The hospitality poor mouth

klose

Shrinkflation is probably my biggest grief with the hospitality sector, skimpy as anything with veg/spuds & chips. If I get severed frozen chips in a mug or tiny cone shaped basket again I’ll go mad.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122579506#Comment_122579506

it’s also not mine yours haven’t gone up.

Nobody said it was.

Either way, I will be the judge of what comes out of my pocket and what it's for and if there's any value in what I'm being asked to pay for.

And no amount of excuses of gaslighting will change that.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122579300#Comment_122579300

Stop assuming that people think this.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122579656#Comment_122579656

I’m just asking you to explain what exactly you mean by value and what it represents to you?

I’ve outlined for myself when I’d be willing to pay €20 for a burger and when I wouldn’t but you have not. In fact any inquiry into what you consider good value and reasonable cost is met with refusal to answer or complete diversions.

I suspect therefore you haven’t an answer.

batman75

I meet a friend of mine for dinner once a month. For a main plus a soft drink each your looking at 50 euro minimum. In Greece you'd pay at most 40 for what we get. I would say a lot of the difference is to do with the cost base. We have the second highest minimum wage in the EU so that is your starting point as to why. Rates, utility costs, rent etc. It's not rocket science as to why we're becoming such an expensive country to live in.

As the minimum wage continues to rise, sick pay and pension contributions kick in it's only going to get more expensive. The Government needs to get it's finger out and figure out ways to make it cheaper for people to live here.

scottser

This thread is simply validation that everything was better in my day.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122580189#Comment_122580189

That's the crux of it. Min wage increased by 30% since 2019. Ireland is an expensive place to live, so wages make up an ever larger proportion of everything we purchase.

Not just those on min-wage, but plenty of wages are benchmarked against min-wage, so they increase also.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122580756#Comment_122580756

Even nostalgia was better.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122580189#Comment_122580189

Our labour costs are eighth in the EU, yet our consumer prices are joint highest.

Wages are high, yes, but other costs are the main problem:

(1) commercial rents are way too high

(2) energy costs are still too high

(3) insurance costs for firms

(4) lack of competition in many sectors

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583416#Comment_122583416

not to mention on top of commercial rents you then have to also pay the council rates based on the cost of your rent or annual turnover (it’s one or the other I can’t remember which one and perhaps it’s neither!)

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122585290#Comment_122585290

Commercial rates = ARV * rateable valuation.

ARV = tax rate decided annually by each local council.

The NEV is based on the rental value of your property, the Net Effective Valuation (NEV).

Potential-Monke

You can't compare cooking at home to restaurant cooking. For one, when you cook at-home, you're cooking for 1-4 on average. Restaurants cook for many, many more. Saying that a burger is worth €20 due to all the additional costs is bs imo, because they're selling (or intend to sell) multiples of them an hour.

I get rent has gone up. I get we have crazy prices for rent in general. And all the others rares and charges are massive. But bottom line is, regardless of the costs restaurant's have, a burger is just not worth €20. Some people may think a burger is, but I find people who think €20 for a burger is acceptable are people with money to spare.

Same with most food, to your average Joe, who make up the bulk of restaurant goers, the increased price coupled with the decreased size and lower quality makes it no longer worth it. I used to be happy to pay €15 for McDonalds as you'd get a large meal, a side and a dessert for that. Now the large meal is nearly €15 by itself, no worth it.

And if restaurants can't keep the prices down for consumers to be able to continually afford it, then they will close. Just like upholsterers had to get new careers when throwaway furniture became the norm.

Maybe eating out will revert to the rich and famous only, like it was in yonder times. Grand says I. I'll miss the variety, but I can't justify these prices anymore. The cost is a major factor in my enjoyment of a meal. So even if I consider the food to be amazing, it's taken down a few notches due to the cost.

The only meals I'm not too bothered spending more on is takeaway Chinese et al, as I usually get 2 meals out of it, making it about a tenner a meal, which is grand.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577580#Comment_122577580

Very simplistic, I don't think that's it at all, except maybe for a few. Most are looking at a main course that used to cost €15 and now it's €20 or more, and thinking that it's a hell of a long time if ever since their wages increased by that percentage.

Lots of people have faced very significant hikes in their mortgage or rent in the last couple of years too, for many it's not just "is it worth it" but "can I even afford it anymore".

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122579206#Comment_122579206

I've come to the conclusion that a fair number of people in business in this country, especially those who inherited one, are just plain thick. It's amazing they survive as long as they do, but you can only trade on past reputation for so long.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122562260#Comment_122562260

petty, misogynistic, Trump-like bs

You try running a food joint in this environment and then tell me you wont make mistakes

Calahonda52

So getting all het up about the VAT reduction not being passed on.

What about super profits by builder from the FTB grants and other supports

record profits

https://www.cairnhomes.com/

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122579258#Comment_122579258

How are the businesses you work with dealing with warehoused tax? Understandable if you'd rather not say, but I suspect the "free money" that turned out to not be "free money" is the reason for many of these closures.

Gas and electricity are at or approaching pre-crisis levels.

Insurance - the whole compo culture and legal industry racket is a curse on this country, but successive governments only pay lip service to tackling it.

Rent - If the government is seriously going to intervene in private market rents then surely it's the residential sector they should be looking at above all.

Rates - Fact is that ever since the 1970s householders haven't paid their share and business rates skyrocketed as a result. Again this is a political tradeoff that will not be made.

Given what happened when the VAT was reduced before, it's hard to see any reductions in the above costs being passed on to the consumer so it's very hard to justify a VAT cut or a taxpayer subsidy (as opposed to e.g. slashing legal costs / compo awards with legislative change)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122580189#Comment_122580189

Do hospitality staff not deserve to have sick pay and some sort of occupational pension?

Nobody could afford to live in Ireland on Greek wages

veryangryman

Hospitality staff ain't given pensions or benefits in any country I know. If anything they need to be getting less. Their pay has gone way up on what it was even 10 years back.

Sorry dude. If anyone can do your job it shouldn't be paid well. If anything it should be automated and were not far off that day

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604921#Comment_122604921

From 2025 onwards, many workers here will be enrolled in Auto-Enrolment pensions, so pension coverage will increase.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604783#Comment_122604783

Catch yourself on. Someone making a song and dance about a particular issue, and can't get the absolute fundamental basics correct on that issue. Embarrassing.

And I couldn't care less what gender the proprietor is, so calling me misogynistic is ridiculous. If a male restaurant owner had made mention of 12.5% VAT I'd have made the exact same comment.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604921#Comment_122604921

the problem is when anyone becomes anyone on the planet lol, should someone trying to fund their college have to compete with someone from the third world who is either working illegally and prepared to live 15 to a kip , let jobs and wages fluctuate with the market

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604921#Comment_122604921

There's the thing, not just anyone can do the job. In fact, I'd posit most people would be incapable, not able to keep up with rush times, not able to be fake all the time even with the entitled customers who think they're better than you... no, not just anyone can do this job good. Same with any profession really. I've seen and experienced plenty of dodgy tradesmen over the years. Same with doctors, dentists, shop workers, and on and on.

batman75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604852#Comment_122604852

You have to ask yourself why that is so. Referring to your last line. All these things you believe people deserve have to be paid for. Are you willing to pay another 20-25% extra for your meal?

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122606593#Comment_122606593

"deserving " or "ought" is a losing proposition , I briefly remember California introducing a ~20ish dollar min wage (i could have the facts wrong) with the obvious implication that a bunch of fast food places closed down. these games of cat and mouse seems to be a game of death by regulation rather than letting the market find some natural balance, maybe we can have fun watching the rise of robots in this area lol

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607865#Comment_122607865

The claims that that caused closures haven't stood up to scrutiny though - the chains closing branches in California have been closing them everywhere else too; because they're failing in general.

randd1

Screw the hospitality sector. Fleece people, and people give up on you.

Pubs, restaurants, hotels. There's always an excuse, but most of the time why they're prices are so high is just pure greed on their part.

Eventually people will respond with their feet. And at that point, they should be asked "why didn't save when you were fleecing people?" instead of been given tax breaks or any type of investment.

You want the public to use your establishment, then be fair to the public and give them decent fare, and don't be a greedy ba5tard.

breezy1985

I have had to let go or not hire so so many people over the years that I am 100% sure that not everyone can be a waiter or bar person.

Some people are incomprehensibly bad at it. And these are not idiots either because plenty had experience or qualifications in other fields or went on to do so.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561885#Comment_122561885

The thing that I always hark back to around this was shortly after Covid there was some concert where the hotels were cancelling existing bookings and jacking up the prices to €600 or €700 a night to fleece the concert goers. This was shortly after the hospitality industry had the hand out to the government to keep them in business. Rep for the industry was challenged on the show and she just replied “supply and demand”. Well that works both ways unfortunately.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607884#Comment_122607884

there are always loads of pressures in different directions but fixing one input centrally will have a knock on effect especially in an "optional" sector with "optional" staff