narcissist mum and codependant father

daibhi574

I'm in a dilemma, I try to describe it. My mum is a heavy narcissist and she's doing her things with me now. my father is her mouthpiece and following her sick ideas. They never were really close in my life, we had more than one fall outs of some years. Normally I would do it again, the no contact thing, but it's not really an option for me anymore as they are old and could go very soon.

Just two years ago we reconciled after a three year episode of no real contact. It was the best time of my life with them. It was really nice, I trusted them, they were very interested in my life and I let them into my life. we had the same views political and society wise. At evenings we would sit together and had very good and deep discussions. All was good and I was so happy to have finally found a connection/trustfull foundation with them in the last time before they leave this world and I couldn't imagine this would be destroyed again.

But everything fell apart for me again. One weekend when I visited, all of a sudden, they got hostile, or better to say, my father. Completely out of the blue during some discussion on a subject. I was gobsmacked but knew instantly this is not about the discussion, it's something personal, he holds a deep grudge all of a sudden again or indeed not all of a sudden, it was always there. It ended when I asked him if he doesn't like me at all and he answered: yes.

I still can't comprehend how can a father say this to his daughter. And he didn't take it back. I left the next morning. Since then it didn't go back to normal, no sorry, I didn't mean it or anything like that. He was flat out denying he said it, gaslighting me I make this up.

During the following months it got clear they know some things about my life I never told them. I asked them about it, but they deny everything and start the gaslighting game again, and threatening if I make any more 'trouble', my mum will most likely have a heart attack. It can't get any more cruel I think.

I asked them three times to let me know what it is, who told them things about me or whether they themselves sought information somewhere. The crazy thing is that I can't explain it myself who should have told them.

It is a very horrible situation to be in for me. I' became like a person non grata to them I don't know what I've done. I could go on writing, but maybe it's enough for now for people to get the picture and I could explain more if people have questions.

I would be happy to hear peoples thoughts on this and how to handle this situation.

Xterminator

they are not going to change. you probably know this yes?

what benefit does the relationship bring you? cut them off. work on yourself.

daibhi574

yes, I know that, they won't change. but I can't cut them off, I tried, I feel worse then. It's not that easy, if it would I would've done that, as before and wouldn't feel the need to write here. it's complex I explained why, one reason they could die anytime.

I did work on myself and still do, but it's very difficult at the moment for different reasons, which also are not only my fault. For examle I tried for so long to find a good counsellor, but it seems impossible and I had a good one some time ago, it's not that I'm not able.

Shoog

Very similar to my parents.Had no contact for 10years whilst our children are young but when my Dad had a stroke I got back in contact and have visited a few times. Nice to see my brothers but always ends on conflict with my parents.

Nothing I can do will make their situation better so I have said to the wife I will see everyone at their funerals. End of story really.

You never have to put up with other peoples drama - you have no obligations to your parents other than the obligations you put on yourself. They will never change so why should you to accommodate their dysfunctions.

If you decide otherwise then take full responsibility for the consequences.

Hannibal_Smith

Interesting how you consider your mother to be a narcissist (which of course only a qualified person can diagnose, I'm just using your wording), but your dad is almost excused as being her mouthpiece yet he's the one who said he didn't like you. Why is he not held to the same standard as your mother?

If someone else said, I'm judging you on something someone told me about you but I'm not telling you what it is or who said it, how would you react? If it was me I'd tell you carry on, but know you only have one unsubstantiated side of whatever story is upsetting you and when you want to properly address it come back to me with the details.

Some people are good at being parents, some aren't. And from what you've posted yours sound extremely toxic. There's no rule that says you have to cut off contact, the decision is up to you. But if you're going to remain in contact you have to learn to detach from their behaviour and judgements. Of course a parent telling you they don't like you will hurt your feelings, but you have to learn to not let it. You have to put a wall between you and them. You're not going to get any benefit from letting it impact you. Some parents are just not up to the job. It's on them, not you.

I take it you no longer live at home if you avoided each other for 3 years. So yourenin control of when you see them, which is good.

daibhi574

it's also, I don't think they dislike me completely. At the end of the day maybe I shouldn't take everything too personal. That would be a way…but not really feeling it at the moment, it's just my mind telling me. As written, my mum is a real narcissist. It's a form of personality disorder. But then she can be very nice, she showed me the last 2 years. It's very confusing. Possibly part of the game.

She has this with other people too, if there's things she doesn't like about a person, she keeps on ranting about them, although she never sees them or just meet them once a month, the cleaning lady for example. It's like she's taking the flaws she sees in other people personally. Kind of crazy.

at the moment we actually have very little contact. they stopped calling me once a week like they used to. strange thing is my mum wanted me to visit them. but I couldn't bring myself to do as I'm so scared they will hurt me again with their subtle remarks.

are you an only child op?

Hannibal_Smith

I'm sure they don't dislike you at all. Maybe in the heat of the moment things were said. If you were all getting along well and someone said something to them maybe this other person is just out to cause trouble. But you can't control what's said to your parents. You can't control how they react to it or behave. All you can control is how you act and behave. You can't explain or defend something that's bothering them if they don't tell you. So let it roll off you like water off a duck's back. It is possible, it shouldn't need to be where parents are concerned, but sometimes it is necessary.

daibhi574

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597975#Comment_122597975

no, one more sibling. why? I'm not on good terms with them either if that's the background of your question.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598153#Comment_122598153

I was wondering if you had siblings and if the problems extended to them also.

daibhi574

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597984#Comment_122597984

yes, but that's the horrible bit and for me not comprehensible. they actually protect the person who wanted to obviously cause trouble, as you rightly said, instead of talking to me and telling me what happened and at elast ask me if things are true, what's going on or whatever. I would have told them my issues in live then. and besides, I actually have told them about very peculiar and strange things going on in my life. I just didn't told them everything because I didn't wanted to upset them too much because I know they are old and don't need that. Instead, they let me down on something somebody else said. Isn't that horrific? I gave them an ultimatum to tell me what caused their sudden anger towards me and they didn't react. Afterwards my father actually kind of mocked me. This is the behaviour of Zombies fmpov. And still, they are my parents. I know I can't change them, but to suggest to let it roll off me like water off a ducks back is easy to say behind the keyboard and when not emotionally involved, but this is about the parents. More possible with friends, but with parents it's different. They stay parents forever and nobody, not you either can tell me you could easily let this roll off your back if it would you being in my shoes…

daibhi574

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598156#Comment_122598156

no they would never dare doing what they are doing with me now because they depend on the other sibling. they will take care of them if they need it in the coming future. and therefore and for other reasons they are the 'golden child' now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598319#Comment_122598319

You don't state your age but if you are still young and have some independence then learning to let your parents go is a bit like a right of passage. If there is a sibling there to care for them and they are happy and contented with each other then it lessens the burden on you to be there in the same way. I understand that it can feel like mourning for a family you wish you had or wanting to be with people who recognise how you feel and maybe a counsellor can help you deal with those things. (I know its used here a lot but turn2me provide online support for free)

You might just benefit from a change of perspective. Hope everything works out.

Bogroll2003

Roles in these families change.

Golden child stays golden only until they stop delivering the narc what she wants, supply in the form of agreeableness, running errands to keep her happy, doing stuff to feed her need to control etc. Authentic people can’t do this, but codependent people who haven’t individuated can.

Staying silent and compliant is the way to support and validation from the narc matriarch.

Step out of line, intentionally or not, you’re out!

Listen, you know who she is. Grieve the loss (which isn’t real anyway) and leave them to it.

hawley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598319#Comment_122598319

It's very unusual for parents and their children to have all the exact same views on politics and social issues. I usually try to stay away from discussing these type of issues with family members, especially my father, who has very conservative views.

Hannibal_Smith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598245#Comment_122598245

It is easy to let it roll off you. And it's not said as someone behind a keyboard, its said as some one who has had their own difficulties and issues with a parent. Ive been in your shoes. Things that were said used to bother me, until I realised they were never going to change, their behaviour wasn't normal so I learned to let it not bother me. When things are being said I walk away. I'm not a child anymore and don't have to sit and listen to stuff that is only designed to hurt my feelings.

What are your options? You don't want to block them from your life. You know you can't change them. So like everything else you have you learn how you manage it so you don't absorb it.

daibhi574

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122598573#Comment_122598573

you're right about this.

grieve the loss. yes, that's what I'm doing. It's not easy as I don't have much, if any, support. And that's what human beings need in such circumstances, but even that is so hard to find these days, or maybe it was always like that.

Bogroll2003

I’m not sure.

Healing from trauma really only comes from within yourself.

You acknowledge the truth of who your parents are, don’t fudge it to balm your hurt. Radical acceptance of them, warts and all. You realise you can’t change who they are, nor should you want to. You find your authentic self. Who you are, what you think, what you want. Your life will open up to so much more than you realise when you be yourself. It doesn’t mean being mr nice guy, or ms. People pleaser. Just be you.

Individuate from your family of origin. You don’t need them, you are not a child. You are a grown adult.

Minimise contact to a level that enables you to heal, or cut contact if it becomes necessary. Read about grey rocking, basically being boring.

You are your own judge and jury, not the narc matriarch because you’ve individuated from their views, you don’t care.

it’ll take a few years probably but you’ll get there.

Try some talk therapy with a good psychotherapist if you’re struggling.

Deeec

OP based on the limited info you have given in this post there is nothing really to suggest your parents have a mental disorder. Your mother complains about people behind their backs ( the vast majority of the population do this )- that doesnt make her a narcissist. Can you expand and tell us more why you think your mum is a narcissist.

As regards your recent fallout over their unsupportiveness/annoyance over things that are happening in your life or difference of opinions. Often a parents bad reaction can be out of concern for their child. Parents dont like everything their child does and they may perceive or be worried that you are messing up your life. Absolutely your dad handled the situation badly but we all say things we dont mean when we are annoyed.

What Im trying to say is that while your parents do have issues there also may be issues with yourself reading situations wrong or you not understanding that your parents are concerned about you and your future.

Parents and adult children dont always see things the same way. It doesnt mean your parents are bad people or that your a bad person. I suppose you need stand back and look at the situation objectively.

I may be wrong but nothing you have posted suggests your parents are terrible people. Maybe you could give us more examples of situations that have happened over the years to back up your opinion of them.

SAMTALK

It took me a long time to realise that just because they are your parents do not mean that you automatically love each other, agree on things and get on well

I realised a few years ago that my mother and myself wont ever have a good relationship, we havent fallen out but we just dont get on well and she can be quite mean (with words) and thinks because she is my mother she can hurt my feelings and I wil take it, Out of duty I call to her but have accepted that i wont have the same relationship that my sister has with her .

OP maybe accept that ye are different personalities and put a bit of distance there, Call to them but dont stay long enough for things to be said or feelings to be hurt

YellowLead

I’m afraid you just have to accept who they are and that you can’t change that. You can’t change how they feel about you or your relationship with them. What you can change is how you deal with it - it sounds like keeping a distance is best here. Believe it or not, lots of people have **** relationships with parents and unfortunately wanting a good one doesn’t translate to it happening, as much as that sucks. You just have to give up on this one and prioritise yourself, and know that you aren’t a lesser human being because of it. Focus on other aspects of your life.