(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

nachouser

I think you can see part of the problem with the recent thread about the attack on Fr. Murphy in Galway. Posters practically salivating with hope that the attacker is of an immigrant background.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511085#Comment_122511085

Aye. They were straight in with it.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511085#Comment_122511085

It's back to some of the feedback here. Don't censor people - debate with them. I mean, free speech and all that?

Clear example of how this would not work.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511224#Comment_122511224

Boards.ie does not have to grant free speech, or even a platform, if it desires to.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511085#Comment_122511085

Yep, thread basically can't operate cause it will become viciously agendaic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509655#Comment_122509655

I would have previously have been somewhat active on Twitter and had my name and face to see. But as the site became more aggressive, I had to pretty much expunge my identity. Similarly my old account from here is long gone cause I'd be identifiable. Even in Ireland, there's plenty of people that want to doxx individuals. Equally I know of a guy who went extremely right wing and he's stalked people that I know in real life cause he got obsessed with their social media profiles. So the dangers are getting worse and worse.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511282#Comment_122511282

Yeah, same here. I used to use this handle for more than just Boards but I changed my other account names so it should no longer be an issue.

Safety first and you really can't be too careful nowadays. It's sad but it also is what it is. I've gotten advice, and high quality advice from people in their fields at that, from building my PC to CV/interview advice to travel advice and God knows what else, all good.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511233#Comment_122511233

Comment went up before I finished.

Some of the feedback here calls for allowing these views and debating with them. That thread clearly demonstrates why this would be completely futile, plus a huge waste of Mods time.

Boggles

I imagine it won't be much longer before the site throws back a permanent 404 error and that will be it without official warning.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511224#Comment_122511224

Except what was suggested was to allow discussion of different beliefs, but not hate speech.

That thread is full of hate speech, there is a difference. Maybe permanently ban those posters from CA and let the others get on with it?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511555#Comment_122511555

There are more than that thread full of hate speech/or nuanced borderline hate speech. These people aren't stupid, they know how to post just enough to get the point across without breaking rules.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511570#Comment_122511570

Yes, but the same is true of those with opposing opinions. That, in itself, was demonstrated on this very thread.

I think people are interpreting my posts as advocating for a free for all, I'm just suggesting allowing discussion of moderate opinions from all sides, I don't condone hate speech.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511582#Comment_122511582

But can you really play the 'Both sides' game when one side is quite explicitly expressing hatred for entire groups and the other is what, calling them out on that?

Isn't there a part of this that's like trying to decide if flat earthers and scientists should be viewed as equals but opposites?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511582#Comment_122511582

I have no issues with free speech, it's the hate speech that I don't believe that Boards should become a vehicle for it.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511570#Comment_122511570

If anything, they are more dangerous, hiding in plain sight.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511595#Comment_122511595

Both sides believe their views are the correct views and never the twain shall meet.

Why does one side get to have a say in what can and can't be discussed? *Hate speech excluded.

Both think they're right, but have either side got definitive evidence to prove it? I'm not just talking about political ideology here.

A facile example - I paint my living room bright red and I love it. Am I right if I dictate everyone should paint their living room bright red and every other colour is wrong?

(My living room isn't painted bright red)

Leg End Reject

I haven't argued for hate speech to be allowed though, my more moderate views just seem to have been interpreted that way though.

ETA - this was in response to @suvigirl, the quote function failed

nachouser

The thread has been re-opened and, it'll just continue down the sewer.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511742#Comment_122511742

Both sides believe their views are the correct views and never the twain shall meet.

I think you miss the point, look at the content, not just the default premise that one side is right or wrong. There's always going to be people on both sides of a topic, to some degree. But that doesn't mean you equally accept the right of both sides to express their opinion just because you can't deny them that right.

The crux of the matter is the message being expressed. I've consistently agued that this messaging exists in society and that it has an impact. I find the messaging of lots of right wing voices as being problematic. Donald Trump talking about sh*t hole countries, Tommy Robinson talking about dangerous religions, Conor McGregor talking about 'our country' being taken over. And very large and powerful media platforms have helped communicate this message.

Donald Trump inacted a travel ban from these countries he had referred to, Tommy Robinson would happily see a ban on immigration of muslims to the UK, Conor McGregor would happily see refugees in Ireland deported without question. And we've seen an impact in each of the countries where these people live where people who supported the people I've quoted have reacted in various ways that have been unpleasant (and that's an understatement).

What is the Left wing message that results in equally problematic rhetoric that has risen to similarly unpleasant outcomes? Bernie Sanders calling for access to healthcare? Jeremy Vine calling for cycling infrastructure? Hazel Chu calling for compassion for refugees?

I've no doubt you have individual voices that are problematic on both sides if you want to go looking for them, but I'm talking about the growing narrative that exists in society.

Which, for example is more problematic, the voices calling for deporting all migrants from the UK, or the voices calling for Just Stop Oil. I personally think its a cop out to say both sides should be treated equally when what both sides are doing are not the same thing.

Some people thing I've complete drank the Left Wing cool aid but that couldn't be further from the truth. I was a completely against Corbyns style of opposition to Brexit, I'm also completely repulsed by Biden's stance and actions on Gaza and I'm not foolish enough to think you can legislate people in to acceptance of your position. That will only lead to opposition and revolution. But as I have said before, I believe those of us who want a better society, need to advocate for that society, not just silently hope it comes about. And so debate is important. But that isn't a blank cheque for anyone to say just anything and when they cross a line, they should be held accountable.

nachouser

Odds on the Fr. Murphy thread being closed again before midnight:-)

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511555#Comment_122511555

Suggested by who?

There are people here who clearly want to be able to say what they like, because they dont see their different beliefs as hate speech.

They are active on the other thread currently.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511758#Comment_122511758

Yep, posts accusing boards of being filled with NGO workers and some blatant speculation that would not ordinarily be allowed in this kind of scenario.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122512299#Comment_122512299

I don’t think it’s that, exactly. Maybe it’s just that some people want to say what they like about “certain” other people, say trans people.

There’d still use nuance to disguise racism, and anti immigration, opinions but they might want to be a bit more “blatant” when it comes to that, you know?

nullzero

Is there any actual feedback here beyond the proposed blanket ban of anyone perceived to be to the right of Paul Murphy?

Collie D

Haven’t followed this thread so it’s probably been mentioned multiple times already.

The endless back and forth from both ends of the political spectrum. It’s like a spillover from American Twitter feeds and gets irritating. It’s all just them and us. I genuinely hope that real life hasn’t gotten like this over the last few years.

The thread on the chaplain being stabbed in Galway is a perfect example. A story lots will be interested in and a few years ago Boards would have been a good place to follow it but now it’s a mess of personality or agenda driven posting.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511905#Comment_122511905

You're missing where I said don't allow hate speech.

Not everyone who isn't far left has "problematic views", not everyone is calling for mass deportation etc.

There is plenty of middle ground if people weren't so entrenched in their views and the belief that they're right.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122512856#Comment_122512856

That sounds great, but in practice if non-hateful discussion regarding gender is not allowed because someone deems that 'questioning something existence' than the site is no longer inclusive. It's simply shutting down one view in favour of another.

You may think that's fine but for me as a woman I think that would be a disgrace. I don't see anything warm and welcoming about not allowing women, men or trans people discuss possible impacts of trans rights activism on trans people themselves (health and mental health), on women (safeguarding in vulnerable places, fair play in sports) or just annoyance at the sheer Orwellian language or regressive gender norms promoted by some activists (people with cervixes, girls like pink, dresses!). There isn't even a consensus amongst trans people about these things, so how does boards.ie decide which of the current ideological orthodoxies is correct.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511085#Comment_122511085

I think that's one of the biggest reasons why Boards is not doing well. It's always the same posters arguing with each other, and then blaming the moderators for being biased. Meanwhile anyone else wishing to discuss current affairs will stay the hell away.

You can't even say "ban hate speech" without the usual suspects starting endless spins about what should be classified as hate speech.

Flaneur OBrien

Apt meme time!

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122512970#Comment_122512970

If we start questioning one person's existence, can we question them all?

Would it be ok to suggest there's no such thing as gayness, just people that haven't met the right person of the opposite gender?

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122512990#Comment_122512990

I mean the supposed lack of existence of any discrete biological definition of a woman has been stated on boards many times by pro gender idealogues despite this being refuted by other posters. No one has ever been sanctioned for that. Why are trans people so sacred in your eyes. As long as speech is not hateful why shouldn't discussion be allowed. And to be fair boards does allow discussions but slurs like TERF are allowed to be posted freely, despite it being used to mock and slur women who have the temerity to have ideas about the realties of their biological sex differences from men.