Davy the new Antrim manager.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122546962#Comment_122546962

So one Munster championship win in four season is a good return to you? Or one of the biggest losses in both Munster and All-Ireland finals with Waterford?

Even when the facts are actually put in front of you still won't accept it.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548586#Comment_122548586

I never said anything was a "good return". I said he improves teams. Before he took over Waterford in 2022 they had won one game from the previous eleven in Munster. In his two years there since Waterford won a match in both years in a competitive arena. That's an improvement.

What qualifies as a "good return" is a different matter. Not quite sure what the expectations of Waterford were in a province with the 2020-23 All Ireland champions, the 2024 All Ireland champions, and two other counties that have won big at under 21/20 in recent years. But they certainly improved when Fitzgerald joined them.

Likewise, Antrim won't lose by 32 points to Kilkenny in 2025 Leinster championship.

Knockdromin

The two seasons pre Davy; AI semi finalists one year, league champions the next followed by a Munster campaign where they were eliminated in the final round.

Two seasons under Davy, will start next season in the second tier of the league, one win in Munster in 23 after they were already eliminated, and one win in 24 which included what was quite frankly ludicrous outrage against officials for not making the WRONG decision in Ennis.

Cahill inherited a team that had a horrendous championship in 2019. The final championship ended in disappointment but overall Waterford were competitive under Cahill.

I don’t accept at all that Davy brought them on at all. Cahill 2020-2022 > Davy 2023-2024

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122562767#Comment_122562767

Wow yo just keep changing the goalposts don't you?

So you think one Munster championship win four seasons is an improvement?

Also, as already stated, before he took Waterford in the seasons before they had been in an All-Ireland final and won the league. Yet you think winning two games in two seasons is somehow an ''improvement''.

Explain to us how you think three championship wins since 2020 is ''improving'' a team?

If Antrim do get some hammerings next season what excuse will you have then?

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122564970#Comment_122564970

If you (not sure who "us" is? Have you more than one username?) want to see my point about improving teams it's in a previous post. You either accept it or you don't. Either way is fair enough. But there's no brownie points for just keeping it going for the sake of it. You won't be on your deathbed looking back regretting you didn't keep more online arguments going.

One new point I will make is.............a couple of posters (maybe you're both of them......as in "us") mentioned the League. Seriously, gimme a break. Pre-season competitions don't matter and aren't a guide to anything as Liam Cahill and Waterford found out in 2022. It is a bluffer's argument.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122571836#Comment_122571836

''Us'' is everyone on this thread you're trying to justify to.

Since when has the league been a pre season competition? If that's your logic than poor Davy had even less of an impact with Clare did he not? Also you're once again changing the goalposts to suit yourself. Are you going to ignore that Waterford were in a Munster and All-Ireland final in he years before he took over? Seeing as how fast you were to mention other things before he took over?

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574680#Comment_122574680

"Us"? This has been a very quiet thread considering the easy target involved. "Us" it seems means you and is a desperate attempt to imply you have hundreds agreeing with you. Since you have decided to keep this going forever if needs be at least summon the courage to stand up your own points.

As for "poor Davy" (why do you always use his first name?!) having less of an impact because of the League? Yeah, definitely if that's the measure. The League is irrelevant. If you dismiss winning an All Ireland fair enough (but maybe justifying that would be good) but what happens in the League, a pre-season puckaround, does not make or break a manager.

As for ignoring Waterford being in a Munster and All Ireland final before Fitzgerald arrived? Who ignored that? Just not relevant given Waterford's nosedive after. Of more relevance is that their record of one win in eleven starts in Munster before he arrived was definitely not great. It doesn't suit you but that's what he inherited.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576791#Comment_122576791

You're the only one who's saying the League doesn't matter. Where i have i or anyone for that matter dismissed him winning an All-Ireland? Again you're making up things to suit yourself.

As for your question about using his first name. What other name am i supposed to use? Again with the ''easy target'' why don't you explain what it is you mean by that?

You ignored it. You said what happened before he came in didn't matter. It's just funny how you keep going on about him winning games in Munster with Waterford yet totally ignore the fact about his record in the seasons before that. Or are you going to somehow have an excuse for that as well? Something Davy is quite good at as well.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577623#Comment_122577623

You could call him Davy Fitzgerald? Bit of a mad notion maybe. Unless of course he's a personal friend. I am really really worried what you call him by the way. That'll be on my mind all evening.

As for me "being the only one who's saying the League doesn't matter"......what about it? I said anyone else said it. And I would be the last person in the world to be influenced by what others are saying or not saying. I can actually form my own opinions and stand them up. Not a bother. The League is a harmless winter competition no manager is judged by. It's desperation to reference it.

Quitelife

from talking to some Antrim supporters, getting into the top 3 in Leinster or even a Leinster final is the ambition in the next two years , regardless of peoples thoughts on Davy it would be great to see Antrim achieve this as a neutral

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122579231#Comment_122579231

You don't stand up for them though do you? You just dismiss anyone who disagrees with you.

It's been over 20 years since the League was played in the winter, maybe you should get a bit up to date with what's actually going on.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122580310#Comment_122580310

Three sentences in that post with the word "you" in all of them. Thought we were talking about "Davy", no?

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122579250#Comment_122579250

Indeed. They have a proper chance to improve anyway. They might be like Wexford, reaching a Leinster final, winning another, and then a few years later relieved to be back among the also-rans with a different manager. But he'll make Antrim more difficult to beat certainly.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581669#Comment_122581669

Are you not the one making these points? Also what's ''Davy'' about? Again is that not his name? Or do you now also disagree with that? Why won't you actually answer any questions when it's something you don't like?

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581691#Comment_122581691

When invariably all ends in tears what excuse will you have then?

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582115#Comment_122582115

"Davy" might be what his mother calls him, his friends maybe. I wouldn't know him that well to be honest never having met him.

And what questions are there? This has been done to death. I said that Fitzgerald improved teams, and you agreed (not intentionally of course) using the phrase "a good burst". Could've been left at that.

Notwithstanding pointless tangents about the League and four or five year records (who ever said Fitzgerald did well in counties long-term? Even Brian Cody failed in the long-run) the only thing that's keeping it going is your determination to be a hero and not back down.

But fire away if you want to keep it going.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582787#Comment_122582787

You keep saying he's an ''easy target'' but won't explain what you mean.

Wow now you're trying to claim he's somehow on a level with Brian Cody.

No i'm just trying to show you that your hero Davy isn't what you think he is. It's not my problem you won't accept anything anyone has to say.

Asdfgh2020

maybe Mr/Mrs Rosita (or should I have used ‘they/them’) is actually related to ‘Davy’ or even is Davy himself…🤣

One think for sure Davy/Mr Fitzgerald most definitely did not ‘improve’ waterford in his ‘second coming’ won two Munster games came close in two other this year but still only two wins. And as for the league……not that it matters these days a whole lot but he took it so ‘seriously’ that he got them relegated to lower tier

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583972#Comment_122583972

Never said he was on the same level as Brian Cody. Those are your words. Reasonable levels of comprehension will figure out the point I was making.

DF is an "easy target" because he's regularly vilified here and elsewhere. People often resent those in the TV a lot. But the point is that if you target Fitzgerald you won't have many here who'll challenge you. Therefore a soft easy target.

I never said he was my hero. Those are your words.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584221#Comment_122584221

But you said Brian Cody failed in the long term. What was the point in saying that? Are you saying Davy is also a failure?

Maybe the reason you won't find people challenging about him is because it's true? Unless of course most people are wrong? You've yet to say anything to suggest otherwise. Also since when has this been about him being on TV? I thought it was about him in management? Or are you just changing your story again to suit you agreement?

As for the last point. Why are you so worried about what other people have to say about him then?

supernova5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583997#Comment_122583997

only a very close fried or family member could defend him that much, [or maybe not even]

Rosita

The point of saying that Brian Cody failed in the long term (the point of saying it is actually clear in context - read the posts more carefully before jumping to contradict) is because every manager fails in the long term as teams and players they rely on decline. You are going on about Fitzgerald's long term record. You acknowledged that he improves teams ("a good burst" was your phrase). That'll do. He'll be at Antrim for 2/3 years and as a professional hurling manager he will avail of a better offer elsewhere. His long term record is irrelevant that sense.

funkey_monkey

Ah jesus. I opened this expecting some interesting discussion on how and where Antrim can improve over the next few years, targets and suchlike.

Disappointing.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588923#Comment_122588923

I'd love to see you try and explain how Brian Cody failed? No every manager doesn't fail in the long team. Again would love to see you explain that one also?

Also i'm not talking about his long term record, you're making that up, at all. How can he have a long term record anywhere when he jumps ship as soon it goes wrong and that's always within two years.

He does give teams a good burst but few managers have left teams in the state he has after he has left, bit you're too blind to see that and much like the man himself blame everyone else when it happens.

growleaves

People get sick of his personality and his "antics", fighting with referees and presiding over a media circus, which is understandable.

But he can do a lot with the raw clay of a small team. He's a natural leader.

I wouldn't have been disappointed if he had been selected as Dublin manager, I'd've been exited, because I think part of the problem there is player's lack of confidence leaving to unevenness. That's a problem he could fix.

So it's just a matter of if you can put up with the "baggage" he's a good choice. Since everyone wants to win ultimately people do put up with it.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591574#Comment_122591574

You'd love to see me explain how Cody failed? No, you wouldn't, it'd drive you around the twist. We'll do that dance shortly though, I promise (talk about leaving teams in a state). It does deserve a thread of its own though. I'll just need more time to deal with the group-think 100 replies an hour.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122591831#Comment_122591831

Yes i'd love to know how you think the most successful manager in the GAA history somehow ''failed'' according to you.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596078#Comment_122596078

No need to write "failed" like that as if to imply that didn't really fail. Because he did. Royally. And we'll even examine the common of the Kilkenny player who said he failed. Yes, you'll love it.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610896#Comment_122610896

You keep making all these claims yet refuse to actually explain any of them.

So again explain how he ''failed''? If you're so sure of yourself it should be quite an east thing to do should it not?

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122612055#Comment_122612055

What "claims" (plural)?

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122612291#Comment_122612291

Are you actually fo real? You claim Brian Cody ''failed'' explain why? You've also claimed that every manager ''failed'' again explain why? If you're so sure it should be very easy for you to explain your claims?

dastardly00

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614135#Comment_122614135

That poster has a long documented history on Boards of an inexplicable dislike for all things Kilkenny GAA. It's best to just ignore them.

Sunny Disposition

Brian Cody was a woeful failure, everyone knows that. He’s no Davy:)

Back to the topic, Davy might be at the right level with Antrim and might be successful there.

As an aside, did anyone ask Davy why he agreed to manage Antrim after so much bellyaching about the distance to Waterford/Wexford? He might get a shock the first time he drives to Belfast.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614169#Comment_122614169

For the record, I never said that Brian Cody was a woeful failure. What I said was that nearly all managerial careers end in failure including his one. Quite a difference. Probably never a great sign when you end a sentence in an emoji. But you have shown the difficulty with someone jumping into a conversation mid way ans losing all context.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614135#Comment_122614135

Some managers (Dónal O'Grady, Liam Sheedy first time for example) are cute enough to get out before failing (which is inevitable). It's all about timing. But generally managers get greedy, complacent, hang on in mortal fear that someone else will get one last tune from the team when they're gone, while the teams on which they base their reputations decline and they are shown up as people who relied on their team more than their team ever relied on them (Cody the absolute classic example).

We'll get into the specifics of Cody and the extraordinary decline of Kilkenny under his watch in a few weeks when I have time to write it up game by game, opposition by opposition. The headline stuff on Cody is easy but the hilarity will be in the detail. Thanks for motivating me. This had the potential to be a mundane enough thread if you weren't determined to keep it going.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122518157#Comment_122518157

There would be very little if any enthusiasm in Clare for his return. If anyone says otherwise don’t take them seriously. There would be a club and supporter revolt if Lohan were to quit and Davy be appointed. Anyone who says it is likely in the future is spoofing. There is zero evidence to support it.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614621#Comment_122614621

Difficult enough tbf to find evidence to support any future appointments ever. There was zero evidence six months ago that Fitzgerald would be with Antrim or that Donoghue, the then Dublin manager, would be manager of Galway. Evidence is an inappropriately high bar. If you're assuming only things with an immediate evidential basis can happen in the future you will have limited vision. The Clare team is a relatively old one if you look at key players, Lohan is a manager on the go a fair while who lost nearly every clutch game he oversaw until this year's All Ireland series. Clare might be at the end of the road. You just could never rule out much in Clare in the future. And revolt is a fairly strong word too in a situation where club delegates to the County Board ratify any appointments. Doesn't make sense why they would revolt against their own decision?

hurlaway

I'm sure you will supply a list of your own achievements either side of the white line before you present us with your critique of B Cody,I'm sure it will be a very extensive list

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122615419#Comment_122615419

what I mean by a club revolt is that if the executive recommended Fitzgerald the delegates would not back it. But the executive wouldn’t recommend him anyway.

There is absolutely zero chance of him being the next Clare manager. None.

Now if he were to do something like win the All Ireland with Antrim the perception within the county might change. Might. But even if he did win the All Ireland he won’t be the immediate successor to Lohan. That definitely won’t happen.

Charlo30

Personally I think Fitzgerald will get a tune out of Antrim. As to what level of improvement that leads to remains to be seen. But I suspect they'll be a better outfit next year. Of course there is a danger that the wheels could come off. But considering where Antrim are the moment, its a risk worth taking.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617516#Comment_122617516

When all the bravado from various contributions here is stripped away that's essentially the point I was making. Maybe it won't happen this time but he does have a history of stabilising and improving teams. Well worth a punt for Antrim.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616064#Comment_122616064

Of course. Everyone here who offers an opinion does the same thing. Why should I be the exception?

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617246#Comment_122617246

Winning an All Ireland is obviously a preposterous standard to apply. Being competitive across all games and not getting hidings is the target for Fitzgerald. Getting out of Leinster would be the absolute high-water mark.

Glenomra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617516#Comment_122617516

As a Clareman speaking I think davy could make real progress with the Antrim team. They are an ideal match for him imo. Galway, Dublin, Tipperary etc are too 'proud' to have to listen to Davy and there would be significant internal opposition to his appointment. Antrim are at the periphery of the hurling world; their players are committed and talented and probably feel somewhat looked down upon by the hurling elites. Justifiably so!! An ideal recipe for Davy's fanaticism and commitment and makes the Leinster championship far more interesting imo.

Charlo30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617800#Comment_122617800

Would agree with most of that. But not with Dublin being too "proud" to listen to Fitzgerald. I think it was more a case of the timing not being right. The thinking of the DCB was that they wanted an internal manager this time around. I wouldn't rule out Fitzgerald managing Dublin at some future point.

Sunny Disposition

it’s a good appointment for both sides. Davy has probably run out of road when it comes to All Ireland contenders. Antrim are a level below but have some potential to improve and Fitzgerald generally gives a bounce, he is organised and has ideas on how his teams should play. He also brings star factor which can help commitment levels in weaker counties.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122618073#Comment_122618073

could you expand the ‘bounce’ that he gave waterford during the last two years.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614425#Comment_122614425

So you're going to show us how Cody failed by his record of games? Yet when the same was done with Davys record you ignored and dismissed that.

Because if you think he failed by your odd logic then Davy is a in fact a huge failure.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614169#Comment_122614169

Because of his ''love'' of the game of course.

Also nothing to do with the fact anyone in the top tier now know not to go anywhere near him now.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122615419#Comment_122615419

Do you really believe this BS you're talking? You're now dismissing Brian Lohan who's been in the job the same amount of time as Davy and has a better record. Although i'm sure you'll dismiss that as well.