Principal availablity during summer

FionnB

General question: Is it reasonable to expect a secondary school principal and/or senior members of their staff, to be available at times throughout August, before school returns?

dory

Available to teachers or parents?

If they're on holidays then no, I don't think it's reasonable. Our principal was always clear that she was available from LC results onwards - used be 15th or so of August. Now they're later but school still reopens around then. They try to completely close down school for a good 6 weeks.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362599/principal-availablity-during-summer

Do you mean at set times or all times ?

CramCycle

Available to who?

AndrewJRenko

As a BOM member, I've seen principals working through most of the summer supervising building works and interviewing staff.

2011abc

Tradition in secondary used be school shut in July(and no vacancies then).Now in our place tends to be more like early/mid July to early (or even mid which seems very cheeky) August .Skeleton staff on site and Id say most gone by early afternoon .Considering the big bucks theyre on its not really great 10-230 ish and rotating between the DPs .Time was the ordinary teacher did less and got less pay ,now its almost equal work for far less pay .An ordinary teacher probably works harder than a principal in 80s/90s did.Shocking!And of course there are plenty of 'beauts' in high office who do FAR LESS than 'ordinary teachers'

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362599/principal-availablity-during-summer

No…maybe the last week in August

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362599/principal-availablity-during-summer

Are you contactable to the public when you're on holidays

Treppen

Big Bucks? You must be joking 2011abc.

Just over 100k for managing 50+ staff , I know people in industry managing 10 people who earn way more than that.

Responsibility for hundreds of pupils,

Then answerable to all the parents, bom , trustees, constantly threatened with legal cases!

I don't know any other job that pays so poorly for such a top management position.

FionnB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122457789#Comment_122457789

Well that's my question really, I assume they don't take the full summer as holidays, so are there normally some weeks they are working at least some of the time?

FionnB

Thanks, yes that's what I thought, they would be around some of the time as they have various things to do.

FionnB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122458496#Comment_122458496

Thank you for your input. It answered my question so well and was so intelligently written. You must have put a lot of thought into that.

dory

Yes, but they don't have to be around. And can take 6 week plus off if they like.

csirl

Surely apart from maybe 2-3 weeks annual leave, they"re working a regular week throughout the summer?

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469116#Comment_122469116

To be fair they're not wrong. If I'm on holiday from my job, I'm not contactable to people from a work perspective. Why would I assume others would be?

I know with our primary school they've said that emails will be picked up sporadically during the first 2 weeks of August with someone being available in the office during mornings from then until the first day of school. But why would you need to be contacting the principal prior to the starting back of school?

FionnB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469537#Comment_122469537

That's assuming that the principal is on holidays for the entire summer, which seems unlikely, and if that were the case would be different from pretty much any other job. And what is it they're 'not wrong' about, they didn't actually say anything but asked a pointless question.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469685#Comment_122469685

They're not wrong in their response. Do you expect to be contactable when off duty from work.

Look agree or disagree with the idea of it, but principals have the entire summer off. While they may have some in service days that they have to do, they aren't under any obligation to actually work until the first day back at school. Most will do some so as not to have to deal with a mountain of admin on their return. I'm the daughter of a principal so I do know this & have seen it at home. My dad would have done work for about a week after the school closure in June & then would be back maybe the week before opening in September.

FionnB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470251#Comment_122470251

But I am never off work for more than 2 weeks at a time, like most people, so you can't really compare. I am also the daughter of a principal. My question was regarding what it is reasonable to expect in reality, not what anyone is obliged to do.

Danzy

To staff yes, they are by default, to parents, not really, no.

Leave a msg and if it is actually important they'll get back to you.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470323#Comment_122470323

Then you should know that your parent would have been able to be off duty during the summer.

What's reasonable is a week before school is due back that there might be more of a chance to get in touch.

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469116#Comment_122469116

You're very welcome

baxterooneydoody

They get the same holidays as the staff, so no, they don't need to work a regular week until they have to come back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469531#Comment_122469531

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122471786#Comment_122471786

If they do, its a disgrace. They're running the school. They're management, not teaching staff. Surely there's a mountain of prep work before the start of any school year?

...Ghost...

It’s not reasonable to expect a response during school holidays. If it’s not urgent, wait until school term begins.

Some people don’t know where the line is. My OH is a teacher and when shopping for books and uniforms last weekend was recognised by other parents who decided it was OK to ask about all sorts of school stuff for their darlings, including when the Principal would reply to emails and phone calls. She’s on holidays, doing normal mammy things with our children.

It’s not OK…just like it’s not ok for anyone to approach you about your work when you are on holiday.

Sending an email or leaving a message is one thing, but approaching staff outside of the workplace during a holiday period is the height of ignorance imo.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362599/principal-availablity-during-summer

I would say it's reasonable to expect the principal to be contactable by parents in the days leading up to the new school term. Outside of the first and last week of the holidays I'd expect a slow response, or no response at all, depending on what the contact relates to.

My other half is a primary school teacher. If she had something urgent I know she could contact her principal at any time, anything not urgent can wait. They're generally back a few days before the kids anyway, depending on how it falls.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122471849#Comment_122471849

They're running a school... Which is closed. No staff, no students.

It may be a bit of a shock, but it's common for a mountain of work to be there once anyone returns from holidays, no matter what the job.

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122471849#Comment_122471849

Holidays are Holidays, do you break from your holidays early to go back to prep for work, I doubt it, I'm sure some principles do but they don't have to if it's their approved holiday time.

csirl

A typical Principal is paid 100k plus. Its a senior management role. The idea that they get 2-3 months summer holidays is insane. And they're not holidays - they're just days that students arent attending. Maybe thats whats wrong with some schools. If the Principal isnt making an effort, why should anyone else.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122471849#Comment_122471849

What mountain of prep work? If it's secondary & you mean scheduling the classes. A lot will have done a prelim schedule while the exams were on in the school so it just needs refining before everyone comes back. For primary, teachers are allocated to classes long before the summer break so that's done. And even if there was prep work, it doesn't mean that they need to be contactable by the parents. Staff maybe but not parents.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473063#Comment_122473063

It's the nature of teaching. They are holidays. Same as other jobs. And who says not being available to parents during the summer isn't making an effort. Put it like this - the business I work in, some of the branches close for 2.5 weeks over Christmas. This it outside any annual leave of the staff. The branch manager is not expected to be contactable by customers during that time period or do any work. Because the business is closed. As is the school during the summer. Like it or not, that is the nature of teaching.

FionnB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122473333#Comment_122473333

But they are not holidays the same as other jobs. Other jobs do not close down for 2 months every summer. As per the poster above, I understood that someone in a principal's job would not be off for as long as that at a time.

afkasurfjunkie

Typical principal? Secondary or primary? In relation to the salary of €100,000…