Garden measurement's do not match the reality by 15 sq m

miresica

Hi all,

Hope you are all keeping well.

I have a quick question:

Just measured my garden and i am in shock. the planning permission says should be 106 sq m and there are 94.5.

How can I address this? and where?

Much appreciated your suggestions.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122504080#Comment_122504080

You are buying whatever was agreed in the contract of sale, talk to your solicitor.

muffler

Too little detail. Is this a new one off house or part of an estate? When did you buy? When was planning granted? Did you buy the site or house and site?

You need to elaborate a lot more than simply saying your garden is too small and asking what should you do.

miresica

thanks muffler. The house is part of an estate. Bought 4 years ago. Planning granted 2004. Bought all together ( house, front garden and back garden).

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364077/garden-measurements-do-not-match-the-reality-by-15-sq-m

The Time to address this if it is was of concern was prior to purchase.

A 15 sqm difference could be due to house placement on site varying slightly or a rear fence being located inside a rear boundary for example.

I don't really see this as a major issue and and save for where an obvious discrepancy can be seen versus your registered plot, I don't see an easy route to address this.

miresica

thanks. Unfortunately i wasn’t aware of this when purchased the house. I trusted that my solicitor and the surveyor would ve checked all the papers.

JVince

Maybe your measurements are wrong.

Certainly your calculation is wrong. Difference between 106 and 94.5 is 11.5

Figures in planning on garden size is never correct as there can be small variations on placement of the house.

It has no actual bearing on the title.

That it has taken you 20 years to notice tells you how unimportant it is

Jim_Hodge

Check land registry

landdirect.ie

Where did you measure from? Mine is from the middle of the road!

miresica

thanks so much. Right, my calculation is wrong, hands up. Purchased the house 4 years and have questioned before the measurements of the garden with my solicitor. Her answer was that i won’t have them as this is not a requirement in Ireland. However i found them in the planning permission application today. Why would they sell 106 sq m on paper however 94.5 in reality??

miresica

i am pretty sure i did the measurements right. I ll have an authorised person doing it as well. Do you know where can address this or with whom???

muffler

As stated above this should have been picked up with a pre-purchase survey which your solicitor should have advised you to get carried out. Also as it appears that you werent the first owner of the property the vendor would have been required to furnish a certificate of compliance and identity.

But as mickdw said there are several reasons why the garden may not have correlated with planning layout. Also Jim_Hodge is correct in that you should check initially on landdirect.ie to see how the boundaries are looking and if necessary order a copy of the map and folio of the property. Costs just €40.

After you have the map you can arrange to get a digital survey of the property done. An engineer, land surveyor, arch technician etc will do this.

Finally I cant really see it being an issue on the short term Even if you wanted to extend the house and build a garden shed under the exemptions you will still have in excess of 25 m2 remaining which is a condition of exempted development for extensions and sheds. The only problem you would likely face is if you ever were to sell in the future. This may then be picked up in a survey.

mickdw

To be honest, it is only the overall site layout area that is required to correspond with what is registered.

I carry out pre purchase surveys and I would only be checking boundary on the ground versus registered boundary as well as checking the planning site layout to ensure it corresponds with overall plot. An actual Garden area is not something I've ever checked and tbh rarely seen recorded on a drawing.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122496615#Comment_122496615

You didn’t buy the planning permission. You bought a house and site as built. As it was on the ground.

The planning is largely irrelevant here. Have you checked that there wasn’t any AI or FI that altered the site layouts. Your garden meets minimum standards by quite a bit.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122496837#Comment_122496837

Oh I agree with all that as I've done a load of them myself over the years and never was asked to state the area of a front or rear garden. However I have, just like yourself, been asked to confirm the area of the overall plot on a few occasions and confirm that the house position complies with the planning layout. If there is a difference in the position of the house then its easy to see and confirm where a bit of garden was lost or gained.

miresica

much appreciated your response. I understand and I have asked the questions when purchased the house. As said my solicitor advised that what I see is what I get. So, what you are saying is that the planning permission doesn’t have to corespondent with the actual plot? There has to be something that i can do!

Peregrinus

I suppose the real question is, have you got the plot you thought you were buying? Never mind how much of it is given over to a garden; does the total area of the plot correspond to the area you thought you were buying?

If the answer to that is "no" then you haved a much bigger beef than the size of your garden. You should be looking at suing the surveyor you engaged at the time of the purchase, since this is something he should have spotted.

If the answer is "yes", then the position seems to be this: the planning permission stipulated that 106 sq m of your plot should be used as a garden, and in fact only 94.5 sq m is being so used. You can fix this yourself by increasing the size of your garden though this obviously will require a corresponding reduction in the area of the plot that is used for other purposes. Plus, you will need to make sure that you don't fix it in a way that involves a breach of some other planning condition.

If it's impossible to fix in a way that doesn't breach some planning requirement then the problem lies with the planning permission; it imposes a set of conditions that are, taken together, impossible to comply with. But, honestly, it's not very likely that this is the case.

miresica

thank you for your answer. I have checked the surveyors pre purchase email - it says structural pre check. Does this mean that he was only to assess the structure of the house? He was recommended by the broker that helped with buying the house.

miresica

i dont know the total area of the plot.

miresica

have checked the surveyors report. It says that he wasn’t instructed to check the measurements of the plot.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497048#Comment_122497048

No . You're too late . You did not buy from the planning permission you bought what you saw. And you were happy with what you saw. Let it go!

miresica

this is very sad. Thanks 🙏
does anyone have any other opinions or experiences that can share?

Dav010

Surely if the size of the site was contentious, it would have been when the house was bought initially off the developer. Every sale after that would have been the boundary as it existed when the first buyer bought it.
Op, is the current boundary consistent with what the previous owner was selling? Your solicitor should have the boundary map.

miresica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497510#Comment_122497510

Thank you very much for your answer.

I didnt alter any boundary, however one of my neighbours paid me a visit shortly after moving in with a request of signing a paper that I agree for him to build on my property a boundary fence, that was already there. I didnt sign, however shortly after I have noticed a request in the planning permission that was granted and the previous owner agreeing to give him 2 inches of his (now mine) property. - the fence was buit few months before me buying the house, however the planning application was done after I moved in the house. Have to mention that I wasnt aware of any of this when I was buying.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497548#Comment_122497548

I wouldn't sign anything unless I was sure, but I wouldn't argue over a few inches to maintain friendly relations.

miresica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497593#Comment_122497593

only if it would ve been few inches…

Padre_Pio

To your original point, there's nothing you can do.

The house is built and the garden size wasn't raised as an issue when you bought it.

I don't know what remediation you may ask for. The builder isn't liable since the house is standing 20 years at this stage and the previous owner is gone too. There's no way to recover anything financially and it's not like you can take land from your neighbours. Even if the land registry doesn't match with your boundaries, I don't think you can do anything.

miresica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497629#Comment_122497629

I understand :(, however when the previous owner sold the house to me he didnt sell the same property as he had purchased from the builder.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497652#Comment_122497652

How so?

miresica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497666#Comment_122497666

if the neigbours built the boundary fence on my property how can it be the same? (the previous owner signed a paper where allows them to build on the property 2 inchies, i reckon is way more, that i wasnt aware of when buying the house) - hence it s obvious that is not the same plot, is less. I hope it makes sense…

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497689#Comment_122497689

You can always tell your neighbour to move the fence back, whatever agreement he had with the previous owner is not relevant. You own what the folio says you own, end of story.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497689#Comment_122497689

Makes perfect sense to me, from reading your first post my initial thought was the missing square meters didn't just vanish, they are still there but somebody else has illegally claimed them.

miresica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497739#Comment_122497739

Much much appreciated! I dont know whats on the folio. I have the folio and the red map however there are no figures.