GAA Go Games

HurlingBoy

For age categories that are Go Games i.e U6 -U12 can you play competitive matches i.e keep the score, have a winner and present a cup or give medals to the winners. I understand in general that these age group are meant to be about taking part and non competitive but can a club run a competition where scores are kept and cup presented or is this in violation of the the rules.

joebloggs32

The short answer is no, you can't.

If you seek permission from your county board to sanction a blitz or tournament etc they will not provide it.

However, this being the GAA plenty of clubs put in for a tournament following the go games rules and then just ignore them the day.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364157/gaa-go-games

First thing is that the 'Go Games' model only actually applies up to U11. For U12s, you can run a League all right, but not a championship. From the Rule Book:

County Boards therefore won't run competitive tournaments for U11s down. As for tournaments organised by clubs - strictly speaking, they're against the rules, but like @joebloggs32 said, it's one of those rules that's 'more honoured by the breach than the observance'.

Have been to quite a few tournaments at U10 and U11 levels myself over the past few years, and also involved in an U11 tournament my own club runs. Generally the case that everybody gets a medal, no matter what their results. Also often the case that everybody plays a 'final' of some sort - e.g. if there are two groups of four, then first plays first in their 'final', second plays second in their 'final', etc.

You're not supposed to hand out a trophy to overall winners, but I've never heard of a club facing sanction for this. And there are ways round it too. For example, in the tournament we run ourselves, we say the cup winners are judged on the basis of things like sportsmanship and respect for opponents and mentors, as well as their results. It's just coincidence that the ones showing most respect etc. every year are also the ones who win most or all of their group matches, and the "first-placed" final as well!

HurlingBoy

Thanks for the info. I remember years ago U12 was normal competitive games. I know its all about participation but 11/12 year old know if they have won or lost so not sure why these are GO Games at that age.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122503157#Comment_122503157

Again, Go Games go up to U11 only. But yes, it's true that nine, ten and eleven-year-olds keep the score of Go Games themselves and know if they're winning or losing, even if it's not supposed to matter.

So, what you're asking is actually a big question, that was considered at length before Go Games were introduced at all.

The whole ethos of Go Games is literally that everybody gets a go. At U9 for example, if you've a squad of 30, you'll divide them up into teams of seven and run somebody in and out every few minutes to make sure that the other two get plenty of game time as well. You'll also mix your teams up so that each one has some of your stronger lads, some of the weaker, and some of those in between, instead of putting out an 'A' team, 'B' team, etc.

And while the young lads may experience temporary joy at winning on the day itself, or temporary disappointment at losing, it doesn't really matter in the long run as there are no trophies or titles at stake.

Issue arises then however at the cut-off age where things transition from Go Games to competitive matches. Twelve-year-olds are in their first year out of Go Games, and some parents who are used to seeing their lad play in every match (no matter how he goes) start asking questions and maybe getting argumentative when he's no longer guaranteed a run.

You stand accused then of being an egotistical coach who's only concerned with winning, rather than making sure everybody gets to play. It's a no-win situation.

Fact of the matter is that sooner or later, things will become competitive, and if you're not in the top 18 to 20 of your squad, then you're not going to play much. Currently this happens at age 12, which some people argue is too young. But if you make it any later, you're only postponing the inevitable anyway.

As I said, it's a big question….

MattressRick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507169#Comment_122507169

Are you not supposed to have no subs for Go Games? We have U6, they always keep the score, well boys always do anyway. But we never have subs. Always have 5 or 6 per team, no subs, take turns in goal etc

beggars_bush

I've no issue with go games

The issue is adults forcing adult rules on children

Once every child gets to play, a good rule is that every child must play one half of a game and the keeper must be changed

Coaches are often the problem, unwilling to split their squads into smaller teams and keep their stronger players together

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508404#Comment_122508404

When stronger and weaker are mixed the weaker ones get very little ball and when they don't get on the ball they are not going to improve.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508393#Comment_122508393

Whether or not you end up with subs is simply a numbers thing on the day. You wouldn't decide in advance that you were going to leave off Tommy and Billy and Jack. But if you turn up with 30 players and the other club only has 27, then obviously you have to leave three off somewhere if the games are to be between even numbers, and you just run lads in and out every few minutes.

At the younger groups like the U6s you mention, the other club might allow you to put in an extra player per team anyway, so that maybe you end up with seven playing against six. But that's less likely to happen when you get up to the older Go Games groups of U10s & U11s.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508704#Comment_122508704

Yes, that's a valid consideration.

An equally valid one is that if you consistently split the group into A, B, C and D teams (with A being the strongest players and D being the weakest), there can be a stigma to always or nearly always being on the C or D team. And coaches have to deal with parents asking "why is my lad always on the D team, he's every bit as good as Johnny on the B team?"

Another point of view is whether or not lads will actually improve if they only ever play on a D team, against other D teams? They'd get away with things that you wouldn't get away with against stronger players, and so may not even see the need to improve, "because I always do well in my games".

Anyway, the important thing here is that both clubs do the same when they meet. No point in one club mixing lads up, and the other streaming them according to playing strength. That just makes for lop-sided games at both ends.

HurlingBoy

It is certainly a huge balance act trying to keep everyone happy, children, parents opposition coaches etc. The stronger, competitive kids want to win and come of the field demoralised with a defeat. The coach has to give everyone equal game time. Parents of the stronger kids want them to win and come home happy. There is a risk that these kids may lose interest and stop coming if they don't win games(even though scores are not meant to be kept but kids know they have lost). Unfortunately the weaker kids are possibly going to fall away once they get to competitive age groups. It's a no win situation.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509018#Comment_122509018

We don't have big numbers so we only ever have a A & B and switch some of the middle of the road ones over and back during the games.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509263#Comment_122509263

That sounds fair enough. Anyway, has to operate differently across clubs, depending on the numbers they have.

I'm with one of the larger rural clubs in Co. Wexford, where the underage grades are done on an "even age" basis - i.e. U6, U8, U10, U12, etc.

There's the occasional blitz run here for U6, and regular Go Games for U8 and U10. At U6 and U8, we'd have 40-something players, so on a match day, we'd be looking at maybe seven or eight groups of six, or something like that.

At U10, we'd still have close to 40, so we'd be fielding maybe six groups of six. Again, the exact breakdown depends on the numbers that the other club or clubs bring (we're often put against two other clubs at the same time, because many other clubs only have around half the number of players we do).

At U12, things move to a League basis (13-a-side, but with the clubs having the option to agree to play 15-a-side). We have numbers in the low 30s here, so we field two teams. This is where we start splitting them according to ability all right. Our 'A' teams are in Div. 1 of both codes, and our 'B' teams in Div. 6