking. Any ideas to clean or is it a replace job

looksee

Its not necessarily a replace job, though you might find if you clear the weeds a top-up of gravel will improve it.

Either you can pull the weeds individually, or you can get some weedkiller and treat it - choose a still day so there is no danger of it blowing onto the grass or whatever is either side of it.

You may say 'I don't want to use chemicals on it' - salt is a chemical, vinegar is a chemical and neither are designed for getting rid of weeds. Potentially they can do more damage than the chemicals that have been designed for the job. A 4' x 10 ft path you could probably do with a spray gun that you buy ready mixed so you do not have to have left over product in the shed, check the bottle for area coverage.

Edit - reading this thread may give the impression that we are recommending weedkiller all around, this is not so, there is very limited use for weedkiller in the garden, but for paths and drives, and the previously mention extremely persistent weeds like montbretia weedkiller is the only reasonable solution.

The Continental Op

Another option would be a gas weed gun and burn them off. Its not a big area. You don't try and burn them to a crisp first time around. Do a pass over and leave them a bit then following day do the same again until they are gone. Ideally in a really hot spell ;-)

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406881#Comment_122406881

Add rock salt to that and it will kill most weeds. Not for JK though that needs the big guns .Also do have to repeat a few times though especially in this showery weather.

magicbastarder

There was quite a bit of it in this garden when we first moved in. I just yanked it up as we gardened, and it still pops up but no more than a few mins every couple of weeks now is spent pulling at it.

standardg60

This thread is depressing me, 3-1 mixes of roundup, are people trying to kill themselves?

The general dilution is 2%, 100ml to 5 litres. The dilution for JK is 5%, 250ml to 5 litres. That is it! Making up your own dilution rates cos sure the more the merrier is a death sentence if you breathe enough of it in. I've often thrown in another 200 or 300ml of water when I've reached the bottom of the knapsack to finish off an area and it's still worked, please stick to the instructions.

As for the suggested wanton use of household chemicals, none of them have been tested for their effectiveness on weeds or damage to fauna when applied because they're not weed killers. Weed killer is on the shelves because it has, thoroughly!

Anyone who thinks using household chemicals for something it's not designed for in the belief that it's 'safer' is to be polite ill informed.

Leg End Reject

I just pull weeds from gravel, the roots come with them because I don't let them get big. It's not very dignified - bent over with my arse in the air 😂, but it works very well for smaller areas. You could also use a kneel pad to do it.

I've seen people sieve gravel with a piece of wire stapled to a wooden frame and then rinse the gravel before relaying it. Again, not too much work for a small area.

looksee

Lol, I have done the gravel seiving and yes, it does work. Its flippin hard work though!

standardg60

Way OT, but connected, anyone else notice that Crocosmia Lucifer have been absolutely superb this year? Every garden I've been to they're flowering their heads off.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430690#Comment_122430690

i don't think we need to 'test' salt to be fair!

and vinegar is a fairly simple organic compound, which is produced by organic processes; both salt and vinegar are known to be safe to humans (except if ingested in stupidly high doses!); i don't think it's a fair comparison to compare them to a compound which does not otherwise exist naturally, and which animals and plants had never had to evolve to cope with until 50 years ago.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122431383#Comment_122431383

This is the thing MB, people think that because throwing salt and vinegar on their chips has no affect on them then it can't have any affect on organisms in the soil. Applying foreign elements and acids without prior testing is not gardening.

Glyphosate has been proven to become completely inactive in soil, household chemicals are far more lethal.

magicbastarder

the sea has been throwing salt onto the land for billions of years.

you mention 'household chemicals'; are there any others bar salt and vinegar which have been mentioned in the thread; i may have missed.

looksee

Soda and Bleach are the first two to come to mind. A neighbour uses diesel to keep his stone walls clear of weeds (it certainly kills weeds, that's not to say its a good idea).

budgemook

Morning. I'm a new garden owner and still trying to figure things out 🙂 I have been removing hedges from the side of my house and plan to replace them with small plants / herbs and flowers. Since ripping out some of the big, thorny plants this thing has shot up. I was just going to pull it this weekend but now I'm concerned that it's knotweed or the like. Any advice appreciated - I have weedkiller ready to go!

magicbastarder

That's elder. It's native, but many people consider it a weed.

looksee

That isn't a suitable site for an elder, it will get too big. Its a valuable wildlife bush but more suited to a rural hedgerow, as mb says, its a weed in an urban garden.

budgemook

I'm far from urban but yeah it's right on my house. I'll just pull it up so, thanks.

Jim_Hodge

Ground Elder. It pulls out easily enough but bits of remaining root can grow. Dig out as much as you can.

Not to be confused with elderberry trees.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432478#Comment_122432478

That is Elderberry Jim.

I imagine it was already there when the OP cleared the area and has just resprouted.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432784#Comment_122432784

it's Ground Elder Aegopodium podagraria.

Elderberry is Sambucus

looksee

I'd say it was elder. If it were ground elder it would be growing from multiple plants low down, it would not have those tall stems. Also mature ground elder is more matt looking, those leaves are shiny. And gound elder leaves grow more snuggly into the stem, those stand away slightly.

The Continental Op

Can't be sure but if you look hard enough there looks to be and old elder stump in the back there?

Goldengirl

Interested in this as have some persistent weeds in paving and around four of walls that I have been battling for a while.

Am a bit deflated @ standardg60 by your comment as the only thing keeping them back has been the vinegar and rock salt combination and I really don't want to use heavier weedkiller. There are lots of birds , dogs and cats and not to mention small children around, not to mention me and my family , and I have always looked for a more natural solution as a result.

The most I have used is a mild bleach paving wash if the black spot algae takes hold .

I fully understand the careful use of proprietary weed killers for serious invasive stuff like JK .

However even the council do not recommend anything more than soapy solutions to remove kerb weeds etc not that they bother much in my area to remove them anymore .

It very much depends on where you live and what you are tackling I think .

Garibaldi?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122432134#Comment_122432134

l have this growing against the wall of the house . Definitely some sort of elder. The rather bitter smell is a dead giveaway. A kettle of boiling water kills it and it takes a few years to come back. Another drink of boiling water and it shrivels up again.

looksee

I have cats and they have never been affected by weedkiller. Once it hits the soil it becomes inert so there is no reason why it would affect birds or pets or anything else. I sound as though I am a fan of weedkiller, and I am not, but it does have its occasional uses.

Edited to add - salt kills worms and beneficial microbes in the soil.

alias no.9

Rock salt is very effective, particularly on gravel where you never want anything to grow. Should work a treat for the OP, big bag or two of de-icing salt and spread it out with a shovel.