"Last Supper" depiction at Olympics Opening Ceremony

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449770#Comment_122449770

read this a few days ago...

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449770#Comment_122449770

What's wrong with that is (a) the drag artists weren't depicting gay men and (b) you likened them to "something you'd see in the red light district" in Berlin.

A red light district being an urban area where sex workers work.

If you don't see anything wrong about either of those things then I can't help you.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122449770#Comment_122449770

That was meant to be a depiction of gay men?

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450196#Comment_122450196

While I'm delighted you didn't see the Drag Queens as 'gay men', neither do I, unfortunately the public perception is that drag queens are gay men. A poster earlier stated that's what he believed Drag Queens to be.

I don't know what the producer would mean when they say Drag Queen's represents diversity if he didn't mean it to refer to gay male culture because if it's not that what diversity does he mean to represent? They're not saying a drag queen is a type of person..are they? I doubt anyone could think anything that bonkers so I think it's safe to assume the intention of the producer was to represent gay men in the form a of Drag Queens, no?

By red light district I just meant the part of town where you'll find a lot of sex drugs and rock 'n roll (or in the case of gay area's, Kylie).

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450501#Comment_122450501

"I had in mind that gay men would not be happy being depicted as they were depicted in the sketch…."

That is a direct quote from your post, where you directly referenced what you were thinking.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122448430#Comment_122448430

it all seems predictable so not offended wither way , the Olympic organizers didnt read the room so its on them, the Olympics is being sold to a global audience so that means it should impress people from central Africa to China and India so they failed in PR terms in that regard

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450196#Comment_122450196

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450279#Comment_122450279

Isn't it odd that the defence that drag is not offensive to gay men because "it doesn't depict gay men" doesn't lead those same people to conclude that drag is offensive to women?

It really seems to be a case of "Who cares, it's only women so it's fine to mock them".

Ezeoul

OMG. Drag artists are not mocking women, it is performance art! The purpose is not to mock anyone.

I am a woman and am certainly not offended by drag queens or feel mocked by them.

Sashay, away!

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451342#Comment_122451342

Wait wut

We now need to impress people from failed states who either live in Middle Ages or actively want to return to that time?

What is this woke nonsense

If they don’t like our European culture these people can switch over to the Russian “alternative” games and watch females that are so full of drugs they look like men

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451384#Comment_122451384

Where does this idea come from ? That drag is offensive to women? I certainly am not offended by it and I can't say I have ever met a woman who is

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451628#Comment_122451628

its France's PR not mine, I dont care

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451771#Comment_122451771

France and especially Paris is already largest tourist destination in world, I highly doubt anyone will go “I don’t think I will now visit Paris because of Olympics opening ceremony” and if they do these backward lot probably not welcome anywhere in civilised world, like them Russian barbarians who are so salty they trying to spread controversy and sabotage where there was none

France and Europe is already being flooded by migrants from places you mentioned many of whom wouldn’t know what culture is if it slapped them in face, or care as the alternative is remaining in a failed state and dying/starving/being prosecuted

This whole thread and the manufactured outrage is incredible in it’s stupidity, pettiness and dare I say daftness

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451384#Comment_122451384

You picked that up wrong. This was AllforIt’s description of what he saw:

they do nothing but take class A drugs, dress up as women and writhe around in a drug induced delusion they look good whilst dancing very badly.

That pretty much describes plenty of straight men’s drug fuelled nights. Hence the awkward looks meme.

There’s nothing to defend because one man claiming it’s offensive to gay men, really is no different than one woman claiming it’s offensive to women - their argument is so stupid it’s not even worth entertaining. That’s why I said earlier I wasn’t gonna be rude to you, because I don’t want to be rude to anyone. I feel bad for them, but if they insist on it, I’ll take a leaf from Gay Byrne’s book:

https://youtu.be/rKqd9ByWB_s?feature=shared

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451815#Comment_122451815

who said there would tourist consequences? its just funny for Macron that there was a fly in the ointment

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451617#Comment_122451617

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451645#Comment_122451645

And similarly, blackface is not mocking black people - it is performance art, right?

I mean, Lenny Henry wasn't offended by it, since he took part in the Black and White Minstrel Show. He only "noticed" how offensive it was after he had already used the show to make a name for himself and it had started being more of a hindrance to him because other black people didn't like it.

Drag has several strands in its origin, and not all of them are directly mocking women - but a large part of it is. One aspect, as I said before, is the English theatre tradition where young men played female parts because of the biblical stricture that forbade women from speaking in public. But drag isn't just about men playing women's roles for comic effect, as in panto where, in parallel, women act the parts of certain men. It is men portraying women as no more than exaggerated sexual objects that is objectionable in drag.

That many women don't know that - or don't mind it - doesn't really change that. Plenty of women were actively against giving women the vote during the suffragist struggle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-suffragism , and plenty of US women supported overthrowing Roe v Wade, so I don't think women supporting men against women's interests is a new or even unusual thing.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451937#Comment_122451937

at the risk of making a sexist comment I think Women are more subject to conformity/bullying behavior. Its not an accident that JK takes so much abuse, its a way of sending a message only that she she has the protection of "FY money" which most women dont have

bb1234567

Well if you are genuinely offended by this I'd have to say you're a soft touch.

But the double standard does bother me. I know the type of people who performed in this would be first to cry bloody murder if a similar entertainment piece depicted something similar but related to islamic faith. Which is just nauseating. I have no issue with religion being fair game for mockery but when only one religion is allowed to be mocked in the eyes of most western media establishments then that's just not on really.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451342#Comment_122451342

On the contrary - the show was enjoyed by billions, that’s Billions, of people across the globe. The fact that only a handful of the usual suspects took offence where none was intended, doesn’t come as a surprise to anyone whatsoever - they were always looking for something to claim they were offended by it, and they found it. That’s not on the Olympics organisers, it’s on those people who claim to be offended.

The same people can’t even make a reasonable argument as to why they are offended without sounding unreasonable by trying to claim that their offence is shared by whole groups of people based on their identity, whether it’s Christians, or gay men, or women. It’s nothing more than desperate clutching at straws to justify their claims of offence. The delusion in their case is imagining they represent Christians, gay men or women, when in reality it’s just them speaking for themselves.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451645#Comment_122451645

As per the usual, it seems to be middle aged men who feel uncomfortable looking at drag (for whatever reason) getting offended on 'behalf of women' to cover up their own discomfort.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451937#Comment_122451937

And similarly, blackface is not mocking black people - it is performance art, right?

Your whole post is whataboutery at it's finest. Put down the shovel.

Dragging blackface into this is a desperate reach. (no pun intended).

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452067#Comment_122452067

Except, they weren't mocking any religion.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452161#Comment_122452161

volchista is a woman though, and to be fair to her I can see where she’s coming from. It’s not just about the Olympics opening ceremony, it’s about the whole concept of drag itself, and it’s origins, and the point that it portrays a highly sexualised caricature of women, and the idea that it’s intended for comedic effect doesn’t justify it’s use. That is at least a fair argument.

It still has no legitimacy as far as I can see, but it’s a fair argument nonetheless.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451937#Comment_122451937

So, not only are drag queens offensive to women, but sure the poor little.silly women don't even.understand that.

That women's roles were played by men back.centuries.ago, is more to do with society's views on women at that time. Those highly sexualized drag queens are not mocking women in anyway, they like to feel like.sexual women, it's an act. It's a much more.recent thing anyway, the drag acts I remember from my childhood were usually all stressed as older middle aged fat women (think Mrs Brown) were they offensive to women because they depicted them that way?

it's really reaching for something to be offended about.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452067#Comment_122452067

Agreed, that was my point entirely - the double standards and hypocrisy are a standard of the left.

bb1234567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452211#Comment_122452211

What was it then? What was the intention or motivation behind incorporating it?

The desired effect was clearly the irreverence of placing people dressed in flamboyant costume in juxtaposition with the soberness of the important and serious religious imagery. It's fairly light mocking I will say, and as I've said, it's nothing to get worked up about it, but what's ridiculous is similar light mockery would have heads rolling across the media world if it was muslims in the scene.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452325#Comment_122452325

Have you read the thread?

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451819#Comment_122451819

- their argument is so stupid it’s not even worth entertaining.

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451884#Comment_122451884

You literally mentioned PR in post I replied to

The purpose of cities hosting Olympics and holding these ceremonies is PR to bring more tourists and focus attention on their city

And in that Paris has succeeded immensely despite terrible weather on the day and fake outrage from people that could do with a bit of travelling and learning about history and culture

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452325#Comment_122452325

The intention behind incorporating it was to reflect the cultural diversity of French society in a way that everyone felt included by being represented and could recognise themselves in it. Paintings of the Last Supper have always had far more cultural and historical significance than they ever had any religious significance. Claiming that portrayals of the Last Supper have any religious significance is reaching, and anyone claiming it is an offence to Christianity doesn’t know Christianity very well. At best all they have is a surface level understanding.

Anyone, whether they’re Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Hare Krishna, Baha’i, etc, could have interpreted any part of the opening ceremony as being a mockery of their religion. Their claims would be just as unreasonable given the fact that the opening ceremony or any part of it had nothing whatsoever to do with any religion. France is a secular country, has been for the last 200 years, it just wouldn’t occur to them to mock any religion because they simply don’t pay any religion any respect in the first place.

The fact that they didn’t include any aspect of Islam isn’t surprising given that Muslims only make up less than 4% of the population of France in the first place, Islam just doesn’t have the cultural influence or history in the West that Christianity has had to the effect that even if one were completely unfamiliar with Christianity, they would still get the meme of the Last Supper, because it has been portrayed in numerous other aspects of Western culture including but not limited to paintings, movies and television.

It could only be hypocrisy of the left if there were evidence that their intent was to mock any idea. There’s no evidence of that, nor is there any evidence of the occasion being used to further any political agenda. There would be evidence of an attempt to further a political agenda if they had included an attempt to mock Islam, but they didn’t even include an attempt to mock Christianity, so the whole argument about hypocrisy just doesn’t stand. The fact that one of the main performers received death threats and rape threats says plenty on its own, and those threats aren’t coming from Muslims, or the people you’re claiming would have heads rolling across the media.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452230#Comment_122452230

And the Right are simply paragons of virtue aren't they? No liars or hypocrites on the right, no sir.