(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

Sudden Valley

To be honest those problems are only in CA/AHs. Politics is always divisive hence that absolute hatred of those with opposite views that you see manifested in some politically charged threads that leads to so many bans.

I think most posters are friendly and respectful when they are not posting in CA/AH.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475464#Comment_122475464

One example does not sink the whole argument.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475534#Comment_122475534

It does far more than you woud like to admit.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475539#Comment_122475539

Sorry to disagree, but no, it doesn't. But I'm not here to argue with you about it on the basis of one poor example.

I've both experienced mod bias, and witnessed it myself. I don't require you or anyone else to validate that it exists for me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475570#Comment_122475570

That someone would think that example was an example of mod bias points to why many people get threadbanned and don't have a bulls notion of why - but manage to frame it in their head as persecution.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475066#Comment_122475066

You just missed what I said .

I was saying less criticism of the few overworked and under resourced mods , not of the site as a whole .

Constructive criticism like that going on here and in the original thread generally is a catalyst for positive change and I am as disappointed as you that we have not heard more about what the mods think. I can only assume they are run off their feet trying to keep up with the site .

Of course if they were being paid to do the job at hand , criticism directed at them would be fair enough .But they are not .

They are volunteering their free time to patrol and try to keep the site civil and regulated which is practically heroic under present day conditions !

And that is why I think if we want Boards to continue as a group and to become again a community it is down to all of the regular posters here to help by reporting and supporting the site . This does not mean tolerating bad service as in Vanilla, threadbans that are unexplained or not warranted etc but it may mean more people volunteering to moderate from all sides of the debate to try to take the pressure off one or two fora .

I don't know why there are not more mods on CA . I said this on the original feedback thread . This appears to be the most contentious and more prone to reregging by trolls and banned posters who couldn't give a f if the site goes down in flames as long as they stir up any trouble that they can .

When people post just to cause trouble I wonder why they are posting here , why they don't just post on another site where there are less rules and moderation ?

(Again please do not take any of this personally .I disagree with how you say you think CA needs less moderation but I respectfully do so because it appears to me to be a genuine argument in good faith and is appreciated as such )

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475672#Comment_122475672

If we're talking about the comments on the Enoch Burke thread, it wasn't given as an example of mod bias against a poster, it was given as an example of mod bias around a particular subject.

Both types of bias exist, and frankly, anyone who thinks it doesn't or minimises the extent of it on this site, needs to open their eyes.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122476589#Comment_122476589

It's very hard to be supportive of mods, when they act unfairly. 🤷

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122476589#Comment_122476589

No, I'm pretty sure I get you; The mods are doing their best and should be supported.

I no longer can just simply agree with that.

One of the comments that really struck me on the original thread was by a Mod (Who I understand is no longer modding) that when someone is banned, the poster is 100% to blame, not the mod. And it struck as an incredibly dictatorial mindset from someone in such a role to say in that manner on a feedback thread. And I have posted previously of how I feel the most senior mod here enjoys the environment in which they now operate and if they didn't we would have long seen movement towards what we are asking for.

It's 3 years now since the change from Vanilla I applauded that mod in particular for the efforts in the first 6 months after the change over when it was a sh*tshow, I bit my tongue for the next 12 months, for the next 12 month period I grew more and more frustrated but didn't say much about it, and here in the last 6 months I've posted on these 2 threads pretty vocally about how frustrated I am with the unchanging environment.

I don't think this place can function without mods, I don't think it is feasible to pay mods, I think there should be way more support for the mods. But the site has to come up with a way of promoting these things instead of just saying 'We're doing the best we can' and thinking that is enough. I'm saying all of this because of what I believe Boards could be, I know the way the internet has changed but also feel that if anything it is possible that things could flip where at least some people become disillusioned with the 'shouting from the window of a speeding car' type conversation that much of it is and would appreciate what can be a more genteel place. What we see on Twitter/Instagram/TikTok and the likes isn't discussion, it is the water cannoning of ideologies and ideas or positions to try to overwhelm others. This could still be a place for discussion.

Also, I wasn't suggesting all of CA become unmodded, the forum could serve a function but that maybe a place 'to literally corral the particularly forceful posters' could be cordoned off for this purpose. Call it 'The Dungeon' or whatever. It was my attempt at an idea and ideas are something that are in painfully short supply around here I feel.

Ha Long Bay

This is the kind of posting that is driving people away.

Two "new" posters who are on the site for a few hours.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122474957#Comment_122474957

There are others who try to count how many posts others report and they are labelled some kind of “snitch”.

My take on it is that reports won’t be actioned unless they are actionable and that people doing spurious reporting would be wasting their own time ultimately

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122476932#Comment_122476932

Be far worse if they weren't there at all like other sites .

I don't think its perfect like I said previously but it is not as bad as being painted , else , why are we all here ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122476981#Comment_122476981

I have had my moments too ....those who have never had are posting in non contentious threads or are saints or are just much cleverer than me . Not sure which .

I get what you are saying but I cannot agree with "coralling them in one area " .

That is exactly what appears to happening on one thread on CA where the only few moderate posters are down to a handful of saints as described above who can handle the absolute dregs of posts and trolls which may probably get Boards in trouble yet with some of the dross being posted * ...but thats my opinion .

The rest of us are too hot headed to handle it and have been eventually banned .

Is that the sort of "coralling " you are talking about ?

Moderate posters will go to different threads but it casts a long shadow .

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122477125#Comment_122477125

I think a lot are still here out of habit (including myself). I opened my original account in 2006, so I am aware of what the site used to be like. I personally don't use X or Reddit or any other social media, I prefer this kind of format, and it doesn't really exist anywhere else now.

I can't agree with your opinion that it's not as bad as its being painted - I think it's actually worse, and despite multiple threads on it now, its not visibly improving despite promises being made. So we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122477215#Comment_122477215

Fair enough .

We have agreed on more so I'll take that !

I haven't been active on the threads you guys have been talking about here so can't comment specifically .

By the way your other post didn't come up on my notifications at all ..just checked only this last one . Thats another issue.. all the glitches .

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122477010#Comment_122477010

They are obviously trolls and should reported and ignored.

A few hours is not a long time considering the forum has two mods who I am assuming work and have a personal life.

I believe if their was a will, that a few more mods could be added very quickly.

What I have read in the past makes it look like they go out of their way to make it difficult to recruit new mods.

The only way to have those trolls removed quickly is more mods, but it looks like their is not the will to go and find more.

Their have been two mods for what seems like years, I don't see why unless they don't want mods, that none have been added.

Witcher

There are now five threads on immigration/islam just on the front page of CA alone, perhaps some effort could be made to consolidate them so the whole forum isn't taken up with it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058363469/islamists-planning-terror-attack-at-taylor-swift-concert-force-cancellation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362464/robust-new-policing-announced-in-the-uk-threadbans-in-op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058281647/time-for-a-zero-refugee-policy-read-op-for-mod-warnings-and-threadbans-updated-11-5-24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058087687/what-are-your-views-on-multiculturalism-in-ireland-threadbanned-user-list-in-op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213408/should-we-in-ireland-be-concerned-about-jihad

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478879#Comment_122478879

and four on US politics.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478879#Comment_122478879

Thats a good point. Creating new threads similar to old ones is also a tactic from some posters to evade thread bans. Unfortunately I could see the other side of the argument that some of the threads you mention are related to immigration in general while others are related to specific current events.

Some posters are only interested in transgender issues or immigration and will try to have as many threads going on those issues at the same time.

Arghus

I can see why it's very difficult to recruit mods.

It's a volunteer position where you have to give up your own time to do it.

Don't get involved - people think you are doing a bad job.

Get involved - people think you are doing a bad job.

It might be one thing to mod some areas of the site that are less busy or fractious, but you'd want the patience of a saint to do it in CA. No matter what you do there'll be some people annoyed at you.

It's a lot to ask. And that goes without people getting aggressive or threatening to doxx you, or whatever. That wouldn't be worth it for the vast majority of people.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479878#Comment_122479878

Completely agree.

That's why the site needs to proactively tackle this, not just leave all the weight on the shoulders of a few.

There's parts of the site now with effectively no moderation and that is also an issue because even though traffic and conflict is much less, you can end up banned for something in CA that is supposedly a site wide rule but is never acted on in other areas. That inconsistency adds to the frustration.

Irish Aris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479936#Comment_122479936

You make a fair point. I think though that Current Affairs is a different beast than the rest of the site.

An example for me would be the music forum mainly the gigs section. Posters will occasionally argue with each other, getting close to attack the poster territory. But after a bit of back and forth we kind of self moderate and the discussion moves on. Impossible for this to happen in CA, where the same arguments are done ad nauseam and subjects are much more likely to create tensions.

We have a discussion around the Soccer Forum and whether it should open to all, not being private/a group. I expressed an opinion that's pretty much on the fence - frankly though the idea that it could turn into CA would be reason enough to keep it as is.

nachouser

Create a bunch of generic mod accounts; CA mod 1, CA mod 2 etc. Share the login details with those current mods willing to give 30 mins or whatever to mod CA. When a warning / thread ban is applied, advise that pms are not monitered and wont be replied to.

It's completely generic, saves time without the back and forth pms, and you'd look like a right clown to claim "CA mod 6 is totally biased against me."

Outside of CA, mods use their regular accounts as normal.

No DRP for anything in CA.

Flaneur OBrien

Any admin or anything going to say anything?

expectationlost

the lack of in thread search is big problem, main reason I don't participate in long political/current affairs threads here anymore, you cant search to see if somebody has already said what you want to talk about

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480039#Comment_122480039

When you share login details, you have zero accountability, as no one knows who did what. Not a great idea.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480302#Comment_122480302

How then can the bias accusation be dealt with? It seems a lot of posters just think certain mods are biased against them. That situation doesnt really work for either mods or posters.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480323#Comment_122480323

A decent system would allow mods to mod without their identities being visible to users, but Vanilla doesn't support this.

Irish Aris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480332#Comment_122480332

You mean something like incognito?

If so, wouldn't that remove the option to dispute? Or the dispute resolution would also need an update.

AndrewJRenko

The dispute resolution process would indeed need to change.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478879#Comment_122478879

The zero refugee policy thread currently has 78 threadbanned users.

If you consolidate any other discussions into one thread including that thread you're telling more than half the CA forums active users that they can't comment on anything related to those topics, not exactly a recipe for saving boards from being a graveyard.

Threadbans should have a maximum term set (say three months for example) with any new offences incurring something like a one month forum ban.

Currently busy threads end up with the majority of people banned and rereg accounts popping up all over the place.

A new approach is needed, thinking caps time.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480039#Comment_122480039

I can't see how that would work because (a) the dispute resolution process should always be an option and (b) the first rule of dispute resolution is to PM the mod who issued the warning / ban. If it's a generic account, who would pick it up?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122477021#Comment_122477021

The issue isn't with snitching, this isn't the playground or school.

It's the continuous reporting of posts that disagree with others to control the narrative by getting the poster with the minority opinion threadbanned or site banned. We all know that most mod actions now are responding to reported posts.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480364#Comment_122480364

Perhaps it is better to combine the two approaches; have bans limited to a certain period of time but a poster can't just be banned from a thread and then just start posting in a similar thread. Otherwise the poster is not penalised at all for breaking the rules. And that antagonises posters who post within the rules.

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480364#Comment_122480364

If people have found themselves on a threadban list because of their behaviour they'd be better off reflecting on their posting instead of complaining they wouldn't be allowed to contribute.

As I said in an earlier post, threadbans should be done away with. If you're being threadbanned you're in breach of the forum rules therefore you should be removed from the forum in its entirety for a period of time.

The current situation of having 4-5 threads on the same topic negates any effect threadbans had, if they ever had any at all. It's like taking a Playstation off a child and sending them to their room where they have an Xbox.

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480302#Comment_122480302

Fair enough. I just think there should be a more clinical way to mod CA that doesn't turn it into a complete time sink for mods. It's the wild west of the site. Treat it that way. It's how moderation is done on pretty much every other site that allows comments.

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480377#Comment_122480377

The suggestion was just for CA. Scrap DRP for CA and accept that we're all adults and sometimes a bit of tough love is needed. Most going to DRP are complete time sink posters.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480403#Comment_122480403

That's some rabbit hole you have gone down.

"We all know" meaning you think.

The mods being on a mission to ban minority opinions seems to be failing miserably. Funny that

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480406#Comment_122480406

As I said in an earlier post, threadbans should be done away with. If you're being threadbanned you're in breach of the forum rules therefore you should be removed from the forum in its entirety for a period of time.

On this point, I don't think that is always the case.

I've seen it happen where a mod has come up with a completely new and seemingly spurious "rule" on the spot, and used it to warn / threadban.

Or the mod is just in a bad mood.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480505#Comment_122480505

Beasty said it in another thread, so yes, we do know.

ETA - I didn't say mods are on a mission to ban minority opinions, but they respond to reported posts rather than read every post in every thread. Perhaps reread my post.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480406#Comment_122480406

I often forget what threads I've been threadbanned from, so either get rid of them, or get the system to enforce them.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480512#Comment_122480512

Isn't that what the DRP is supposed to address? Banned posters shouldn't be able to post on similar threads on the assumption that the mod has got it wrong with the original ban.

Some posters accept their bans what others just seem to think the mods are out to get them.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480406#Comment_122480406

I don't believe this is necessarily true.

If a post is reported as being 'off topic ' the mod responds to that post, really the post should be read along with any posts it replies to. 'off topic posting ' alone, seems a very weak and unfair way to threadban a poster

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480585#Comment_122480585

I was commenting on the suggestion that DRP should not apply to the CA forum.

But I agree it shouldn't be allowed to post on another thread to avoid a threadban somewhere else on the same topic.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480598#Comment_122480598

As I said in original thread the obsession with sticking rigidly to a topic needs to be dropped too. Conversations and discussions meander in real life, and current affairs are frequently linked to other issues, they don't exist in a vacuum.

Sephiroth_dude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480512#Comment_122480512

Wow 🙄 how would you know if a mod was in bad mood or not?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480649#Comment_122480649

It's not that hard to tell.

There was one ex-mod in particular who used to get openly frustrated, and it came across loud and clear in their comments on thread.

JP Liz V1

I'm curious has a mod ever overturned another mod's action as in cancel warnings or overturned a banning, it is just it is another mod that reviews in dispute resolutions, also can a mod sanction another mod or is Mike the final boss?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480726#Comment_122480726

Open to correction on this, but I think its only a CMod or Admin who reverse another mod's warning or ban, and only if the poster takes to dispute resolution - which in itself is a ridiculously complicated process.

I think the chain of command is Mod > CMod > Admin > Mike.

nachouser

At the very least, is it possible, given the limitations of Vanilla, to allow existing non-CA mods to deal with zapping obviously bad faith re-reg accounts in CA without having to wait for the current couple of CA mods to be online and deal with it?

Irish Aris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480726#Comment_122480726

It was definitely happening before Vanilla - probably not very often and in some cases it was a downgrade of duration, not always a straight overturn.

TBH I don't recall if threadbans existed before Vanilla. The fact that they are not technically enforceable makes them an honour's system (or people reporting that a threadbanned user still posts on thread). I also wonder: does a user get a notification that they are threadbanned (other than the in-thread mode message)?