Russian Spies in Ireland

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122466805#Comment_122466805

If you want to deny that British intelligence has or does engage in malign activity you may do so of course, but it is not a credible position.

Israel has reduced towns and cities to rubble and
committed war crimes with impunity as have the Americans.
You can either support some countries war crimes support some countries turning cities and towns into rubble, support some countries illegal invasions, support some countries spying on Ireland or you can condemn all war crimes, all illegal invasions, all spying on Ireland, without equivocation.

When it comes to spies in Ireland there is no malign interest or benign interest only self interest.

degrassinoel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122466566#Comment_122466566

Good thing i didn't say they were, then eh?

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465791#Comment_122465791

A thread about Russians spreading **** and spreading misinformation and trying to create and exploit political, social, historical wedges

… now has just such an attempt

Like flies to 💩

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465791#Comment_122465791

How many innocent Irish people did the German's shoot dead on Irish streets during WW2? Your criteria is as fascile as it gets.

If the scope is widened to Europe and the UK the Russian security services have a very bloody record, particularly if you are willing to view the suspicious deaths that various state agencies can't attribute rational causes to.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467124#Comment_122467124

🤣 Why are you so worried about Russian spies is all I'm wondering? Especially since there are huge numbers of British spies and agents who have done us untold harm.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467222#Comment_122467222

Are there any nazi spies in Ireland now? There are Russian and British spies. Why are you concerned about Russian spies but not the spies from the nation who have a history of murdering large numbers of Irish people?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467320#Comment_122467320

History. The world moves on.

It's 2024. Maybe lift your gaze in time and place and it'll be transparently obvious why people would be concerned about Russian spies, when their mouthpieces on Russian TV threaten these islands, when fellow EU member states seek NATO protection against Russia, and when Russia wages an illegal and aggressive war against a neutral country for aligning with the EU politically - many citizens of that country are here, seeking our protection against Russian war crimes and atrocities.

Some people are still stuck on 1974.

Russian spies interfering in the EU parliament, where Ireland is represented.

https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-spies-european-parliament-latvia-meps-eu/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/29/belgian-police-search-eu-parliament-office-russian-interference

RobbingBandit

Misdirection, it sounds more sinister than Propaganda.

odyssey06

And here is more evidence of Russian interference in EU countries, countries friendly to Ireland such as the US, and in the Brexit vote which did so much to generate emnity between the UK and Ireland and the EU.

Russia is actively hostile to the EU, and Ireland is an EU member state.

https://www.politico.eu/article/five-things-we-learned-about-the-uk-russia-report-brexit/

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467311#Comment_122467311

Ffs week we Putin welcome with open arms a convicted Russian assassin and criminal who murdered here in Europe

What is it with far left and stupid whataboutery in face of current events which make mockery of this crap

nachouser

...

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467441#Comment_122467441

You are absolutely right. After all, the Russians blew up the Nordstream pipeline. One of the most expensive pieces of European infrastructure and the most costly act of international terrorism in Europe not to mention a massive release of environmentally harmful gas.

The US of course is not openly hostile to the EU.
The US has much more influence on European and Irish politics than Russia ever had.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/uk-says-there-is-no-evidence-of-russian-meddling-in-brexit-vote-idUSKCN24N0MY/

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467498#Comment_122467498

Grand so. You have answered your own question as to why Russian spies are legitimately viewed with suspicion within the EU. Anything else would demonstrably be a bad faith argument in light of such statements.

The US is not hostile to the EU.

Russia is hostile to the EU and has threatened EU members such as Latvia and actually illegally invaded EU candidate countries.

It has attempted to threaten EU member states using energy supply as leverage... Nordstream was part of that leverage.

And documented evidence has been provided on thread of Russian spies in the EU parliament.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467498#Comment_122467498

I am sensing some sarcasm. Do "we" know for certain who blew it up yet? I thought it was still inconclusive, though I think Russia is most likely. Been a number of very suspicious incidents with important pieces of infrastructure in the EU countries supporting Ukraine since the advent of the Russian SMO, but not doubt the Evil Yanks did them as well.

The US is not openly hostile towards the EU. The majority of the US Republican party seems to have switched from the traditional US post WW2 foreign policy (European integration is good, we support it) and probably is now unfortunately.

Russia is hostile to it and wants to fragment and ultimately destroy the EU. That happening is really not good for us here, but probably cuts no ice with you as an example of harm Russia means to us - I expect you agree with Putin/Russia that it should be broken up or at the least Ireland should leave it now!

On that article, some UK Tories that always despised the EU and wanted "Brexit" don't want to acknowledge that it suited Putin, and Russia's bots and trolls almost certainly advocated for it online before the referendum. Oh well, better not to look into it too deeply, we might not like what we find.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467542#Comment_122467542

Of course the UK or US would never spy on EU countries would they?

They would never fund terrorist groups in Europe or illegally bomb a sovereign European country.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467561#Comment_122467561

Your question in your opening post was asked and answered by your own words:

"The US of course is not openly hostile to the EU."

So either that is that or you are admitting you are presenting a disingenuous bad faith argument and wont even stand over your own posts. And if you wont stand over your own posts then zero reason for anyone to pay them any heed. You destroy the credibility of your own posts with such tactics.

nachouser

"The Spy Who Loved Me" would suggest not all Russian spies are evil, so there's a bit of precedent I suppose.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467593#Comment_122467593

I stand over my post. What do you not understand about the United States not being openly hostile to the EU?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467608#Comment_122467608

Your words: "The US of course is not openly hostile to the EU."

The US is not hostile to the EU. The US and vast majority of EU member states stand in alliance together against common enemies.

And Russia is openly hostile to the EU.

Evidence has been provided on the thread of Russian hostility to Ireland, the EU, other EU countries and illegal warfare against EU candidate countries.

The title after all mentions Russian spies... you should be familiar with it.

Come back to us when you have engaged with it in good faith and can respond with something other than disingenuous whataboutery.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467452#Comment_122467452

Try to make your posts make sense. I have no clue what you're saying.

Elmer Blooker

.

edited as link won’t work?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467673#Comment_122467673

I believe all countries act in their self interest. The US was certainly hostile to the EU under the Trump administration and will be again if Trump is re elected.
It is in the interests of the US to ferment hostility between the EU and other state actors.
There is a huge concentration here on Russian interference in EU politics when the reality is the US is much more invested in influencing European politics and has been for many years.
Similarly many still believe the “reds under the bed scare” about Russian influence on US elections and that Trump was a Putin puppet due to compromat involving him and prostitutes engaged in water sports in the Moscow Hilton.

Again the reality is that Israel exerts far more influence in US politics and policy, both foreign and domestic than Russia.

It was Kissinger who said that to be an enemy of the United States was dangerous but to be a friend was fatal. I think Europe could quite easily find itself abandoned by our erstwhile ally under a new administration.
When you mention Russia being involved in illegal warfare with EU candidate countries you may recall the illegal bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999.

You may also recall the reason for this bombing was to protect the citizens of a region of Yugoslavia who sought to break away and were being bombed by the Yugoslav army.
You may also recall a more recent scenario where a region of a European country sought to break away and was being bombed by the country’s army.
In the first scenario the US and her NATO allies intervened to protect the breakaway region, illegally bombed the country, destroying infrastructure and killing civilians before recognising the independence of the breakaway region.
In the second scenario the reaction was quite different. The reactions were not governed by principle or freedom or democracy but only by self interest. That is realpolitik.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467968#Comment_122467968

Putin's Russia is openly hostile to Europe, is invading a European country, has been waging an energy war on Europe, is engaged in large-scale hybrid warfare on Europe for years, Russian helicopters have "onwards to Berlin" written on them, Putin's GRU have made assassination attempts on people using nerve agent and polonium on European soil, nightly Russian state TV hosts talk of invading European countries and launching nuclear weapons on European cities, the Kremlin's disinformation war on Europe (and NATO) pervades everywhere, including on this site.

There's no comparison

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467731#Comment_122467731

Well duh, since English is probably not your native language

This week there was a prisoner exchange with Russia

Putin got back a bunch of spies, one of whom was a convicted murderer and assassin

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468021#Comment_122468021

If one believes anyone with an opinion of geopolitics different to theirs must inevitably be a paid Russian disinformation agent one will inevitably overestimate the scope of Russian disinformation.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467968#Comment_122467968

It is 2024 you are running away from the recent evidence of Russia spying and hostile actions against the EU in favour of what is the whataboutery this time... Serbia in 1999? Had Ireland ever engaged in the kind of war crimes and atrocity that onduct Serbia engaged in? Nope.

And Serbia wasnt an EU candidate country in 1999 and it wasnt attacked because it was aligning with the EU. It was attacked because of its reprehensible conduct in Kosovo.

So no I dont recall any of what you have described because it is a fiction.

So your claims are false on multiple levels.

The title of the thread is Russian spies, a thread you created and you talk about anything and everything but. Running away from the evidence of same.

Proof positive that the content of your own posts cannot be taken at face value.

Trying to make utterly false equivalence between Russian actions in the here and now. You arent actually talking abour Russian spies though are you?

Just the same discredited disingeuous whataboutery. Rinse and repeat. Completely unconvincing.

If you want to talk about Russian spies go ahead. If you are not talking about Russian spies then I will not be a party in your disingenuous attempts to drag this thread onto a topic already in scope of another thread on this forum.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468074#Comment_122468074

You're right. Irish is my native language. You still don't make any sense though. Are you speaking your native language?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467968#Comment_122467968

'You may also recall the reason for this bombing was to protect the citizens of a region of Yugoslavia who sought to break away and were being bombed by the Yugoslav army.'

Incorrect. The reason that NATO bombed Serbia was because Serbia was involved in genocide in Kosovo. The world sat by and watched the Serbs slaughter thousands of people in Bosnia, they made a massive mistake there, and they were not going to do it again.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468173#Comment_122468173

Yes, the world would never sit by and see tens of thousands of women and children being bombed to death ever again.
Unless of course it was being done by a western ally.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468220#Comment_122468220

Wrong again. If you actually knew anything about any of the wars in the Balkins, you would be aware that it was a much more targeted approach.

Serbians moved across countries, rounding up everyone from smaller villages and towns into bigger towns. Where they massacred all the men between the ages of 12/70.

They did nothing to women and children. And they didn't bomb anyone.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468085#Comment_122468085

Playing the victim card doesn't refute those points.

Countries gather intelligence on other countries, including allies. However Putin's Russia is engaged in extensive and systematic hostile actions against Europe, it's clandestine activities against Europe are not comparable to e.g. Germany's intel activity on Italy, or the US spying on Germany.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468239#Comment_122468239

If you know anything you might have heard of the Krajina ethnic cleansing war crime, I doubt if you’ve heard about it as it’s been erased from history as it was carried out by Croatia who are of course the good guys.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468239#Comment_122468239

You claimed the illegal intervention by NATO was due to the genocide of the Kosovon people. In this genocide up to 8,000 people were killed.

The Lancet estimates that more than 20 times that number have been killed in Gaza. Yet it must not be called a genocide and NATO countries are happy to supply the weapons killing civilians.
If Yugoslavia was a NATO ally they would not only have been given free rein to murder Kosovans, NATO would have happily supplied them with the weapons to do so.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/12/gaza-death-toll-indirect-casualties

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468278#Comment_122468278

No, I have heard about it. It was during the Croatia war. There were people of many ethnicities living in Yugoslavia. The Krajina massacre was an incident of Croatian Serbs committing mass murder. Anyone who knows anything about the Yugoslavia wars understands that no one country was a 'good guy' as there were people from all ethnicities living in all the former Yugoslavian States.

Serbia, however, committed mass murder all over the former Yugoslavia.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468286#Comment_122468286

It wasn't illegal. It happened because of a security council resolution number 1244.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468336#Comment_122468336

I don’t want to continue to go off topic as so have received a warning but the resolution you refer to was adopted months after the NSTO bombing began and did not make the bombing legal. My point is that Russian intelligence, British intelligence, Chinese and US intelligence are all active in Ireland and are all there solely to pursue their own interests as they do in every other field of overt and covert activities.
I am not condoning or downplaying Russian activity in Ireland or their illegal invasion of Ukraine.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468417#Comment_122468417

No, it didn't, it replaced earlier resolutions.

I don't understand what your point is about foreign intelligence in Ireland, do you think we allow it?

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468021#Comment_122468021

Don’t forget the HSE hacking that cost us 100s of millions.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468611#Comment_122468611

Yes, but surely we can find a way to shift blame to the US/UK which is the entire dog whistle purpose of this thread.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468623#Comment_122468623

100% agree.

The EU and the majority of their citizens are sleep walking into Putins spider web.

nacho libre

On the subject of spying, some of you may find this story interesting.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/27cXssZ1GFjqMuOMXwoJbq?si=cHWE4ITyTz69IkW3Ea10wQ

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469665#Comment_122469665

Cheers for that, very interesting

Mannesmann

They have at least 2 anyway. Borris in Ossory and Borris O'keane?

Mannesmann

They have at least 2 anyway. Borris in Ossory and Borris O'keane?

Mannesmann

They have at least 2 anyway. Borris in Ossory and Borris O'keane?

thatsdaft

Lol what’s that about ^

Thought this was funny, nude spies

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/36977

Beasty

It seems the OP decided to start this thread so they could discuss topics where they are currently banned from posting in the dedicated threads in this forum

Thread closed