Parents Responsibility for Young Children on Roads

wandererz

We have a situation in our estate with one family in particular who have kids aged 3 - 6.

The parents allow them to play unsupervised on the street, with cars going up and down the main entrance /exit at high speed. Sometimes the youngest runs towards the main road and has been stopped by residents.

The parents refuse to listen to reason.

What are the rules surrounding parental responsibility in such a case?

What is a reasonable route of approach? Is it via the community Garda to have a chat with them?

Crakepottle?

In some housing estates you see very young kiddies out playing with their friends on the road. The adults are generally keeping an eye on them by mutual agreement among households . There are often signs on display saying "Mind our children " reminding motorists of the kind of area they are in and of the need to be very careful. Residents who do not observe this precaution are frequently taken to task by parents, residents associations etc. That is normal. If these children are unsupervised near a main road that is asking for trouble.

advisemerite

The speeding cars are a huge part of the problem.

wandererz

No such signs in our estate. Just speed warnings, which are largely ignored by delivery drivers and those showing off their powerful motors.

Father goes out to work. Mother leaves them outside to there own devices whilst she does whatever inside.

Someone just complained to the father today and he burst into an attacking rant. I saw and overheard this. He seems to think it is the drivers responsibility (which it is), but what is the law regarding parental and social responsibility and disregard thereof?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467268#Comment_122467268

This reads like chatgpt

Crakepottle?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467305#Comment_122467305

w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467305#Comment_122467305

why

xyz13

Report them to Tusla.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467295#Comment_122467295

In what universe is sending your kids to play in the traffic considered adequate parenting? Vehicles don't need to be moving fast to do damage to young children with no road awareness.

Community guard and also Tusla are the way to go.

endofrainbow

First stop Community Garda.

MrMusician18

Strictly speaking yes it's the drivers responsibility to avoid hitting pedestrians.

That said, I wouldn't be gambling my childrens lives on such high mindedness. A practical and pragmatic approach to road safety would obviously have parents keeping their children away from the roads. Whoever is "right" will be little comfort if you are looking at a child that's been knocked down.

rock22

You are describing every road in 1960's Ireland.

If you note down the numbers of the speeding cars and pass the note on to the Gardaí they may give those drivers a warning.

Caranica

We have that issue in our car park in our development. Despite a playground, large communal gardens and a huge park 5 minutes away. It is going to take a child being hurt before certain parents will give a damn.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467504#Comment_122467504

This is it. Sure it's the drivers responsibility not to mow down pedestrians of any age however I'm not making my kids safety someone else's remit.

Crakepottle?

A lot depends on the layout of the estate. Some cul de sac roads have children of a wide age range out playing with toys, on their bikes etc. Skipping , hopscotch and German jumps are also enjoying a revival. Drivers in such areas are very aware of the presence of children. Just last week I heard of a case where a number of parents approached a resident with regard to less than careful driving in the estate and the person took the advice in the spirit in which it was given . With regard to young children wandering away and approaching the main road unsupervised? They should not be allowed out without an adult until they are capable of /prepared to obey the rules.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468918#Comment_122468918

they won't, and probably can't. 'someone saw you driving at an unnecessary speed' is not reason enough to send out warnings to drivers.

John_Rambo

100% drivers in the wrong. However I'm very cautious with my kids on the road, walking, skating, cycling or playing. They're very aware and well versed because anyone can jump in a car with no licence, no insurance, drunk, drugged and drive like a lunatic and nothing will be done about it.

Dont Be at It

Maybe it's because I'm getting a bit older but the speed cars are travelling at it so much higher than when I was growing up. Even on backroads, estates etc. And to make it worse the cars are about twice the size.

You can see why parents are so much more protective of kids these days. I wouldn't dream of letting one out cycling on a main road now whereas we did it without second thought in the 90s.

blackbox

I'd mostly be concerned about the possibility of a toddler crawling under a truck while the driver is making a delivery.

Since they don't respond to advice, let Tusla know.

Crakepottle?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469161#Comment_122469161

I suppose that's why playdates have become so popular. Children are dropped off and collected.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467301#Comment_122467301

A residents association has no legal standing to intervene in family matters.

You said the father was unreceptive to an approach.

He has been warned and it might be best left at that.

Of course any individual neighbour can do as they think fit.

magicbastarder

the advice to go to tusla - i suspect tusla wouldn't touch this with a bargepole? they're probably flat out as it is dealing with kids in active danger.

Mikros

How about looking at slowing down the drivers first? Children playing outside their house should not be seen as the main problem to be addressed.

TheOneDon24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058363014/parents-responsibility-for-young-children-on-roads

Why are there people doing "high speed" in a housing estate, generally children tend to be playing in housing estates id be more concerned about the drivers tearing around the place, perhaps contact the guards and report any speeding drivers coming thru the estate.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469216#Comment_122469216

There's a balance. They have to get out on their own at some stage.

TheOneDon24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469014#Comment_122469014

Yeah we dealt with an "enthusiastic" BMW driver who mistook the estate for the Nürburgring, same was done to an Audi driver and a Kodiaq woman who hilariously enough was outraged to be collared for speeding thru the estate.

These weren't "scumbags" either these were middle class white collar people who believed themselves "entitled" to drive in what ever manner they saw fit.

Thankfully our estate is very kid orientated and has a lot of vigilant parents who do take action when this behavior happens, the 0 tolerance has certainly driven the message home and no one speeds anymore in the estate thankfully.

Sigma101

I guess Boards has always had a tradition of clueless idiots dispensing bad advice.

Imagine reporting parents to Tusla for letting their kids play outside their house. I mean, Tusla?

GBX

"The parents refuse to listen to reason" If this is from speaking to said parents, I don't see how the community Garda approach will yield any different results if they can't or won't see it their responsibility to change the kids mindset.

The youngest is likely following the lead of the other siblings and if the dangers of cars speeding hasn't been thought to them or likely just a passing remark of "Watch for cars on the road" They wont understand or care for the dangers. Realistically, what 3 year old would?

The residents/drivers in the estate need to manage their speed. It should be common sense that kids will be playing outside in better weather and be mindful they would be around. But they shouldn't be speeding either.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469270#Comment_122469270

Given the ages of these children I would consider them being unsupervised on the street on a regular basis active danger.

GBX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469380#Comment_122469380

That would be up to Tusla to define. If it is such a big issue, the OP should report them. But I would not imagine there would be an immediate answer or solution to the issue.

Ezeoul

There is no law that I know of, about letting your children out to play, though (imo) a 3 year old is too young to be outside without an adult present at all times.

I don't know, I'm torn on this. I think the onus is on the parents to teach their kids not to run out on the road (the first thing you teach them as soon as they're old enough to play outside) but also heavily on drivers not to drive at speed in housing estates.

As a driver, I anticipate there will be young children playing outside in housing estates, and adjust my speed and observation accordingly. Kids will be kids and forget the "rules"- run out after a ball or whatever.

I dont think keeping kids housebound all the time is the best solution either.

(eta) Does the estate have any traffic calming measures? In my estate we bombarded the council daily until they installed speed ramps.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469465#Comment_122469465

I agree that there has to be a balance. My youngest is 6 and he still doesn't really get to play on the street because I know for a fact I cannot trust him to not just run on to the road, he's still in that "I'm invincible" phase so until that passes, he's under strict control. I don't think it's fair to put the responsibility onto the older kids, especially when our road suffers from drivers speeding and the amount of people on phones is unbelievable. The reality is, the road has cars parked along both sides, if you are driving there is little visibility of what is further ahead but people still boot down the road, on their phones as it is a shortcut between a major motorway intersection and one of the main Dublin routes.

Dont Be at It

Sad state of affairs when letting your kids play outside in the estate is deemed worthy of a call to Tulsa.

csirl

Maybe I'm out of touch, but do people generally think it is ok for a 3 year old to be left alone in a public place?

GBX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469495#Comment_122469495

100%.

My thoughts on this would be:

1: Parents but thats already tried and failed.

2: Garda community officer. But likely to fail also.

3: Ask the residents to stump up to pay for speed bumps and signs for slowing drivers down.

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100: Tulsa. They will likely suggest go with options 1 and 2. And not do or be in a position to do anything anyway.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469522#Comment_122469522

I don"t see how community guards have any role in policing the supervision of children?

Residents installing their own speed humps and traffic signs on public roads.......are you for real? More than likely would end up being prosecuted for damaging public property and given a bill for the repairs.

GBX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469554#Comment_122469554

Well the OP suggested that, so I repeated what they asked.

Yes, I'm for real 🙄 bumps and signage, I suggested that if it exists, they go through their management company to address the speed issues. You know this could be an option depending where they live. Where did I suggest about damaging public property? Does that make more sense to you??

Dont Be at It

On the speed bumps - I wish they were plastered all over towns and estates. Proper ones, not the ones you can swerve into the middle or side of the road to avoid - they're nearly worse than having nothing.

wandererz

There are speed limit signs and speed ramps in place. That doesn't stop people from being a bit heavy footed at times.

Delivery drivers generally are in a hurry to drop off and head to the next location. Whether that be Just Eat/ Deliveroo/Amazon/GLS etc.

Difficult to control them and generally they are gone before anything can be done.

This is the main road into the estate. (In fact, an Amazon van was driven into by another resident who failed to look left).

There are also bin trucks and recycling trucks entering and exiting about twice a week.

There are plenty of green spaces, the main green being just outside their apartment, but parents allow kids of this age to run about and cycle on the main road.

There's nothing that the Residents Association can and will do except for sending out a letter.

One resident had a chat with the father who burst into argument with him rather than having a conversation. He told the person complaining that it was the responsibility of the drivers and to call the Gards if he had a problem. There is no supervision.

Not only the above, but they have climbed onto the hood and roof of my neighbours car and dented it, played with their toys on my car (running a fire truck across the bonnet) and taken other kids toys from their gardens/patios.

I don't think Tusla is the way to go, but I was thinking that a polite yet stern word from someone of authority such as the community Gard may make a difference.

The Garda website mentions this as part of its community policing mandate: "policing quality of life issues affecting communities".

Hence I thought this may be an appropriate approach, unless anyone else has gone through this previously and has alternative suggestions.

Note: Residents Association has been made aware, parents have been spoken to by other residents already.

GBX

If its a main road, there wont be a lot that can be done. Its a driver behaviour issue that is the main issue with added parental supervision problem into the mix.
If the residents association has been informed there is not a lot can done done as they have no legal standing.
If the parents are waving away the argument of the responsibility, I don't think you will be making much inroads addressing it any other way unless it is repeated to them and they change their mindset.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469495#Comment_122469495

A 3 year old playing in the street unsupervised is a recipe for disaster and terrible parenting.

I remember when this happened back in 2000 around the corner from me. Was absolutely horrific. Parts of the poor kid's skull were imbedded in the road.

https://archive.ph/FKD3a

xyz13

Sad state of affairs when leaving minor children unsupervised is deemed acceptable parenting.

https://www.tusla.ie/children-first/parents-and-guardians/

"Parents and guardians have the primary responsibility for the care and protection of their children."

Crakepottle?

When you drive into or through a residential area you need to assume that a child will appear from nowhere and that it's your solemn duty to avoid harming that child. A driver may have his or her own opinion on the parenting skills of the local parents, but that is neither here nor there.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469858#Comment_122469858

I don't think anyone would debate you there.

Doesn't mean parents should allow 3 year olds out onto a road unsupervised though.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469564#Comment_122469564

Where did I suggest about damaging public property? Does that make more sense to you??

I think they mean that if the residents of the estate took it upon themselves to install unauthorised ramps, it would be seen as damage to public property.

Also, if someone damaged their vehicle going over an unauthorised ramp, they could make a case for damages against the residents.

I remember years ago, there were a few estates that did this, and it backfired. It was one of the reasons why the residents in my estate held off and hassled the hell out of the council, until it was done legally.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469360#Comment_122469360

Depends on what other reports there have been.

Parents who let 3-6 year old play unsupervised in traffic will usually have done other dumb things too. The picture builds over time.

Crakepottle?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469915#Comment_122469915

I have seen three year olds play safely in the company of older siblings out on the road in some housing estates. The child referred to in the original post who keeps running towards the main road would be a different story .

Thelonious Monk

Get on the council and TDs to install speed bumps and chicanes to slow them down

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470040#Comment_122470040

Depends what you define as 'older sibling' really. A 12 year old keeping an eye on their younger siblings? Fair enough.

A 6 year old like in the OP though? That's entirely different.

Crakepottle?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470419#Comment_122470419

Very true. Though it was the norm over the years to have groups of children from toddlers upwards playing on the road in quiet estates and not coming to any harm. Of course the factor of frequent van deliveries to private houses is a relatively recent one and that must be considered.I t's a thorny issue,

facehugger99

Any driver who knocks over a child in a residential housing estate should have their license taken off them and face a stint in prison.

If you knock a child over, you were driving too fast and not paying attention - no ifs and no buts.

Do this a few times and publicize the sentencing and watch the ignorant drivers get the message.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470844#Comment_122470844

You are writing this as if people are running over children in housing estates to beat the band with zero consequence…?