Unbelievable number of Indians coming here. Is there no limit?

scrotist

I saw some stats recently about work permits issued to foreign nationals in 2024.

India was number 1 with 8,000 work permits issued up to July 31st this year. (so a total of 16,000 by December probably)

I knew they would be number 1. (For comparison, Brazil is #2 at around 2,600 permits. )

Also, you need to multiply that 16,000 by 5 when they bring their extended family over. To a total of 80,000 Indians by the end of this year. Then repeat again next year.

I'm not bothered by the other nationalities getting work permits. But Indians are a direct threat to my livelihood. They are literally stealing my jobs! I work in the IT sector. They are happy to work for peanuts, while I respect myself and ask for reasonable compensation. But why would they pay me €80k when and Indian will happily do it for €40k?

I have worked with Indians for the last few years too. They were all frauds. Completely fake CVs and didn't have a clue what they were doing in work.

They all came here on a student visa, crammed through 1 year Data Science or IT related Masters, then got a work permit. And none of them seem to remember anything from their Masters courses.

In my current job, we had to fire one after a month because it was obvious he just lied through his teeth in the interview. In my experience they also don't fit culturally into a team and make things really awkward.

Finally, when all of these Indians get into director level positions or a position where they decide on who is hired and fired, good luck getting a job in IT if you're Irish.

I watched this happen in a previous job with a consulting firm. My manager was Indian and built out the team to about 10 Indians and one Irish person - me.

I currently have an Indian colleague who doesn't have a clue how to do their job. I can see in meetings when they share their screen that 100% of their work is Chat GPT. I remember the moment it clicked when I realized they didn't have a clue - I asked them to comment out a line of code and they couldn't figure out how to do it. You learn this on the first day of university. I don't have a clue how they got past the interview. My manager won't fire them, because as I mentioned above, he has already fired another Indian so it will be a bad look, and, he'll probably be fired too for hiring two frauds in a row.

Anyway, rant over.

Is there literally no end to the Indians coming in? Does the government have any sort of policy to limit work visas? I think this should be as important as the refugee issue, but not everybody works in IT, so most people don't see them as a threat.

fatbhoy

I have worked with Indians for the last few years too. They were all frauds. Completely fake CVs and didn't have a clue what they were doing in work.

I work in IT too. Some are brainiacs, some are the opposite, and make me wonder how they actually got through college. I agree that there are too many though. The main problem I see is that IT companies are now moving towards outsourcing to India, where wages are much lower than here. The company I work for have done this, and others have too.

Pauliedragon

Username seems apt.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364014/unbelievable-number-of-indians-coming-here-is-there-no-limit

We are no longer workers. We are now all economic units. Ireland, and most of the first world are no longer countries, they are economies. If a company can get a cheaper economic unit they will. Government will point to the economy doing well, which is no use to the people trying to make a decent living wage to live here…..

Look at the state of our health system, education system etc, but the govt don’t care because the number show we have a “strong” economy.

The people no longer matter, the numbers do.

rowantree18

Disclaimer- im just giving information hete and am in no way interested in any discriminatory/xenophobic discourse

Ok - I'm in health and would know a number of Indians as they are highly represented in that field. I'm a fairly well read/educated person and they talk a lot with me as I know the geography, languages, religions of the regions and they appreciate someone knowing that India is vast and multicultural. The info I get from them is that Ireland is a strategic destination. The UK is overcrowded and the education for their kids is not good enough. It's all about the next generation - getting their kids educated. They are incredible savers, don't spend sixpence buy houses really quickly. They're clued in and always wanting houses in areas without "social housing" - I'm asked about areas constantly. Ireland is the only European option in terms of English (for health workers, IT is different). They love it here in the main and all want other family members over and are annoyed that mammy and daddy can't come immediately. They always work opposite shifts to spouses and never pay childcare and will essentially just refuse to work in ways which mean they have to pay childcare. The free University for kids is a HUGE factor as you pay in the UK now. Loads more will come and most won't leave. Some want to go on to Australia or Canada, but most not.

This is my experience

cgcsb

I've seen this also, I work in engineering, not IT.

There's a totally different cultural attitude to honesty. Not that irish people are all honest, but the reasons for lying and frequency are totally different. I've seen this in work, if you ask for a task to be done, typically they'll say 'yes no problem', then it'll be done badly or not at all, because they won't ask for help and won't ask for clarification on what's required.

There's a real difference between Indians educated here vs educated in India, night and day, Indians educated here tend to be knowledgeable and have no problem asking for help, more time, clarifications etc. Also the older generations are way more difficult to deal with than the younger generation. The older ones feel like they don't have to do anything at all and men tend to be more problematic than women

rowantree18

Just to add - when they become the majority in a (for example) nursing unit, the Irish nurses end up leaving and looking for other jobs as basically there's no "craic" at work - Indian nurses don't do Coppers, drinks after last shift etc. They're married young and money is huge for them. I've experienced a number of young nurses who left large hospitals to do other types of nursing jobs as they felt outnumbered and with no fun or banter at work.

scrotist

Previous work permit figures:

2019:

#1 India, 4888 permits

#2 Brazil, 1400 permits

2020:

#1 India 5,565 permits

#2 Brazil 1,799 permits

2021:

#1 India 6,445 permits

#2 Brazil 1,098 permits

2022:

#1 India 15,695 permits !!!!

#2 Brazil 4,304 permits

2023:

#1 India 11,893 permits

#2 Philippines 2,634 permits

2024:

#1 India 8,000 permits so far this year

#2 Brazil 2,600

I am not a crazy "great replacement" twitter person. I just think this is a threat to me finding a job in the future. They are everywhere in my line of work and they are happy with shyte salary. If they can scam their way through an interview, why would anyone hire me?

I understand some of these are probably in the medical field also, which is grand.

Sconsey

I had a short stay in hospital recently, a significant proportion of the healthcare staff were Indian (I spoke with a few about where they were from). Where would our health service be without them? I'm glad they chose to come here.

Sidenote: I have worked in IT for over 25 years, have worked with Indian, Chinese, Eastern European, Latin American among others. There are good and bad in all groups, OP just seems to have a major chip on his shoulder.

scrotist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494486#Comment_122494486

No chip on my shoulder or fear of the unknown. I am talking from literally years of personal experience in front of my eyes. Perhaps I have been extremely unlucky.

lordleitrim

My partner's tenants were Indians and they both worked in health care and had a young child but left the country as they couldn't stand our damp, dull climate. So not all stay regardless the circumstances.

Working for years as a business analyst in finance, i found Indian software developers were often the most challenging. They either over complained or interrogated the most trivial things or else conversely didn't complain/raise concerns at all when you would prefer they highlighted issues or red flags earlier in the process. I felt the Irish developers had to hand hold them a lot. Saying that, I dealt with a full spectrum of great or awful Irish developers too so I suppose its dangerous to generalise.....

ELM327

I work in finance and a lot of folks working here in analyst/data science roles would be indian. When I hired people for those roles here, almost all applicants were indian.
A lot of irish don't seem to have the prerequisites for jobs in pharma, tech, finance etc. I'm Irish btw before you accuse me of rhetoric.

Anyone coming here to work should be allowed to do so. The amount of indians I've met who have bought houses here and integrated is vastly higher than any other group

GreeBo

Seems like your major problem is a brutal interview process.

Who is hiring people who are not in possession of the most basic skills for the job and are not a cultural fit for the destination teams?

Their brownness isn't really the problem here, is it?

retalivity

I work in IT, they literally cannot get Irish people (or in a lot of cases even EU people) to fill roles.

Hence why so many Indians are offered jobs and visas. The visas are generally tied to their tenure with the company and meeting performance targets etc. i.e. not being a complete spoofer.

Demand and (lack of) supply.

scrotist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494468#Comment_122494468

Yeah, I mentioned in my first post about the cultural fit. I have worked with a million nationalities in a number of jobs (currently work in a team of about 12 nationalities) and it's my experience also. Well, I'm not going to quit, but the general banter or chit chat part.

argentum

I interviewed about 40 people from India recently ,they had all arrived in January on a student visa , all of them doing a masters in a college in Dublin that finished in June and now they can stay for 2 years to finish the coursework from home with unlimited working hours but only 15 hrs a week while in college itself

I assumed the college was a scam to be honest especially when they all worked in the same type of job back in India

scrotist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494510#Comment_122494510

Why mention brownness? I never did. No problem with that. Lots of Brazilians are black or brown and I want more of them to come! Thankfully I haven't met any doing IT jobs 😄

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494481#Comment_122494481

Not just difficulty finding a job, but you(and I), will be competing with them for finding a home, and a doctors/dentists appointment.

Instead of focussing on that one nationality, the question that needs to be asked is, is anyone keeping an eye on the numbers coming in?

looksee

A relative works in pharma and there appear to be 50% approx. Indians in the office/admin side (pharma has a lot of admin). The company have been trying to hire locally with no results, so they bring in staff from India, they really are not replacing locals, the locals are just not available. They get on fine, seems to be humour in the chat at work. Agreed they are not very interested in the pub/drink scene, but neither is the relative nor a couple of other Irish in the place; how many people expect work to provide a social life?

xyz13

You had your whole life ahead of you OP. What a shame you didn't take the opportunity to live abroad a couple years and experience the ins/outs of immigration...

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494556#Comment_122494556

We live in the most free market society since the robber baron period of 1880s America.

The rich will talk about solidarity, diversity and filling job vacancies but it is wider society that will live with the problems of this extreme approach.

God help anyone who is working class or not inheriting lots, the far right as they'll be know to the holier than thou rich kids

Managing the reserve army of labour used to be a left wing thing but today the left have a more free market view on that than Thatcher, Reagan was more on the same length.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494468#Comment_122494468

If someone leaves their job because there's no after works drinks, maybe they shouldn't be in that job. Especially not if it's in health care.

I've worked with plenty of indians. They have been great people. Sure there's been some assholes. But I'd say no more than any other nationality. I've known plenty of Irish spoofers. And I've carried plenty of them through group projects in college. In work i never saw an indian who needed to be carried. In my current team there's two indian girls. And both are great. One of them is the hardest working person I've ever known. To the point where I actually worry about her mental health.

So I don't mind if more come over. Indians, a great bunch of lads.

Donald Trump

Cowboys Ted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUHunfH0XbI

rowantree18

I did not and won't comment on their work. I said that as they tend not to take part in social life, as they become in the majority, the younger irish nurses leave as they want craic, banter and a social life via work - it was ever thus with nursing. Due to the hours nurses always tended to socialise together

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494513#Comment_122494513

That's the thing. I'm in service management at the moment in Germany. When they created our team, only one of the service managers was German. The rest were headhunted from abroad. I was sitting in Ireland and a recruiter reached out to me. Only one of the service managers, an Indian, was in Germany when they were interviewed.

IT positions are getting more and more niche. And so there's very few people who can fill those positions. And most are already in employment. So it's really hard to find the people to fill the positions.

Ezeoul

I had two seperate medical appointments last week, one with my dentist and one with Affidea for a scan, where the staff who looked after me were Indian nationals.

The nurse assisting my (Irish) dentist is actually herself a fully qualified dentist but is just waiting to pass her exams here again, so she can start practicing as a dentist herself. She was trained in the English language. Lovely lady. She told me her husband is also employed here in some kind of medical research.

The lady in Affidea who looked after my scan was also Indian, and very professional (as an aside, she was assisted by a Polish nurse).

Personally, I am very glad these nationalities are coming to Ireland to live and work, because without them our health services would be completely f*****.

scrotist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494556#Comment_122494556

True. I was mainly shocked at the huge proportion compared to other nationalities, and the fact that they'll "turk my jerbs" and hire only Indians when they get into positions of power, and maybe even follow the caste system. This is a big problem over in the states particularly with tech jobs.

Kurooi

I like to hear about legal, skilled migration for once. And Indians integrate well they somehow manage to preserve and celebrate their own culture while also not being hostile to others.

Though I can second the sentiment that this trend decreases wages. I've worked and talked to many Indian colleagues and they have a whole separate community here , the emigrants anyway, they live here organized in "India" 200 member whatsapp groups, separate ones based on what city or region they are from. They share jobs, accommodation, young lads come in live with family, friends, strangers, 2 to a room and 1 on the couch. That community spirit is commendable, but they are indeed up to working for low wages, and an Irish lad hoping to sustain a family or even a dignified living standard is going to struggle to compete.

And they are very much India first. If they climb to management they shoe in friends, family or even strangers off whatsapp groups before jobs are extended out to anyone else.

hello2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494481#Comment_122494481

add student visa nos to this list to surprise yourself more !

enricoh

Estate agent I know commented recently a huge proportion of buyers in an estate he was flogging were Indian.

Working away n paying their way- kinda people Ireland needs coming here.

I know truckers, welders and mechanics were complaining 20 years ago about Polish fellas working for less. A lot of fellas got out of them industries as a result and now there is shortages now so I get where the op is coming from.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494589#Comment_122494589

When I hear 'the company been trying to hire locally with no results' I just cringe. What that really means is they want someone with the qualifications and years of experience to come do a job for €30k and not be able to pay rent, so instead just get people who are accustomed to lower living standards.