Ryanair's quarterly profit misses estimates, shares sink.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418050#Comment_122418050

Apologies for refining the chart to the exact circumstance the poster quoted.

Short haul air travel is more energy intensive per mile because of the extra energy required for take off and ascent in particular. So I've no problems taking EU definitions to show that Dublin to London is short haul, and therefore the poster's comment that "Flying is greener" is not remotely true.

If you're upset about the source, a book like Mike Berners-Lee's How Bad Are Bananas will given you similar info. I don't think it can really be in any dispute that, while the answer to the question "Is the end nigh for air travel" is sadly no, we really should be doing everything possible to reduce it. And not making excuses for it, as many here are doing.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418188#Comment_122418188

Not sure why the aggression in your post tbh. Not my fault if you don't like the facts behind climate change - but we're all going to have to accept either the facts, or the consequences. It really is as simple as that.

I don't care where you go on holidays but you really should bear carbon in mind. And as Furze99 rightly says "Many of us grew up and remember well when the ferry to Holyhead was the norm." Very easy to get to most of Europe by train from there.

(With apologies to the mods for multi-posting btw - I don't see a way to multiquote on the new Boards?)

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122421399#Comment_122421399

aggression?
What aggression?
Maybe you quoted me in error?

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122421399#Comment_122421399

I like many others have absolutely no intention of limiting the amount of flights I take nor will I take into consideration the amount of carbon from those flights. If I need or want to go somewhere, I’ll be going.

If I’m going away for a week I am not going to spend 2 or more days travelling by boat, car or rail. I’ll fly as it’s the most time saving, convenient option.

Irelands weather is miserable for about 50 weeks of the year and if we banned flying in Ireland completely it would make absolutely no difference to the climate.

Live life to the full, make memories abroad, as tomorrow is guaranteed for no one.

If you are concerned, don’t fly. However don’t expect the rest of us on a rainy island on the outskirts of Europes to do the same nor call for restrictions on travel or make out that individuals have an acceptable quota per year.

10 or 20 percent of Dublin airports power comes from solar, most of their ground fleet is electric, there’s incentives for quieter and cleaner aircraft to land, ~ 500m is due to be spent on climate projects at the airport. airports are moving in the right direction to become carbon neutral.

faceman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122421365#Comment_122421365

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122421365#Comment_122421365

Jesus I give up. Listen, you sit at home, cycle your bike, and grow lettuce on your window sill. Meanwhile the rest of the world will keep turning.

Your only solution is to ban flying and shame people who want to live abroad. Best of luck with that pal.

faceman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122421399#Comment_122421399

Ferries generate higher emissions per passenger than airplanes. High speed ferries that operate on Irish waters generate even higher emissions. Surprised you didn't know that. Will we ban ferries now too?

Tenzor07

There's nothing worse than someone who tries to "Flight shame" others, especially on a small island where we have little choice but to fly and Ryanair have revolutionised the country with their cheap flights.

I do remember the ferry to Holyhead and train to London, but that took the entire day really, but that was back in the day, it's not really compatible with modern lifestyles..

If someone is really worried about their carbon emissions they can do a lot more to reduce their carbon footprint.. grow your own veg, cycle an old steel-framed bicycle, wear 2nd hand clothes, work from home, use wind power, don't have kids, that would be much better for the world.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419856#Comment_122419856

Ryanair employees received the pandemic payment.

That's a state subsidy.

IngazZagni

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424381#Comment_122424381

Perhaps some did but this would have been under the exact same conditions available to every single business in this Country so I'm not sure what your point is? Ryanair did not sack any staff during the pandemic but did reduce their pay unlike other companies who fired thousands of staff and they would have gone on the pup.

More the the original point of this thread. Easyjet released their 3 month figures showing an increase in profits and revenue per passenger slightly up and fares holding firm with record full year profits forecast. This contrasts quite starkly to Ryanair. Maybe Ryanairs problem is more of an internal issue with a poorer product offering.

Wizz release results in a week so that will be one to watch for the low cost market.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122421905#Comment_122421905

And sadly this is the sort of privileged, ignorant, self-centred attitude that's going to ensure we do nothing about climate change to be quite honest.

And even then, what I initially commented on was the idea of bringing people in from the other side of the world to clean our offices, or Irish people flying to Australia for a change of scenery. That generates an increasing cohort of people who, in one trip alone, generate more carbon than a person should generate in a year if we're to keep warming manageable. There's not much you can do in one click that generates a year's worth of carbon or more. Buying a new car would be up there - though even then you wouldn't do it every year.

A holiday to France by comparison is much less harmful - but increasingly we do need to consider going back to boat travel like people did a generation ago. I did it growing up in the 80s and never had a problem with it.

The power supply of Dublin airport is utterly irrelevant, and the idea that Dublin Airport is on the way to becoming carbon neutral is complete greenwashing given it's the flights - and they've tripled in the past 20 years - that are the problem, not the electricity.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122421965#Comment_122421965

Any source on that?

Cos here's another link (Data source - UK Government, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero) showing it's not correct. In fact, it specifically says "If travelling internationally, going by train or boat is lower-carbon than flying"

There's plenty of other sources out there saying the same thing too.

But haven't seen any to back up your claim.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422067#Comment_122422067

"It's not really compatible with modern lifestyles"

**** me - the planet's epitaph in one sentence there.

The things you mention are good - although having kids comes with caveats such as (a) are you willing to defer your pension because there's no-one there to pay it? Otherwise you drive carbon-heavy immigration which defeats the point, and (b) having kids and raising them with an awareness of carbon is probably good - but cutting flights is still better.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416389#Comment_122416389

That graph has no relevance to this discussion on Ryanair who have a co2 footprint of 65g/km per passenger.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122426587#Comment_122426587

I'm perfectly good with taking as many flights as I possibly can, Ryanair have really opened up travel, changed how we work and how we spend our leisure.. We're not France or Italy here, we can't just hop on a high speed train to travel across the continent!

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

According to the study, having a child in a developed country like Russia, the United States or Japan, would result in approximately 60 metric tons per year in CO2 emissions — an amount roughly equivalent to putting 13 gas-powered cars on the road for a year

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417923#Comment_122417923

Once a plane gets to cruise level they are hugely efficient as the air is not dense at altitude.

gossamerfabric

by 2031 Ryanair aim to have a co2 footprint of 50g/km per passenger.

gossamerfabric

I just booked another Ryanair flight for €47 euro with the lowest co2 emmissions in the industry. More power to them. People need inexpensive transport of the rain-sodden island that is Ireland.

RoyalCelt

Shouldn't the thread title say dip or shares hit by turbulence. They're not operating a fleet of ferries!

gossamerfabric

Shares are already recovering as the market over-reacted.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122426565#Comment_122426565

It stands to reason that aircraft would use way more energy than ferries because they have to overcome gravity as well as air resistance (drag), but ferries only have to overcome the resistance from water. Yet, the source quoted by the other poster looks respectable with the Swedish Energy Agency and University of Gothenburg behind it. So, how is there such a massive difference?

It looks like the UK figure is for passenger ferries only (excluding cars and freight) which seems like a fairer comparison. Speed makes a huge difference with ferries as well (slower the better) but there isn't much you can do about that with aircraft. Though, it's true that heavy fuel oil is way more polluting than kerosene.

faceman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122426565#Comment_122426565

For in-depth studies I suggest you follow the work of David McCollum, David Greene and Greg Gould.

Every time studies of ferries are mentioned, they can often be very selective with how data is presented. If you are flying to Spain from Dublin vs taking a ferry, there is obviously less distance than can be covered by ferry. Similarly data from carrying freight can be excluded or used to offset passenger emissions.

As already pointed out, flying isn't going away. It's a necessity in modern day life. Focus on tackling it upstream, not downstream.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122426641#Comment_122426641

Another [citation needed] post there.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428832#Comment_122428832

Flying isn't going away, sure. But equally it's not going to have a magic carbon neutral solution any time soon - sustainable aviation fuel and biomass are just greenwashing. It's a major source, and one of the fastest-growing sources, of carbon. Simple as that. You need to get hold of that fact and grasp it.

So what do we do? Ban flying? Of course not - and I've never suggested as much. But we need to be very much aware of it. As I said at the very start of this, it is an utterly daft thing to be doing creating a growing cohort of people who, by one trip to visit their relatives, generate more carbon than a person should generate in one year. How can possibly combat climate change like that?

The vast vast majority of people on this planet (89% in their life, according to one source. Or 94% in 2018, according to the Smithsonian) have never been on a plane. Yet you think it's a necessity in modern life? That's the sort of privileged, self-centred view that I'm trying to argue against here. And that needs to get argued against.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122426648#Comment_122426648

You really shouldn't be perfectly good with taking as many flights as you can. You absolutely should be shamed out of that. In fact, that's a growing social movement, which has had some (limited) success. And you absolutely can hop on a high speed train to travel across the continent. I've done it several times. It's a great way to travel.

That 60 tonne per year figure is very hard to take seriously btw - especially when you consider the average person in the UK (I assume Ireland is similar) generates around 13 tonnes per year. And indeed, the small print says "The figure was calculated by totting up the emissions of the child and all their descendants, then dividing this total by the parent’s lifespan. Each parent was ascribed 50% of the child’s emissions, 25% of their grandchildren’s emissions and so on." That's too long-term to be of any real relevance.

And the reality is that while reducing the global population absolutely is a good thing, it comes with caveats as I noted. Who's going to pay your pension at 65 for example? Who's going to keep the economy inflating and giving you salary raises to keep ahead of inflation? The only way we can afford it now is to have the population continually growing. And growing by immigration, which is really carbon heavy, as I've shown. So that really defeats the point.

Now, if you want to have no kids and argue in favour of a sustainable society - for example, pension age at 70, or even later - then we're on to something. But given the reek of privilege off you in terms of "I'll fly when and where I want", I can't imagine you arguing for a deferment of pension age either.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430238#Comment_122430238

Going wildly off the topic here…

However, for me to get from Dublin to Brussels for say a Monday morning meeting at 9am I can either get the 7am Ryanair flight to Brussels and a taxi into the office to be there on time or I can leave at 7am Sunday morning, get a ferry to Holyhead, a train to London, the Eurostar to Brussels and pay probably 5 x times as much for the privilege..

Anyways, i'm off to book another Ryanair flight now, cya.

cdeb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430313#Comment_122430313

And increasingly, ESG in companies is asking "Is that flight really necessary? Could the meeting be done remotely instead?"

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430313#Comment_122430313

Wouldn’t waste anymore time nor energy replying back to CDEB.

let him ( or her) crawl back into their cave to save the planet and tend to their homegrown lettuce as I would presume someone like that doesn’t run a home as that would be terrible for the environment.

p.s any good deals on Ryanair?

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430186#Comment_122430186

Their fy24 results which they have to stand by as investors rely upon the information they communicate to the market.

You are happy to lap up any suspect data from mendacious actors but challenge me on a legitimate source. Log off and spend some time questioning the motives of those at whose alter you worship.

gossamerfabric

And then you eventually find the offices in e.u. shut down because the sustainability guys in local play in to the hands of ambitious departments overseas. We are loosing 3000 staff and replacement will only be done in India which cares not one jot about sustainability or dirty coal or Russian war oil.

If you are thinking about what you leave for your kids first think about the jobs you Advocated away.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430209#Comment_122430209

sustainable aviation fuel and biomass are just greenwashing.

Citation needed.

This isn't true.

faceman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430209#Comment_122430209

You pretty did suggest banning flying and "shaming people who wish to move abroad". A deplorable suggestion.

Again, you have your head in the sand. Flying isn't going away. Tackling climate change downstream won't work. I dont know how old you are, but if you were around during the ozone layer crisis, thats a great example of what can happen when issues are tackled upstream.

Spouting pointless statistics on who does and doesn't fly means nothing, further undermined by the insults you are throwing at people.

You are part of the climate problem, not the solution. Im not engaging with you any further. Have a nice weekend.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430478#Comment_122430478

Schuuussshh.. don't look over there look here whilst I shame you for travelling by air, as a fleet of aging oil tankers ship millions of tonnes of illegal oil around the world.. and sometimes have collisions that spill 100's of tonnes of crude into the ocean…

https://thediplomat.com/2023/07/malaysia-and-the-dark-fleet/

Geuze

Share price back up to 15, from the dip to 13.60.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430355#Comment_122430355

I’d like to see the additional carbon cost of ESG functions being factored in. The internal ones rarely function in a manner to reduce use of natural resources, including water as well as energy. That ends up being effected by actual functionaries. ESG internal functions seem to be as functional as human remains departments.

Cookiemunster

Record passengers numbers for July.

https://twitter.com/RyanairPress/status/1819281596014358646?t=s6jAn2f0pr8uJmmiBRV-1Q&s=19

flyer_query

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430313#Comment_122430313

Is the Concorde back? Your flight is 1hr 50 plus 1 hour time difference.