Very interesting times ahead for Germany

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575854#Comment_122575854

"Here are there requirement ot join our club? Do you wish to join"

"Yes please"

"You know you must meet the requirements and there is a fine if you dont"

"Yes"

"You are failing to meet this requirement, there will be a fine"

"But we didn't vote for that requirement"

"No, you voted for all requirements"

"WAHWAHWAH"

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575854#Comment_122575854

Hungary is busy importing Russians

They signed up to common Schengen rules which this breaks

They could have opted out like Ireland did but they didn’t

So it’s a bit rich if you to be complaining about immigration into Hungary while opening the doors wide open to immigration from one of the largest third world sh1tholes which contains rapists and murderers who spent last three years rampaging across their neighbour and can now live in EU

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576886#Comment_122576886

Aren't they what nearly every left wing party was before they became so dominated by middle class ideologues.

tinytobe

What is interesting to note is that the AfD is driven mainly by anti-immigration sentiment but the former East of Germany had the fewest in immigration numbers. This is similar to those rioting in the UK or those voting for Brexit in areas where there is little immigration anyway.

Germany is a complex country with a complicated society. In many ways it's the sick man of Europe these days. The economy is very weak, bureaucracy is complicated and nearly everywhere and so are high taxes, many strategic issues are solved by some sort of ideology. Energy politics is handled the wrong way resulting in high cost of energy, driving industry out of the country and immigration is attracting the wrong kind of people.

Recently there were many cases of shootings and stabbings among immigrants or individuals with some form of migration background. They neither learn the language nor do they accept the country's laws. There are also many Arab crime families operating in the Berlin area. The problem in Germany is also that they offer rather generous social welfare, even for those who haven't paid into the system.

So naturally this causes issues.

I don't think the AfD would stand any decent chances in the federal elections. Thuringia is only a small province of Germany.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576931#Comment_122576931

Maybe people thought the Germans and French they are sensible nations , they know how to run stable economies lol

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576914#Comment_122576914

Germany was a miserable hellhole post WW1. He didn't need to give them better lives, a sliver of their pride back was enough motivation. And was it bad for them? For Germany? Their later years, their children, grand children were given a better chance after WW1 and Germany advanced to be the head of Europe.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576977#Comment_122576977

But it was a garden of roses during ww2? Yes, having every major city flattened was a fantastic thing for Germany. Not to mention the guilt and shame of trying to exterminate every Jewish, gay and disabled person. A great legacy to leave your kids and grand children. I'm sure everyday they are so grateful and thankful to them.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576977#Comment_122576977

Oh dear...

thatsdaft

So let me summarise last few pages

?

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576996#Comment_122576996

The point of it is to understand history and not make the same mistakes. Alienating a nation saddling it with reparations after WW1 was a bad idea. We've learned that, and understood that integration and common values were the way to go after WW2. Building a much more peaceful and good society.

And indeed we should have learned that when people have nothing going for them, they become radicalized, and can act out, whether it's for their good or not is irrelevant they do it. Seeing WW2 as "Hitler" is does not sit right with me, it's a long build up of hardship and tension that resulted in war. We may again experience economic depression, hyperinflation, and we will see the same patterns and trends.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576847#Comment_122576847

Kinda, the thing is yes there are lots of available cheap houses but they are all in places that almost no one wants to live, like that one there is incredibly remote.

In the big cities it used to be cheap but it's getting expensive and fast, Berlin in particular has exploded in the last few years.

From personal experience my (German) girlfriend was offered a decent house by a friend of hers for just 100k.. it belonged to his parents who had died and he couldn't live and then also work there so he just wanted to get some money for it.. and my gf looked into it but we also couldn't work if we lived there either so as tempting as the security of having a house and not having to pay high rents in the city was, we had to say no. It's not even worth it as an investment as these areas are emptying out.

And this is an issue AFD will have to face, their rhetoric is not going to get young people to stay in these villages and towns, anyone who doesn't fit in or wants an education or job will move away, there'll be no outsiders (foreign or German) willing to move to these places, nor invest, meaning less jobs which will eventually force even more young people to move out, regardless of whether they want to.

I've not looked into but I can well believe the AFD's main backers are rich elites like the FPÖ in Austria or UKIP in Britain, but even if not their most likely coalition partners are going to be the conservatives, who will not be willing to increase welfare or invest money in unproductive rural east german villages... Nor will the conservatives want to fully stop immigration as they need cheap labour to keep their profits up, not that there's huge amounts of immigration into rural east Germany anyway.

These areas voting for the AFD is simply suicide.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576914#Comment_122576914

Hitler and the NSDAP never had more than 30-40% of the vote, until they removed elections. My family is Prussian, we were extricated from Ost Prussia to Essen during operation Keelhawl and then my grandmother was returned to her adoptive family in Ireland, after also spending the war here for safety reasons. Her brothers were forced into the hitler youth during the war as were all young people.

The NSDAP was a natural route out of the weimar republic for the germans who were both appalled with the treaty of versailles (which even at the time of signing was labelled in some places as a guarantee of war in 20 years), as well as suffering with ridiculous inflation due to the treaty of versailles and the cost of war reparations associated with it. WW1 is a very interesting textbook case on how not to manage a local conflict in your ally's land, how not to resign when you haven't been defeated, and how not to manage a post war treaty. At the time, the ideals of absolute monarchy were not that far removed, and both Fascism and Communism/Socialism were new ideals and undefined compared to how we know them now.

All that being said, it created a breeding ground for a party and leader to emerge that had a charisma and a believable way out of the mess that is 1920's germany. And if you look at 1933-1939 and exclude the ridiculous and inexcusable crimes perpetrated against minorities, they somewhat did that for Germany. Albeit it was geared towards wartime autarky as opposed to economic progress for economic progress. The same abuses against Jews, Roma, LGBT etc in Germany, were being perpetrated against germans in Czechoslovakia, so you could understand the need for the sudetenland. Other lands that were taken under the treaty of versailles you could understand. No one (most) that voted for the NSDAP did so with knowledge of what would happen in the 40's.

Let's get one thing straight though… Hitler and the nazis were scum, little ****, disgraces to Germany and a shitstain on the honorable history of the Prussians & Germans.. Bismarck, Wilhelm, Frederick, these were great Prussian German military leaders. Hitler was a despot. I hate that Hitler has ruined the public perception of centuries of prussian pride, and colored the great eagle and cross with the foooking nazi nonsense. And he wasn't even capital G German, he was an austrian that spoke german. It has taken this long for germans to even contemplate being proud in their nation again.

National pride, right wing politics, pride in your flag, your city, your identity and culture does not equate to being a Nazi just because you are German. You should have pride in your country. When it's good you should be proud and when it's not going well you should vote for change.

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577068#Comment_122577068

There’s a difference between lack of any housing (Ireland) and lack of desirable housing (Germany) by people with notions

There are plenty of remote places in Ireland and you still won’t find a house for this price

BTW in last 30 years Irish population went up 35%
While German only went up 3.5%

My point stands, the poster projected Irish issues onto a country that’s completely different kettle of fish

Mr. teddywinkles

Deleted

riffmongous

How can you blame Versailles, and then praise Bismarck? One of the reason Versailles was so harsh was French payback for Bismarck and "Germany's" seizure of Alsace-Lorraine

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577124#Comment_122577124

Being able to get a decent job or not fitting in with the village scene isn't having "notions", it's a bit odd that you'd think so.

Berlin, Dresden, Leipzig, all up by 55-80% since 2017

It's a real pity that the powers-that-be gave up on the idea of large scale remote working so quickly after COVID.

The population of Klingenthal went down by about 20% since 1999 btw. There must be a lot of people with notions there.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingenthal

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575798#Comment_122575798

No we don't. Hell no. AfD are total scumbags.

All we need is Fianna Gael to be more pragmatic in their immigration decision making. Cut out the immigration chancers and welfare tourists at all costs and send them back to their port of origin immediately. Problem solved.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576973#Comment_122576973

Yes, Germany and France and not Hungary are the countries descending into oblivion and tin pot dictatorship

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577237#Comment_122577237

So plenty of housing to go all around then in that town

The poster made out that housing is an issue in these rural locations that are voting for AfD yet it’s clearly not

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577262#Comment_122577262

Ah I get you now, I thought you meant east germany as a region, my mistake.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577255#Comment_122577255

is that a question or sarcasm? if you straight-line France and Germany oblivion is the final destination what with Germany's poor energy decisions and the lack of any kind of positive vision for the future of either of them, a gentile decline is the best case on offer, debt, demographics and overall stagnation cant be positive.

tom1ie

So are the EU not just better off trying to stop immigration by trying to sort out why people are leaving the countries for the EU?

What people are non EU and are trying to get into the EU?
Why are they trying to get into the EU?
How can we stop these people leaving their own countries to come to the EU?

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122576555#Comment_122576555

they went to war with....the world ..…twice!! And it was close!

N McD

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577300#Comment_122577300

They are trying but the far left and far right are the ones protesting the loudest against common European migration approaches, kind of reminds me how Trump deliberately scuppered attempts to resolve the border issue in US as they don’t want the issue fixed

And then there is Hungary mentioned earlier in thread who is deliberately throwing door open to migrants from/via Russia to deliberately flood the EU

The far left and far right need immigration to be an issue, notice how in countries where far right came to power like Italy the problem obviously remains unsolved

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577325#Comment_122577325

are the "common approaches" any good? if you dont have enforced borders and only migration via legal means (points based etc, with visa) chaos is certain.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577295#Comment_122577295

Hungary is in stagnation and an inexorable decline. At least France and Germany have migrant workers to replace the missing kids as taxpayers to support the older generations. Hungary have neither

thatsdaft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577347#Comment_122577347

Its hard to tell as there is deliberate attempts by those screaming loudest against migration to block attempts at actually solving the problem both in Europe and US

I suspect because they realise that if the problem is solved then the thin wedge that these numpties are using to drive even dafter and darker policies will disappear

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577349#Comment_122577349

who cares about Hungary? its a small country , the French and Germans on the other hand are circling the drain and can only lead to a breakup of the EU in time. Maybe AI saves the day but the French at least with be very resistant to that

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577374#Comment_122577374

By what metric are they "circling the drain"?

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577364#Comment_122577364

im not sure exactly what that means, the majority would agree on what "sensible" looks like ie legal good illegal send back or physically stop in the first place, if you cant turn around a dinghy mid channel you are not doing border security right its that simple