(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492494#Comment_122492494

We'll agree to disagree. This is a post I asked one user from "the other side" last night, they ignored the request. I wasn't surprised.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489433#Comment_122489433

I believe in robust conversations, but you don't have to be a dick about it.

But I also believe that if you go into someone's house, you respect their rules.

You wouldn't stay in a vegetarian friends house, wake up, run to the shops to buy a pack of rashers to cook in their kitchen, because you always start the day with a bacon sandwich, would you?

If the rules of the fora are laid out clearly (which they are not right now) you can either agree to them and enter, or disagree and leave.

Boards.ie owes no-one anything. You are not entitled to post here. Boards doesn't have to facilitate every discussion.

The internet is a big place with room for everyone, including those with "unpleasant views".

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492380#Comment_122492380

Would be nice if Boards senior influencers gave us more to talk about here that the ambidextrous debate the thread is being dominated by.

But alas, they have so far failed to do so.

suvigirl

Beasty has just confirmed on another thread that there is an issue with reported posts not showing up. So any posts that remain in thread, when they obviously shouldn't, are not being reported to mods even when multiple posters report them

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492618#Comment_122492618

If people post these extremist views at least you can counter them, censorship won't change their minds, it will entrench them if anything.

What if these "unpleasant views" were suddenly held by a majority of the population and there was an attempt to silence you, would that stop you holding your beliefs?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492496#Comment_122492496

I've offered example charters.

I've suggested the rules are not clear.

I've used my past experiences to explain how and why I feel that boards needs to change.

I asked you which of the sections of the charter I proposed you would allow. You ignored the request.

What have you brought to this thread, as it appears we can now hold each other to account?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492624#Comment_122492624

You have stated in this post that the rules are not clearly stated, but you are trying to impose your own. That's my point, neither I, you, or any vegetarian friends we may or may not have, get to dictate what can or can't be discussed.

If some opinions or topics are expressly forbidden that will obviously dictate what can be posted, but individual posters shouldn't try to block opinions they dislike.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492638#Comment_122492638

To clarify that, it's only found to be have affected one set of reported posts, not all of them. It's the same bug that's been affecting longer threads that's been going on for the last couple of months.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492638#Comment_122492638

Do you think posts in this thread should be deleted?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492576#Comment_122492576

What's unpleasant to one person might be a perfectly reasonable to another person

This is why what is unpleasant here on boards.ie needs to be clarified.

As for your transphobia remark, I would disagree vehemently.

If transphobia is banned, as it should be, it should be banned completely. To take your example one step to the side, there are many people who believe that homosexuality is against nature. I dont think they should be allowed try and have that discussion here.

Another step to the side, you have people that hold the opinion that Jewish people only care about money and control the worlds supply. They also should not be allowed have that discussion here.

I feel the same way about people who feel biological sex trumps gender beliefs.

This is what I've been discussing. It's all part of boards identity. What is boards identity nowadays?

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492638#Comment_122492638

What posts in this thread were worthy of being reported? Genuinely it's been quite civil.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492706#Comment_122492706

I'm not trying to impose anything. I am merely a user pointing out that one of the reasons boards is not as good as it could be is that the rules are not clear. I think the site would be better if the rules were made clearer.

I don't think you understand my point about the vegetarian friend.

If boards were to adopt "my charter"* which items would you have an issue with?

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*They won't, so you can relax. I just want to see where you're coming from and why you'd have an issue with clearing up rules.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492638#Comment_122492638

Is boards overdue a few maintenance updates? I was hoping they'd fix the twitter/X links but I won't hold my breath.

Also had an issue yesterday after I tagged you and things went crazy.

Another issue is not making it easy to multi quote the way other forums do.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492655#Comment_122492655

Why will censorship lead people to having entrenched views?

And this isn't about changing who necessarily have strong beliefs, as you say they typically don't change. I don't post to counter Nullzero's (or anyone else's) opinion thinking their going to change, I post so others reading can see an alternative to that opinion.

This is about what becomes the predominant narrative that appears in the public discourse. The vast majority of those rioting throughout the UK in recent UK's wouldn't engage in a cogent discussion about political ideologies and influence I would strongly expect.

But they are influenced by people who can. The Nigel Farage's, Tommy Robinsons, et al. There's really only the same 30-50 posters who post in political topics on here in a meaningful way, but I suspect many hundreds and in to the thousands of people drop in to those threads from time to time. I'm generally inclined to not leave such threads so that they can appear that what to most engaged people might be clear to be an 'unpleasant view' but to a causal reader, open to influence, might come across as a common opinion.

In my view, this is how these unpleasant views have grown in recent years. Key influencers pushing narratives, certain cohorts of the published and internet media lighting a fire under them and an often unsuspecting public having their opinions formed by it.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492798#Comment_122492798

I've no problem with clearing up rules, or people giving suggestions for same, but you and others are very specific about what topics you think should and shouldn't be allowed.

It won't be much of a discussion site if many topical issues are banned. Is that what you want?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492804#Comment_122492804

But people hold those views, this is a discussion site, whether you agree with them or not they should be open for debate.

Censorship can entrench views because you get the simplistic "they're trying to silence me because they know I'm right" result.

OscarMIlde

If someone posts a general statement that all jews or all muslims believe x, y or z, that is obviously racist and should be banned. If they post an opinion about aspects of a culture, religion or nationality that makes it clear that they don't believe that all people within that group necessarily fit that belief that should be allowed. If I said all Jews hate Muslims that's a sweeping, sectarian statement and should be actioned. If I said I disapproved of dehumanising rhetoric regarding Palestinians in Israel, that wouldn't be racist and could easily be countered by another poster highlighting opposition to these views within the state of Israel and a debate can be had and no mod action is needed. If you agree with the latter post then agree, if you disagree then disagree.

Same with trans issues. If I said all trans people this, that or the other that is a sweeping generalisation and should be banned. If I say I worry about the effect of puberty blockers on later health that is not a derogatory statement and is an opinion that can be debated and argued against in good faith. Simply shutting down opinions you disagree with is ridiculous. Eugenics used to be seen as progressive movement, nowadays it is seen as racist pseudoscience. Twenty years ago the concept of gay marriage would have been seen as outlandish by many people yet this country overwhelmingly voted in favour of it several years ago. What's considered transphobic ten years ago differs from what is considered transphobic today and likely will differ again in another ten years. No one side should shut down debate if the debate is honestly and genuinely argued in good faith.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492828#Comment_122492828

Why does that matter though? No one needs to indulge racists/transphobes.

The Wokeism of the Day thread was a perfect example. When it was shut down, there was mayhem, but while it was supposed to be lighthearted, it was just used to promote anti Trans Agendas.

And without going onto the CA kind of stuff referred to here, it seems to have only got worse.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492828#Comment_122492828

But people hold those views

So what? There are views that are hateful and lead to people being targeted and mistreated often leading to violence. Should nazi ideology be permitted just because some hold the view that it is correct?

And again, I'm talking about the people who are influenced by those who hold those views, more so than the original source of the view itself, which is often very entrenched.

And before we go further, I haven't called for any curtailing of discussions on here. I absolutely think some views are unacceptable for free and open publication such as Nazi ideology mentioned above. I have been on this thread, and the last one, very clear that I recognize there are people who hold what I consider are unpleasant views and I would like to be able to challenge them in a more direct fashion than Boards allows rather than stopping them entirely.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492818#Comment_122492818

Why? As I said in the charter suggestion I put forward, if you cant have a conversation without breaking those rules, you need to work on your conversation skills.

We survived here for years, and the site prospered, with much stricter moderation than what we have now.

I refuse to accept, "well, that's just the way the internet is nowadays" as an excuse.

I think I blame Kamala for giving me some hope and optimism that things can change for the better 🤣

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492842#Comment_122492842

Because no matter how much people stamp their feet and declare their opinions and beliefs are the correct ones there will be people with opposing beliefs who will do the same.

Both sides should be able to engage and debate. To block one side is censorship.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492828#Comment_122492828

People can hold whatever views they want. Boards doesn't have to publish them though.

Like I said, if this site is only a discussion site, it lost its USP, which was its sense of community. And with the awful software we're dealing with, one of the worst ones around.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492852#Comment_122492852

Do you think calling for say the stopping of fossil oil exploration, and calling for rolling back Trans rights are the same thing, only on opposing sides of the political spectrum?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122491905#Comment_122491905

Agree .

This shift consensus , I feel , affected moderation after the last feedback thread with so many right wing posters spreading misinformation about posters who were posting in good faith and trying to combat some of the more extreme rhetoric . Attempts to label posters as' low level trolls ' for reporting racism and hate. This has resulted in a free for all echo chamber in the one remaining asylum thread for example .

It's not bowing down to a vocal minority we need from moderation , but living up to the higher ideal of not becoming yet another clone of FB , X , Telegram etc , and safeguarding the community spirit here where people can express their views but without hate or prejuduce and with civility and respect .

The Boards community need to step up as well in support of our volunteer moderators . Report those breaking the rules and step up in support of more moderate posters on threads that are "difficult " like those more right wing subjects on CA . Posters need to become inbolved in these threads , so those who persist in unacceptable posting are publicly called out and sanctioned .

I asked for help on a left wing thread a while back for the small few centre left and left posters posting on the immigration and asylum threads , trying to combat racist misinformation etc on the immigration thread, and getting a bit overwhelmed , to be told by a senior poster on left side of the debate that those threads were a cesspit and they would not go there .

Thats fair enough , I agree they are the pits . But that means you leave a platform open for all sorts of unacceptable views , not talking regular right wing here , but really nasty far right stuff , the like that would make you want to step into the shower after a " discussion " .

But if that is the prevailing attitude of long time very prolific posters on the site , don't blame the mods for the proliferation of far right views that are spreading down through current affairs .

All racism and misinformation should be called out and / or reported . That is all of our collective responsibility . The actions of mods thereafter is really for the mods .

If this sounds like more work than people want , ok then, but no point complaining when more people leave the site or it becomes something that none of us envisaged or wanted .

I don't want to be buying boards mugs and t shirts if I am ashamed of the stuff being posted here on a regular basis. Lets sort that first .

Btw @Tell me how, kudos to you for the thread and your posts . May not always agree with everything you say but that doesn't mean I don't think it is worth consideration .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492235#Comment_122492235

Leg, take a step in , please , to some of those threads and in a few months you can come back and tell us how moderate some of those posts are !

There are a host of moderate posters but yet the ones that garner the most attention and frankly take over are worthy of the Steve Bannons and Tommy Robinson's of this world .

I really don't get why some of the more moderate right wing posters do not see why there is such a threat from posts / posters of this nature . They regularly say don't label everyone FAR right , but hey , if you are thanking posts with videos far right axxholes screaming abuse at someone who has a foreign accent / different skin colour , you are supporting it . Regardless of what you think of the housing situation , the government the opposition or the EU .

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492849#Comment_122492849

If transphobia is banned, as it should be, it should be banned completely.

I'm not trying to impose anything.

Here's two excerpts from two of your posts. You are dictating what should and shouldn't be allowed no matter how much you deny it. I haven't said "that's just how the internet is nowadays", but these issues and opinions are held by some and they should be open for debate.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492848#Comment_122492848

Nazi ideology?

I cannot think of a single user on this site who has anything approaching Nazi ideology or defends Nazi ideology.

You're using emotive language to try to pressure boards to acquiesce to what you want the site to become.

You're masquerading as somebody looking to improve the site when in reality you're trying to crowbar your opinions and beliefs into the fabric of the site.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492865#Comment_122492865

I'm not on either side of the argument, my whole point is that individuals shouldn't be dictating what is or isn't an acceptable opinion. I'm not a political person, and my opinions on fossil fuels and trans right are irrelevant to the point I'm making.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492842#Comment_122492842

Who decides what is racist or transphobic however. A poster earlier on this thread stated that anyone using the term 'illegal immigrant' should be banned as there is no such thing as illegal immigration only genuine asylum seekers. That to me would be an extreme view but that poster seems to sincerely hold it. I'm sure many posters on boards disagree with that statement. Who decides which viewpoint is correct and can be discussed and what viewpoints are incorrect and can not be discussed.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492877#Comment_122492877

Stop. Those who go this far are sanctioned and the posts deleted. That doesn't mean that the site is free of them. I've reported some of them myself over the years.

And you can stop also claiming the use of emotive language to influence Boards, you spent last night suggesting mods should step in when too many people respond to you.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492872#Comment_122492872

I feel for you trying to keep up with the pile on you're experiencing.

It's a horrible facet of boards in recent times and the same people are engaging in it with you that were doing the same to me yesterday.

If they really want to improve the site they'd knock it the hell off and stop rationalising it to themselves. It's an ugly thing to witness

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492852#Comment_122492852

Not sure what you mean by stamp their feet? There was absolute tantrums thrown when the Wokesim of the Day was closed as it did not suit their Agenda.

Racism / transphobia is illegal and engaging with racists / transphobes is a waste of time so denying them a platform is the best way of closing them down in my opinion.