Couples on 107K can’t afford a home

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523173#Comment_122523173

to suggest that they balance each other out is disingenuous

Where did I say that?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523173#Comment_122523173

Yikes..class of a house would cost you 2k a month?

You aren't including electricity, heating etc in that are you?....which you would probably have to pay in most rented houses on top of rent

Just totting up house tax, maintenance here and nowhere near 24k......we must be talking country mansions or luxury pads on the coast!

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523173#Comment_122523173

The reason to rent and not to buy is if you intend to move frequently or soon.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523280#Comment_122523280

Thats how your post reads, otherwise what was the point you were trying to make?

GreeBo

That's exactly the point. Once you have paid off a mortgage all of those repayments are now cash in your hand.
So despite any scaremongering about how expensive it is to own a house and all of the "hidden" costs, there is a predetermined point in the future when you stop paying your single largest outgoing.

On the other side, you never finish paying off your rent until you die. With state pensions around €1K/month, I know I wouldn't want to be paying rent when/if I retire.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122508497#Comment_122508497

And that's the nub of the issue. Proof market is dysfunctional.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519026#Comment_122519026

If you're saying people who don't qualify for social or affordable end up paying more because supply is decreased, that's understandable.

My own view is as someone who got completely burnt last boom / bust is the idea of banks wanting to make as much money as possible by lending as much as possible means they don't really care how much people are getting ripped off by because they just want to make more money. Same with the person who owns the land. Neither actually do much work and make too much money.

Iecrawfc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122524868#Comment_122524868

That's making the assumption that people will be able to pay off their mortgage before they retire, that's not a given now with house prices 7 or 8 times annual salary...

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520721#Comment_122520721

Personally, I beleive there is a time in your life in Ireland where renting is fine. No issues whatsover with it. If you want to be relatively mobile, not have to deal with large repair bills or costs that might hit you from time to time it is ideal. However as you get older and perhaps what some form of stability in your live, renting - in ireland anyway is not the way to go.

I've seen numerous families near where I live who have rented, some have pets etc - landlord decides he wants to sell, very difficult for those families to find another place locally (as their kids are in local schools) and unfortuantely they've had to up root their families and move elsewhere. Which is difficult for a family.

There's costs associated with owning a home, no doubt, but you get a lot for that - and at the end of the day you are going to own something at the end of you paying for it, something tangible that gives you more options if you want to sell/move/downsize/etc in later years.

Despite the "protections" that have improved for renters in the past few decades in Ireland, there are simply to many downsides to it as you get older, particularly with a family.

Yeah, in your late teens, and twenties, when you want that bit of flexibility but right now even that is almost unsustainable due to the lack of accomodation etc.

Its simply a reality in this country that owning your own home is, in general a better position to be in, rather than renting for the vast majority of the population - that's not really something you could argue against, given the vageries of our rental market.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525985#Comment_122525985

You wont get a mortgage past retirement age though…

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507580#Comment_122507580

People want houses with a garden, I raised a kid in a duplex and I watch the amount of joy a garden brings to my toddler in our house now and I regret living there so long.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122528536#Comment_122528536

This is the thing. There is only so much land in Dublin. If you want a house with a garden inside the M50, then you are going to have to displace someone else with a house with a garden inside the M50.

I wanted a house in Killiney near my parents, I ended up in Dublin 15. It is the fate of successive generations to move outwards.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525985#Comment_122525985

As stated a mortgage term will generally only go up as far as retirement age. Which is another reason that you'd need to get on a property prior to 35 or 40 in order to keep the term payments manageable.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122522157#Comment_122522157

A couple of slight differences in Australia,. One, they invest in infrastructure. I lived there til 2016, since I left they have built a new light rail and a new metro in Sydney (the metro goes under Sydney harbour, good engineering). Secondly, they aren't afraid to knock down buildings to build better and bigger ones, even if they building to be destroyed was only built in recent times. Compare that to Ireland, where we do not have any imminent plans for new transport schemes, and you cannot get planning permission anywhere without loads of objections being submitted.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122523723#Comment_122523723

In most countries it's cheaper to rent. But looking at apartments to rent and buy in Ireland it's far more costly to rent. If you have the money, even in this hyper inflated market, it makes sense to buy.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122530443#Comment_122530443

From an OECD Report on housing taxation:

"Mortgage interest relief is also widespread across countries, particularly for rented property."

That isn't the case in Ireland.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122530458#Comment_122530458

I think part of it is the short term outlook as well. When people buy to rent in other countries they generally look at it as a long term investment. They budget it in such a way that they will have the asset paid off in 30 years. they may/may not have to put some of their own money into it but the idea is that after 30 years they own the place and at that point they can either sell or they can use the rent as passive income. But still for the 30 years, they don't expect to get anything from it.

In ireland a lot of the time it's viewed as something that should be making money now. So they try to squeeze everything they can out of it.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122530458#Comment_122530458

Landlords claim mortgage interest as a deductible expense against their rental income.

A tenant can't claim mortgage interest relief, for obvious reasons.

Mortgage interest relief was brought in for 2023 income tax, to appease the people who signed up for tracker rates, and had it good for many years. Not a word out of them when they were paying very little interest, but then they were crying from the rooftops when their mortgage interest rate did exactly what the terms of their contract said it would do...track ECB interest rates.

Who else should get mortgage interest relief?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122530478#Comment_122530478

What were the specifics of that 2023 mortgage interest relief for those on trackers?

I think any group of people are well within their rights to "complain/make representation" when something negatively effects their life - its up to the decision makers to balance up the pros and cons of doing something about it.

The same as renters, those who wish to buy but can't etc etc

Various schemes have been put in place to assit people with housing and in fairness most of the arguments on here around them would be to do away with any interventions in the housing market by the state whatsoever.

People have said earlier that building more houses is the answer to our problems - again an obvious answer and the correct one but it totally disregards WHY there aren't more houses being built. The environment isn't there to build on a price point that is sustainable and until that happens it's hard to see massive numbers of houses being built and if they are, as currently, there will be significant state supports involved - which again - goes against the opinions of many.

Geuze

I think the reasons more houses aren't being built is because the costs are too high relative to the possible selling price.

By that I mean land costs + finance costs + expected 15% profits are high, relative to the selling price that the buyers can afford.

The answer is much lower land costs.

I think I heard Ronan Lyons suggest that land costs per unit in Dublin need to be 10k, rather than 100k:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3DT0z6lluk&list=PLJjOGbOqUE_L3UAEcVMK3u8wBh4HbFfh2&index=6

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531564#Comment_122531564

The reason more houses aren't being built is because of the planning system. We can tell because they are trying to build far more than they are being allowed build.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531479#Comment_122531479

The mortgage interest relief is for anyone whose mortgage interest was higher in 2023 than 2022. But I don't understand why it should be given to anyone, variable or trackers included. These were adults who took out a mortgage and signed a contract which stipulated how the interest was to be calculated. The interest was then charged, in line with the agreement that was made, and the mortgage holders got annoyed by that. Doesn't make sense to me.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531672#Comment_122531672

So what's the issue with the planning system that the root cause of our issues with supply?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532400#Comment_122532400

They are many, though assuming everyone will own a car, that traffic is worse than homelessness and that they give too much weight to local and political opposition are some of them.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531564#Comment_122531564

…and governments unwilling to implement policies such as an appropriate lvt, along side other policies, to try deal with it!

….shur on we march, be grand!

Galwayguy35

Few nice houses being built in the village I live in, under 300 k and they have a front garden, bit of space at the back and a shed as well.

Most people have a car these days so there are options for couples who don't mind living in more rural areas.