Slow Play again

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453276#Comment_122453276

I usually ask them which of them hit the green in 2, knowing that none of them did and then laugh out loud.

BraveDonut

I see a lot of the issue is that groups that have lost ground on the group in front of them simply do not take action to pick up the pace.
"Eh, we've fallen behind lads and need to pick it up" - Ignored!

Infoseeker1975

Most golfers play their home course 90+% of the time, there should be no need to look at a putt from 4 angles & only start the process when it is your turn, all for a €20 voucher!!

Our course plays singles in 4s and it is torture if you are out after 9am.

I play off 0.1 though not a scratch player in real terms with this new system & I do not think shooting 70 or 90 makes a difference.

The things for me that do make a difference are:

Ready golf, no phones especially when your score is gone, it is 3 mins for a lost ball - several times in the last year I have been in a scenario where a playing partner found his ball at least 5 mins after he arrived at the area where the ball was deemed to have landed.

FixdePitchmark

A big issue for golf post covid and in the general economy.

People are living lives of pleasure and have nowhere to go in reality..

Golf is still dominated by 4 balls..invitationals and senior events.

And you know what , fair play to them .

But how is that compatible with growing the game and having a younger wider golfer profile.

Was out with a guy who is new to the game and from a GAA background with a young family.

To see the realisation in him that between getting to club early say 20 mins before, as required ..a 2.5 hr 9 hole and the travelling to course it was all going ro take 3.5 hours...he was just having a big moment with his golf relationship.

I know there are people here who want a slow life and head in clouds.

But that is off the wall stuff.

There might have to be lifestyle part of the timesheet. Just 2 hours ..3 balls ..People who know how to get around a course...

And let the men of leasure have their Roman lifestyles .

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453276#Comment_122453276

The more people wait for greens to clear and the more they see the pros doing it, the more this becomes embedded in golf culture. Then when someone does play their second shot on a par 5 and lands 40 yards short of the green, the group on the green think "that fcuker would have skulled us if he had hit it 40 yards further". Or else you are "putting them under pressure" and you'll be standing 40 yards away with your hands on your hips glaring at them while they lie down on the green. Or else they'll, again aping the primadonnas on tour, regard the sound of a ball landing 40 yards away as distracting them from the very serious business of holing out for their triple bogey.

bobster453

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453738#Comment_122453738

Men of leisure..Roman lifestyles..dont know too many of them.

All the above posts contain key ways to speed up..trolleys in right area..mark card while waiting to tee off..etc.

Stuff that has been done for years.

All comes down to one thing..Respect for others on the course.

Not being so selfish..is selfish a modern trait I wonder?

John_Rambo

I'm not a golfer. But is this just life now? I'm not sure if it's a post covid thing but…

People blocking an aisle in a supermarket, knowingly and not giving a sheet.
People queuing up for food and then deciding what they want when they reach the end… "em… what will I have now…"
Car drivers stopping for a chat with a line of cars behind them.
Cyclists or tractors not bothering to pull in to let traffic head off.

I see it in my sport too. Careless, unhelpful actions with a "he can wait, I'm doing my thing now" attitude. I actually had to run up and tell someone to help in an emergency as they were looking on like it was happening on TV.

ShivasIrons

Looking at all the comments here there is only one focus, which is on player behaviour, however there are multiple reasons behind slow play so multiple solutions are required.

The main reason behind slow play is the number of golfers on the golf course, too many people on the golf course means slow play no matter what else is happening. The way to regulate it is how far the tee times are apart, a minimum of 8 minutes for 2 balls, 10 minutes for 3 balls and 12 minutes for 4 balls, the group in front should be putting out or finished on a medium length par 4 before the group behind plays. The perfect example of this was the tee time spread in covid, golfers were flying around the course with no one in front of them. The problem is that golfers focus on when they start, rather than when they finish so courses go back to too little times between groups. What's better teeing off at 10:00 and finishing at 2:30 or teeing off at 10:30 and finishing at 2:30?

The other reasons are player behaviour, which everyone talks about but no one does anything about, set up of the course, i.e. long rough, difficult hole locations, fast greens, long walks between greens and tees and finally player ability, poorer players take longer from tee to green, better players take longer on the greens.

The solutions to slow play are, increase tee time intervals, don't have long rough, don't have the greens too fast, set an expected time for the course, which will vary from course to course, and educate players. Educating players means talking to the individuals who are slow, tell them the reasons why they are slow and warning them to speed up. Funnily enough, tell a fast player they are behind and they will catch up, tell a slow player they're behind and they will argue they aren't slow.

The information is out there to speed up play, it's not difficult to find, nor implement, however clubs aren't great at finding solutions and I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting on clubs to solve this any time soon.

BoardsMember

We have clocks on the tee boxes in our place. The start time is the time on the clocks on every tee. Based on round time of 4 hours 10 mins (or so so). So when ur on a tee u should see ur start tee time. If it's earlier then you're ahead. It's very clever. It hasnt helped much!

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462507#Comment_122462507

We have signs telling you that you should be here as a 4ball, 3ball etc in X amount of time. They pass no heed to them.

Golfgraffix

We built a pace of play monitor into the ClubNet app. It’s still in beta but any club that would like to test are more than welcome to take it FOC.

We have one club that have made it a condition of competition. Not sure on its own if it speeds up play but the reporting shows where and who are the bottle necks.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462519#Comment_122462519

I think you've actually hit the nail on the head, the slow guys simply just don't give a f—k. The default mindset is its golf, it takes a long time, you're out for the day anyway etc etc.

Thinking about it though, there could be a downside to those signs and targets if the target is too easily achievable. You'd potentially have guys thinking anything goes as long as they're within the time limits. I know as a junior I was always told your place on the course is immediately behind the group in front of you, not immediately in front of the group behind you.

For such a simple problem its also complicated. For example yesterday we played early in one of the first few groups out. There was a group in front of us who normally play mid-morning and wouldn't be thought of, and aren't, slow players. Yet we had to wait on almost every tee and a lot of second shots. Not long to be fair and it wasn't a big deal at all. The round felt a lot longer than normal and felt very slow, but when I ended the round on my Shotscope it was 3hrs 57m for a fourball, so in reality it wasn't really that slow a round at all. Probably about 15 mins longer than most weeks, yet the perception of that extra say, minute, per hole, was that it took ages. Admitedly we were playing rubbish and spent a lot of time looking for balls, so it gave some breathing space for us not to be right on top of the guys ahead. That group in front of us lost almost 3 holes on the group in front of them, so were they slow ? Under 4 hours says no, but losing 2/3 holes maybe suggests arguably.

Bottom line, the will isn't there to solve it. Nobody is going to fall out with someone they may be quite friendly with over 15 minutes on the course.

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462732#Comment_122462732

Thank you! I'd love to see this become a norm. I'm sure no-one in a group will ever claim personal responsibility, but even some collective responsibility could help things.

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462732#Comment_122462732

I'd imagine Boards GS would be happy to be guinea pigs for you @Golfgraffix if it would help with building data, etc...

SodiumCooled

There is very slow play (like pushing 5 hours) but I think this expectation of running around the course is as bad - I don’t find it enjoyable rushing around and it’s not conducive to playing well (for me anyway). People are entitled to take a practice swing and plan their shots too or read a putt, not sure where this expectation of arriving at your ball club in hand and hitting immediately comes from sure there is no enjoyment in that.

I think most people are happy enough to be around in 4 - 4:30 hours (for a 4 ball), if you are so tight on time an extra 20 or 30 mins is an issue then you are cutting it tight going in the first place. Im not excusing absolute blatant over the top slowness either but I think the middle ground has to be accepted.

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463128#Comment_122463128

I think this fair enough.

But it is regular enough for 3 lads to hit and a slow type player be at their ball ..even away from.ball no even club in hand . Then they start their distance thing just then..

Same on greens ..guys standing miles from ball and start reading after he is ready . Then there are times nobody is doing literally anything..you literally have to tell.them they are up or need to do **** something...

Then the perpetua last to hit off tee lad. Doesn't even have a driver out.

Even after everyone has gone.

Then slow walk lads that drop say 70 yards behind just walking 250 yards.

What use are they to anyone..particularly a 4 ball.

Don't get me started on daft routines...

bustercherry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462785#Comment_122462785

While I all for doing something but mandating installing a 3rd party app on personal devices that tracks the device (individual or groups) is totally unacceptable on sooooooo many levels. I'd argue on the legality too.

Happy enough to carry a tag/device supplied by the club but no one should mandate you to install an app on your personal device. Too many questions to be asked about what info it's capturing, where is it stored or shared, what 3rd party dependencies etc… are used and are they secure (supply chain attacks). Most of upcoming cyber security EU legislation will effectively make this kind of app non-compliant or too costly to implement secure I would suspect.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463257#Comment_122463257

Yes I think everyone should be doing the simple things as you say, bags correct side of the green, not marking cards on the green, making an effort to get to your ball quickly etc. it’s more the expectation of top speed throughout a round I was getting at.

bobster453

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463257#Comment_122463257

@FixdePitchmark when you are old and decrepit..way way in the future..will you hang up your golfing shoes rather than be viewed as an auld slow lad?😃

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463551#Comment_122463551

I play with lots of auld guys as you say ....but they are an absolute credit to themselves.

Know how to get around a golf course ..have experience and wisdom. No daft routines , And certainly are not miles from.their ball with no club..

Likes of aimpount , they wouldn't tolerate..

And they also call each other out and it doesn't turn into ...how dare you question me and I'm "entitled " to spend as long as I like here ..because I'm important..and my time is my special time...**** everyone else...

Any time I play with them..it is 4 hours for 4 balls over 18.

This idea that golf should ever be over 4 hours , is a pure modern creation of entitlement.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463128#Comment_122463128

Of course a middle ground should be there, but I don't think anyone has argued for rushing or running around the course though. For me, that's where the slow play debate falls apart in a way. 3hrs 45m - 4hrs is not running round on most courses. I know obviously on certain courses or in certain situations/conditions times will vary, but personally I think if someone finds 4hrs or just under to be rushing, they're doing something wrong. You certainly don't need to cut out practice swings or reading putts or need to have club in hand approaching the ball to be round in 4 hrs IMHO.

bobster453

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463602#Comment_122463602

Yea I gotta admit the whole world is gone mad with rights and entitlements.

To me the only thing you are entitled to is the respect of others when you treat them with respect.

Fair play is good sport and all that.

CalamariFritti

I think you have that a bit arseways @FixdePitchmark and @bobster453. Just my opinion.

Slow play sometimes happens due to ignorance - which isnt a whole lot better than entitlement admittedly - but most of the time it happens due to poor golf. Sometimes poor golf just happens. Sometimes it happens more often than just the odd lapse - in clumps if you like - and it happens to good golfers too. Thats when you get slow play. Like a group that's in the trees on three holes in a row.

Most lads I encounter in such - in my club thankfully rare - situations are a little embarrassed by it and let play through and/or do their best to catch up.

I think very very few people have 4 hours plus rounds because they think they're owed their money's worth and f*** everyone else. Nobody goes out to piss their fellow golfers off IMO.

bobster453

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465219#Comment_122465219

My comment was on life in general rather than golf.

On the golf front I agree totally with yours.

Think once maybe twice I have come across people acting the eejit

Most times it is embarrassment as you say is the overriding emotion..as I know too well😄

almostover

My home course runs the tee times at 12 mins intervals every weekend and I've never really experienced any issues with slow play. Play with golfers of all abilities, not always the same guys. 4 ball normally 3:50 to 4hrs. 3 ball maybe 3:30 to 3:45. Course setup plays a big part. Many ditches and overgrown areas near the usual playing area were cleaned up to prevent unnecessary searching for balls. 6000yd course and rough is maintained so that it's not wild. Only areas left go long are well out of the main thoroughfare.

Then it's just simple golf etiquette, keep up with the group in front. 3 mins to search for lost ball. Play a provisional if there's even half a chance your ball could be lost. Be ready to play when it's your turn.

Finally, it's golf, you need time to play it. Don't get frustrated if you have only allowed yourself the bare 4 hrs on a weekend to get around 18.

newport2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463128#Comment_122463128

I think sometimes the problem lies in when people plan their shot, select club, etc. I will generally arrive at my ball and it will be someone elses turn. While they are hitting, I plan my shot, select my club, pick the spot over which I'm going to aim, etc. So when my turn comes, I'm ready to take a practice swing and then hit my shot. I'm not rushing anything.

But I see lots of people who start this ritual when it's their turn to hit and it adds considerable time. The 15 seconds they spend doing this will add over 20 minutes to the round. And that's just one player doing it.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463608#Comment_122463608

I've played in 2 opens the last 2 weekends, and both rounds have been about 4hr 30 in 4 balls. And to be honest, what slowed down the rounds was the actual course itself. I play mostly parkland golf, and I've noticed over the last few years some of the parklands are getting harder and harder with less maintenance around the trees and wooded areas.

The course I played yesterday had lots of timber, on every hole. But what made it more difficult was, you could tell that the tress, lining the fairways in particular, had not been pruned in years. There was at least 6 of the 14 driver holes that were outrageously narrow off the tee, so on nearly ever hole, there’s was some time spent looking for golf balls, on shots you presumed were safe and sound from the tee box. One of the tee boxes proved a good vantage point for 5 or 6 holes and everywhere you looked, you could see lads plodding around the woods.

But this wasn’t just yesterday, I’m sure its due to costs / staffing issues, but some courses are falling well behind in general maintenance in the last few years. I play a lot of golf in the rural midland’s regions, most of these courses wouldn’t have huge membership numbers and are in year to year survival mode.

slave1

People over emphasise taking time on the shot, I've no problem with this as long as the preshot routine is taking place while someone else is taking their shot. On the tee it's unavoidable but at least have figured out your club and where you are aiming before your shot, we're better off with folk being comfortable on their tee shot and getting it in play versus provisionals etc. On the green you can be lining up as someone else is putting etc, I often ask on the first green if my ball can be left there if off line and most folk say no problem, I will say the same, I've no issue with someone cleaning/marking etc if I'm putting and I'd leave the pin in all day for every putt.

I'm not a fan of not moving quickly to your ball, or waiting until someone else hits before picking your club etc, folk than insist on marking and lining up tap ins should be shot. Players that flute around waiting out of turn to see the impact of the wind etc are tossers

Sometimes slow play is the courses fault e.g. long transitions or too tight off the tee throughout or too many trees. It's not the 1900's, the game is different, we need open fairways and then bring difficulty into the approach and putting, this avoids slow play big time…

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469863#Comment_122469863

Totally agree. We have a strip of trees between two holes on the back nine, and its only about 2 yards wide but very much in play. In recent years, due to staffing etc,. they've let grass grow up in amongst the trees, you have to get very lucky to find your ball now whereas before you'd see it from 20 yards away. Of course I'm usually in it every f—king weekend !!😁

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462732#Comment_122462732

Our club does this.

Every week a report is published to all members showing every tee time and the time that group took to go around, highlighted in either red or green to show if they were on time or deemed to be slow.

Quickly identifies where the problems are.