Roundabouts—give way to the right

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498039#Comment_122498039

What he's referring to is the idiots who, when approaching the roundabout, indicate right regardless of what exit they are intending to leave the roundabout by. Their twisted logic being (presumably) that since they are turning their steering wheel to the right, they must indicate right.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498039#Comment_122498039

True, but I see plenty of people indicating left to enter the roundabout, then starting to indicate right as they follow the roundabout to the right and then go all the way round and exit at 3 O Clock, we know you are turning left onto the roundabout, you have no choice in that matter, they should only indicate left on entry if they are taking the 9 O Clock Exit

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497032#Comment_122497032

Whoever gets to the roundabout first essentially has the right to enter if unimpeded.

However in reality, drivers who are following a main road, say a primary route entering a roundabout often consider they have the right to drive straight on and that those entering from more minor roads should give way to them.

They're wrong but that doesn't really help and best just to watch and be prepared to stop and let them at it to avoid accidents.

On a separate matter, what genius thought of mixing unsegregated cycle lines with traffic roundabouts?? A recipe for disaster.

AlanG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122496826#Comment_122496826

Anyone approaching a yield sign who cannot stop due to their speed is in the wrong, roundabout or not.

moonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499040#Comment_122499040

But there is difference in that the car is already on the main road and has priority and minor roads have to yield. Even if it speeding it still has priority.

Whereas in the case of a roundabout the circle is the main road and if a car hasn't yet reached its give way lines then the cars on or entering the roundabout have priority.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499395#Comment_122499395

Whereas in the case of a roundabout the circle is the main road and if a car hasn't yet reached its give way lines then the cars on or entering the roundabout have priority.

That's not a very accurate statement. Cars on the roundabout always have priority, but cars entering it may not. There are four entrances to most roundabouts and each entrance has to give way to traffic on the right. So if one car is entering, the next one on the left has to give way.

This isn't rocket science, but the discussion here has me scratching my head. If the car on your right is entering or about to enter the roundabout or even stopped waiting to enter the roundabout, you MUST give them the right of way. Other distances may require judgment as to whether it's safe for you to enter or not. The same judgment you have to exercise when joining a main road from a side road. If you can do it safely, then go. Otherwise stop.

moonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499050#Comment_122499050

"Traffic already on the roundabout" could also mean traffic straight in front of you or to your left.

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499102#Comment_122499102

You should indicate left on entering the roundabout if taking the first exit, irrespective of where the first exit is.

Viscount Aggro

I read about a court case where someone crashed into the back of a car on a roundabout.

It was judged to be the first cars fault. They stopped on the roundabout, which you are not allowed to do.

mulbot

Another huge problem seems to be position on roundabouts. People entering, taking the inside lane (used for 3rd exit or subsequent exits, , then cutting lanes to the 2nd exit. Crazy

extra-ordinary_

ahh…roundabouts…can see this thread going to many pages…lol

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499395#Comment_122499395

Not according to the rules of the road

JohnC.

A lot of it will be common sense if you give way or not, surely? And depending on the size of the roundabout. Could be a small roundabout and you entering at the same time as another car could put you in its way. Or a large roundabout where it wouldn't be a problem. Or a very large one where you can't even see the previous entry point.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498039#Comment_122498039

Correct. But look at the number of people who indicate RIGHT because they are going onto the roundabout - then they indicate left after entering the roundabout.

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499429#Comment_122499429

You Do not have to wait for a vehicle stopped at a roundabout waiting to enter, if they're waiting for a car to come from the right you may have plenty time to go

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499853#Comment_122499853

See all the 'ifs' and 'mays' in your post? That's the bit in my post that's covered by "judgment" and "safely".

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499875#Comment_122499875

Then "MUST" is not the appropriate term to use in this situation, to then say it's up to "judgement" nullifies anything said before that which is wrong as we're dealing with law, which as we all know doesn't allow for bad judgement calls

Gooser14

What really annoys me on roundabouts is when the driver stays in the inner lane & then cuts across the outer lane at the last moment to exit rather than moving into the outer lane before reaching their chosen exit. I mean, if they were turning left off a straight road rather than a roundabout would they stay in the r/h lane until they reach their l/h exit & then do a sharp l/h turn across the l/h lane. Perhaps they would.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499891#Comment_122499891

Yes it is. Because they have right of way. If you pull out as they do and they hit you, you're at fault. If another car is on the roundabout (in your scenario), they have right of way first. So either way you have to yield.

Judgment only comes into it if the car they are yielding to, turns onto your road, giving you a chance to get on the roundabout without causing an accident. But it doesn't give you right of way.

But you go ahead and tell me when you think you have right of way over traffiic from your left.

BrianD3

All I can say is - Jesus Wept

There is nothing in the ROTR about giving way to vehicles approaching a roundabout. The ROTR says "yield to traffic coming from the right or traffic already on the roundabout". The first part of this could be interpreted in several different ways. But on a fundamental level, to enter a roundabout, a driver must pass a yield sign/line. That means that drivers already on the roundabout have priority. Also, as a roundabout is a single way, clockwise carriageway, any driver already on it is coming from the right of any driver waiting to join it.

If you are on the roundabout, anyone approaching it has yield. In practice, what we get are dickheads approaching the roundabout at speed who can't stop even if they tried to and haven't considered anything other than traffic they can see to their right. They're in the wrong and are dangerous drivers but because there are so many of them, its wise to yield to them - which then has the negative effect of validating their bad driving.

Road engineers deliberately restrict visibility at roundabouts to try to slow people down. If they didn't, things would likely be worse.

It's not different to entering a main road from a side road. If you are doing that you yield to traffic already on the main road. You don't (or shouldn't have to) give way to traffic approaching from other side roads on the same side of the main road.

PS the "right" in "right of way" has nothing to do with, as seems to have been suggested on here, yielding to vehicles on the right

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499936#Comment_122499936

Now you're Just making up stuff in your head. Traffic from the left???? You Do not have to yield if you have plenty time to go, thus my point about traffic stopped to your right waiting on traffic from their right.

Larbre34

Its not ambiguous at all.

Everyone has an obligation to observe due care, yet make reasonable progress.

If you're at your yield line, and he's at his yield line, and you know you have a powerful enough car that you'll be long gone by the time he gets anywhere near you on the roundabout, then you MUST move off.

Driving is not about just having a pink plastic card in your pocket and adhering absolutely to a set of rules; its about judgement, discretion and experience.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500085#Comment_122500085

Therein lies the issue. If every driver observed the rotr and exercised due care roundabouts would be a fantastic mechanism to allow traffic to flow effectively, which is the theory behind their design. Of course reality is that the weak point, as ever, is the driver.

The biggest issue is the random use/non use of indicators. It's gone to the point that I'm starting to distrust a car approaching a roundabout with left indicator on. Is the driver actually going to take the 1st exit or some random subsequent exit? Is the driver with no indicator going straight ahead or will they actually take the 1st exit? Who the hell knows?

Similarly on small roundabouts when your waiting to enter but the line of traffic entering from you right consider they have unlimited right of way and will barrel through at speed to the point that it is a judgement call that if you enter will they slow down enough to avoid an accident. Essentially they treat the roundabout like a traditional junction expecting you to wait until all traffic from right has cleared. Fine if you're a confident driver and can judge their speed and pull out smartly but unfortunately a lot of drivers cannot exercise such judgement and almost require a lollipop person to stop the oncoming traffic to allow them to enter. At that point the free flow benefits of roundabouts are completely negated and its time to throw in the towel and install the dreaded light controlled roundabouts😀. In summary, using roundabouts is like Russuan roulette at times.

scrubs33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500936#Comment_122500936

Your last line sums up my experiences perfectly. Cars and roundabouts now are a crazy mix of positioning, indicators, pot luck and pure chance. I’ve wondered should there be a public safety campaign, ads on the tv for example, explaining how they work? I think there were some in the old days but with many many more cars on the road now it’s needed more than ever.

liamog

I'd add the significant inability to use multi lane roundabouts to the pot. When you add the people who treat the multi lanes as if they don't exist and try and take a racing line around the roundabout to the people who will just use the left lane to go as far as they need to it's an absolute mess.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501022#Comment_122501022

There was definitely an advert on TV during the 1980s about correct use of roundabouts, using 80s-style 'block graphics' to illustrate how and when to indicate. I remember relying on the advert to prove a point to a friend of mine when I was learning to drive myself.

Can't find it on YouTube, but there's this much more recent effort from the RSA -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZPurrWm6Xw

Can't help thinking that the guy might be marked down on a driving test for 'failing to make progress' as he approaches the roundabout, but at least he negotiates the roundabout properly anyway!

moonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500085#Comment_122500085

You say it's not ambiguous but this thread shows that there are two camps regarding the meaning of "give way to traffic coming from the right".

One side says coming from the right refers to just those already on the roundabout. The other side extends this to also include those not yet at the roundabout but approaching it.

I'm in the first camp. If you arrive at the roundabout first and can establish priority you shouldn't have to give way to those approaching from a junction to the right who aren't even at the roundabout yet. This is the most logical and fair interpretation of "give way to traffic coming from the right" since the circle of a roundabout is the major road—a one way carriageway with traffic going clockwise, with the junctions as minor roads that have to give way to the right.

joebloggs32

If four cars arrived at exactly the same time on an empty roundabout with 4 equidistant entry points and they all were waiting to give way to the car at the entry to their right then no one eould be entitled to enter under that interpretation.

Its really common sense. Give way to a vehicle on your right if its a case that your entry will impede them. Otherwise drive ahead.

moonage

Here's an example from England of a taxi driver who believes that because he's to the right, the car to his left shouldn't have emerged and should have given way to him. But clearly she arrived at the roundabout well before him and has priority.

At 6:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyzqZdYlCqU

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122503195#Comment_122503195

also in this case there was a car turning right,so there was no way the taxi could have reached that point on the roundabout. He rants about the driver watching him, that was a wise thing to do.