The hospitality poor mouth

castletownman

Using my own town as an example.

My most regular 'local' occasionally put pints of Heineken,Coors etc. down to a €5 on a Saturday, word gets around via whatsapp, sparks a good bit of spur of the moment drinking. Younger crowd on a busy night, who don't really do till closing time drinking any more really.

The preceived 'posh' pub (long-established, rugby spot, packed on a Friday evening with suited-up 'professionals' after work) actually has the cheapest pint in town.

A newly refurbished spot caters for over 23s, completely changed its look to the extent that all its old-timers went elsewhere.

One late-bar/nightclub that seems to be going through a revival as of late.

I always find it mad how I hear of the closure of pubs over the last 20 years, yet not one has shut its doors in that time in my town, even with restaurants coming and going during that period.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636693#Comment_122636693

They did try again. It's being attacked by the anti drink lobby groups who think all us drinkers are alcoholics and also attacked by the curtain twitchers and Maude Flanders types why think we will all be out till 6am in every pub every night.

Basically lots of people it won't effect were being very noisy about it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/03/08/licensing-laws-unlikely-to-be-reformed-by-this-summer-says-leo-varadkar/

downtheroad

Greetings from Spain, where in a resort that is full of Irish, and they have a captive market as the nearest places to eat/drink are over a kilometre away, they only charge €1.50 for a coffee.

Food prices at the restaurants are extremely reasonable. Dinner for 2 adults and 2 kids , with a bottle of wine, is around €50-60.

I checked the Spanish VAT rate for restaurants/hospitality- 10%

I checked the Spanish minimum wage- €8.28

Both figures are lower than the Irish equivalent, but not enough the have a price that is well over 50% of the price charged in Ireland. And this resort could easily charge €2.50 a coffee, but don't.

For comparison a coffee in Center Parcs in Longford is between €4-€5.

Rip off Ireland,nothing else.

beachhead

Are you in all exes included resort? You are excluding the Irish bars and Irish "gastropubs" from your survey in Spain.Another thing I noticed in Spain lately is that restaurants change hands, nothing done to property but prices go up 20-30% and fixed menus disappear.Some of them have a captive tourist market.The solution for me is to walk or taxi 1.5 km to where the locals eat out

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122637205#Comment_122637205

It's not all inclusive.

No interest in visiting an Irish bar here.

I'm specifically referencing what I perceive to be good value in a resort that COULD charge exorbitant prices for food and drink, similar to how Center Parcs does in Longford, but they don't because this isn't the rip off republic.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636693#Comment_122636693

Govt did have it on the agenda last year. But much like the late night opening, anything related to improving night life seems to have stalled.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636530#Comment_122636530

Indeed.
I’ll just leave this here…….

https://www.statista.com/statistics/398449/operating-profit-of-diageo-worldwide/#:~:text=Diageo's%20global%20operating%20profit%20amounted,operating%20profit%20for%20the%20firm.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636530#Comment_122636530

Yes.

Before MUP, the retail price of beer in off-licences had been falling in real terms.

It was possible to get 33cl bottles for as little as 75c.

Cans and bottles were nearly cheaper in nominal terms than when I was bushing in college in the year 1995.

So clearly Diageo used its dominance to pass on increases to the on-trade, but couldn't do the same in the off-trade.

You could get 24 cans of Guinness at Xmas for as low as 24 euro.

I often wondered why the pubs didn't fight this?

Or at least buy the 33cl bottles from a retailer, instead of through the traditional wholesalers.

Geuze

This is what is possible:

https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/news/autumn-deals/

In contrast, the Irish pub chains pocket the bulk buying discount as their own profits.

Tony EH

^

Wetherspoons does great deals. But the problem with Wetherspoons is that the pubs those deals are in are often terrible places to drink in. I don't know why, but any spoons I've been in has always been an uncomfortable kip that's completely lacking that kind of "pub" atmosphere.

Plus no Guinness. Probably because Diageo are pricks.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639257#Comment_122639257

Plus no Guinness. Probably because Diageo are pricks.

Or maybe because they can't buy it dirt cheap from Diago and flogg it dirt cheap.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122638471#Comment_122638471

So why are Weatherspoons in Ireland closing.

It's because people are not interested in drinking pints they have never heard of in places that don't look or feel like traditional Irish pubs, regardless of how cheap those pints are.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639257#Comment_122639257

They usually need to be massive venues because they need volume for the model to work. Also no music or TVs.

So the idea that 700 Irish pubs can just come together and be Witherspoons has to come with the massive asterisk that it needs to be a very specific set of Irish pubs that are big, TV free, busy and full of customers who dont care what they drink.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639257#Comment_122639257

Yes, they don't have the character of many Irish pubs, I accept that.

I am willing to see past that, as they are selling me cask ale for 2.60.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639257#Comment_122639257

Interestingly, JD Wetherspoon sell Guinness in the UK, but not in RoI.

I presume this is because the UK is a more competitive market, and they have less dominance / power.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639346#Comment_122639346

Fair points.

I am not like most Irish people. I will drink cask ale for 2.60 per pint.

The three pubs outside Dublin are closing, yes.

AFAIK, the pubs in Dublin are busy?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639442#Comment_122639442

Most people in the UK are not willing to see past it. The cities are full of pubs selling beer at £5/6 with a Witherspoons close by.

Spoons are a niche market over there same as here because for the average person price isn't the primary factor.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639332#Comment_122639332

That's what I mean by Diageo are pricks.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639453#Comment_122639453

I believe so. The Camden St one seems popular, but then so is every other pub around there and they are all much more expensive.

Wouldn't even occur to myself or friends to go to Wetherspoons, given all the better places around there.

tayto lover

I was only once in a Wetherspoons and that was in Birmingham. I can't remember the price of a pint and only had 2 anyway as I didn't like the place or the atmosphere.

I wouldn't drink in an expensive Dublin pub either because of the rip-off prices and the way the drink is nearly thrown at you when it's busy.

I prefer to drink in a quiet country pub with good company and if the drink is only 5 euro a pint then all the better.

Geuze

Yes, lots of customers are not price sensitive, which allows both the brewers and pubs to prosper.

I admire the democractic nature of Ryanair and Spoons, driving down costs and prices, to benefit the working person.

I also go to pubs like the Lark Inn or the Auld Triangle, but I avoid these types of pubs:

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639495#Comment_122639495

Yes, I often find it odd that people complain about high prices, and when presented with the opportunity to avoid the high prices, they don't take it.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639694#Comment_122639694

Me too Geuze.

Although I think those lads in Temple Bar will get by without us :)

Over half a million euro per month pure profit....that's some going.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639699#Comment_122639699

A lot of that comes from people believing that cheaper means less quality, even when it's the exact same product they're buying.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639739#Comment_122639739

And often served in it's best condition and not thrown at you.

tom1ie

Why can’t witherspoons import cheap, quality, UK beer and ale and sell it in Irish pubs for a cheaper price?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639699#Comment_122639699

I agree. I go to the high price places and accept that. I don't burn the bar persons ear off about the price for the duration of my pint. I do miss the odd £2 pint in my local Spoons but it would never replace my go to pubs.

dominatinMC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122637002#Comment_122637002

My own town, and experience, is eerily similar (are we from the same place!). I joke, there are 5 pubs in my town but no late bar. Nevertheless, they are are doing a strong trade.

For all the talk about pubs, I've seen far more restaurants close in towns around me in the last 10 years. I have no idea what the national figures are on this, but they don't get the same attention as pubs.

I realise as a nation we are drinking less so inevitably there were going to be closures. A lot of other circumstances too, such as owners dying with no one to carry on the business, rural depopulation, etc. But pubs, in general, from what I see (purely anecdotal) are very busy. Maybe we've reached some sort of equilibrium where the amount of pubs left now are sufficient to cater to demand.

Also, I've seen it trotted out here, and elsewhere quite a bit, about young people not frequenting pubs. Do the people that state this actually go out and socialise I wonder? Cause if so, they would see this is far from the case. I work in a university and drinking culture amongst the students is as strong as ever. Not that that's necessarily something to celebrate, but just my two cents on the "young people don't drink" narrative.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639760#Comment_122639760

I seek out Wetherspoons when in the UK because as well as the crazy cheap top notch choice of drinks I genuinely find the buildings they are located in very interesting. It's not often I go for a few drinks during the day but will enjoy it on holiday and knowing I can have a decent enough quality bit of a munch in the same building if the mood takes me is a big plus. Granted it's not going to be haute cuisine but I know that before I order and the value for money is at this stage a novelty factor.

The ones I've visited more than a few times have always been immaculately clean with very friendly staff and there's always a good mix of customers, it's not all tattooed dole merchants playing the slot machines but you'll meet them in nearly every UK pub anyway.

I went to the one in Cork city a couple of times but found the atmosphere in there not so relaxing, the last time I called in it looked like a welcome home from jail party was in full swing so I headed off without even ordering a pint.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640017#Comment_122640017

I've only been in the one in Birmingham. What I didn't like was the high table and high stools as i'm getting a bit too old for climbing. They wouldn't be for me if that was a typical one but i don't know if they are all the same.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639791#Comment_122639791

They do.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640122#Comment_122640122

Right- I didn’t know that!!
So what price would you pay for a witherspoons stout there?
Is it decent?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122562340#Comment_122562340

I agree with you, business owners expect a premium for just owning a business. That isn't the way the rest of the world works.

Busman Paddy Lasty

That was their business model day 1. Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, they found out that warm flat ale doesn't go down as well as chilled Heino or other familiar brands.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640029#Comment_122640029

Deffo not all the same, only one I can remember where I had to sit at a high table was in Chester near the old city walls but that was before a home football game and it was busy with fans having a few scoops. The ones that I've been to in Devon, Liverpool and Blackpool have been very comfy. The Trawl Boat in Lytham St. Annes is my personal favourite, I always set aside at least one full day to escape to there with the wife for a few lazy hours just chilling and people watching and the people we stay with have started to frequent it more often themselves since we introduced them to it.

It's especially nice to see the different types of retired folks that come in on their own, usually all dressed up for a lunch on their own and they can have endless refills of coffee or tea for free once they pay for one. I like the whole ethos of the business model they have, it's a bit like Ryanair

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640221#Comment_122640221

Current prices on app, Cork pub:

Worthington's creamflow = 2.05,

Greene King abbot ale = 2.05

Probably the cheapest pints in Ireland?

Other real cask ales = 2.05 / 2.25 / 2.70

Strongbow cider = 2.95

Beamish = 3.35

Macro lagers: Fosters 2.95, Stella 3.35, Carlsberg, Coors 3.95

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640442#Comment_122640442

If there was a witherspoons near me and if I was heading out I think I’d be inclined to head there.
Great prices.

Busman Paddy Lasty

The one in Dun Laoighre is nice. I would frequent only it's too far away from me.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639670#Comment_122639670

Was at a work leaving thing a few weeks back and the guy leaving wanted to go to the Bleeding Horse, but I'd much rather we'd have gone to Spoons.

Not just a lot cheaper, but a much wider range of beers, great spirits offers too. Plus they don't have some w@nker's bad acoustic guitar playing blasting out of speakers all over the place. If that's what's called "atmosphere", then give me "soulless" any time.

99% of the time in a pub you spend your time talking to the people you went in with, so this "atmosphere" bollocks is just that

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640246#Comment_122640246

On a trip to England, the group I was with dropped into a traditional local pub. Were all complaining that there was nothing familiar on tap, so they only drank the big brand bottled beer the pub had in the fridge. I really enjoyed trying the local ales they had on tap. Was surprised nobody else tried. In fact a number of people in my group thought it was strange that I was drinking ale and bitter.

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640654#Comment_122640654

Yeah I've seen the same on occasion. Live a little and try new stuff ffs.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640548#Comment_122640548

Horses for courses, no pun intended!

I would pick the Bleeding Horse every time over Wetherspoons, but each to their own.

Anseo down the road would be my top tip around there.

downtheroad

"Hospitality and publican groups have in recent years called for a 7.5 per cent reduction in excise duty to allow publican to increase margins"

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/cut-alcohol-duty-and-vat-in-budget-to-help-hospitality-firms-minister-says/

Would this not be seen as the government giving a direct subsidy/advantage to one industry? Every lobby group should then start asking for tax reductions to benefit their members.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641750#Comment_122641750

state subsides and protective measures is how capitalist economies work, without such, they simply couldnt function, theres evidence of this from all over the world, including and in particularly here in ireland

tommythecat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640869#Comment_122640869

Or just walk up the road a bit to O Connells at Portobello and have the finest Guinness in town.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641791#Comment_122641791

Some examples here in Ireland please?

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122639346#Comment_122639346

Wetherspoons are closing venues in the UK,17+ so far this year and more to come.Market conditions matter for Tim

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641839#Comment_122641839

tons of evidence here, we all know our state has been very strongly towards corporate policy here for decades, and the whole apple situation clearly shows, we still are, thats clear state protectionism, maintaining lower rates of tax for the sector, compared to other sectors such as sme's sectors.

the agricultural sector is also a common sector that experiences subsidisation, this is relatively common around the world, without which the sector simply wouldnt survive, and we simply wouldnt have access to the abundance of relatively cheap food either.

again, its the only way many sectors survive, the only way capitalism truly works, bailouts are another form of state protectionism, bailouts are relatively common in the corporate sectors, the world over

….but dont tell the free market fundamentalists, it might burst their bubble!

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641859#Comment_122641859

Corporation Tax is set at the same rate for all companies, be they hospitality industry or tech companies.

MNCs may be able to use accountants and lawyers to their advantage to pay lower effective tax rates.

Apple's sweetheart deal clearly just got rumpled, as has been all over the news recently.

Here we have one particular industry demanding that they be given favourable treatment for excise duty and VAT, compared to others, to enhance their margins. That is ridiculous and should be laughed out of it, not supported by the Enterprise minister. Thankfully it seems that the Finance minister has more sense and isn't going to relent here.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642274#Comment_122642274

Apple were demanding favourable treatment too and our FG reps even went to Europe to argue Apple's case. It was the EU who judged it liable to pay its back taxes.