Ireland v Greece 10.09.2024 Match Thread - UEFA Nations League

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607370#Comment_122607370

Jesus Christ..... so my big take away is more posh people and you'd go to the LOI?? Rather have real fans than people like you who talk absolute waffle.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122603430#Comment_122603430

not correct. The ‘Big Two’ in Belfast are not “one for the nationlists and one for the unionists ( got to play that riverly off another)”, as you claim. They are both in very unionist areas but certainly have players from both communities.
the episode in Aviva the other day demonstrated the problems with an all island league. That was the anthem held dear by most teams in ni that was widely disrespected. So some work to do first.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605348#Comment_122605348

I dunno, starting to wonder is there something more going on at this stage. Brighton wouldn’t have released him unless he was fit (albeit lacking match sharpness). There’s been a marked change in him since his last goal (v Forest I think) and he has gone from being very involved in build-up play and very good on the ball to hardly touching the ball in games and he seems to be giving it away a lot cheaper. Hopefully it’s just a confidence thing and he’ll find his mojo again, but it’s concerning. I said on the PL thread on the first day of the season that he’d do well to get back in the Brighton side and the way things stand I can’t see him getting much more than 15 or 20 min cameos for the foreseeable….just hope it doesn’t turn out like another former Brighton striker.

NIMAN

I think Ferguson was bring hyped up beyond belief for a while, and then a dip in form, coupled with injuries, have hampered his career of late.

You have to remember he hadn't played a competitive game since March 31st before these 2 Ireland games. He is very rusty, and add being put into a team that is generally terrible, and you wondered expect him to shine.

He will regain match fitness hopefully and get back to playing and scoring in the EPL, bur I can understand the concerns. There was talk of the top EPL team buying him for big money a year back, but if he is hindered by reoccurring injuries it could really damage his career. He needs to be a regular starter for Brighton to begin with.

Let's hope he's not another young player showing signs of burn out at an early age, a la Ansu Fati and the like. He's been playing top level football since he was 15, and often when you are playing like that, you can pick up injuries.

AllGunsBlazing

Having to fight his way back into the Brighton team won't do him any harm. Quite the opposite - a character building exercise. If he's good enough then it stands to reason that he'll be fine.

If there was an underlying injury concern would Brighton have let him go? They seem happy for him to get minutes under his belt. In all honesty I think we should have brought on someone else and let his club do the job of bringing him up to speed.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607560#Comment_122607560

It was a proposal to shake up the leagues. dublin could have two "big" sides and play the north south dublin riverlry while belfast could also have two to do an east west riverly there. That would be 4 sides. Then another 6 scattered around Ireland. Atm Dublin has too many small clubs for it to ever really have a big side that could get into the champions league regularly.

Btw the booing at english game was amied at the english for the way thier fans carry on rather than the lyrics of an antem. Scotland or wales would not get booed if GSTK was played at the Aviva. People up north are not English so they dont need to worry about that. Anyway anthems are not played before league matchs anyway.

NIMAN

Do teams not still have to release players to be assessed by their country's physios if claiming not to be fit?

I thought this was introduced to stop club teams saying X was injured and couldn't play this international match, yet they miraculously recovered for the next league game.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607757#Comment_122607757

I think that was moreso for AFCON where players would be injured until after the tournament started and then recovered to play for their club WHILE AFCON was being held. If they were injured for AFCON they were to be unavailable until the end of AFCON. I dont think it comes into it for international breaks with no league fixtures.

DM_7

I think Ferguson is out since late March, was not fit for preseason and not back by the start of he season. Don't think he has played other than minutes for Ireland.

The BBC reported some interesting comments from Alan Browne on Ireland and Ferguson. It is not good that the team are expecting individuals to step up and do something for them or that they are already looking at Evan (probably explains why he was played):

"We probably don't have that presence, that Premier League quality player that stands out a mile from the rest like you might have had in years gone by."

"Boys are playing in the Premier League and doing quite well, but we don't have that world-class figure that everyone looks at and thinks he is going to win us the game."

"I know Evan [Ferguson] has obviously got a bright future, but it is a lot to put on his shoulders, being so young and he hasn't played a lot of football."

Browne, who has won 37 caps for his country, disputed the notion the Republic of Ireland do not have leaders in the group, instead pointing to their lack of quality in the final third as a greater factor in their losing streak.

"I think there are quite a lot of leaders in there," said the 29-year-old.

"There are quite a lot of players who have captained their club or captained their country, so you are probably just missing that presence rather than leadership."

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608207#Comment_122608207

Browne is bound to say that though isn't he? There are different kind of captains. Ireland need a vocal one that is not afraid to shout organise and cajole. Bar Coleman who is there beyond that?

They have such timid temperaments from what I see. Types who you like your daughter to marry.

Badly need to change that and increase the intensity of play for a start. It is the only way this group can get results.

HH is probably wondering what he got himself in for. He has inherited a broken team with broken boys not men.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608271#Comment_122608271

Have You ever seen Conor McCormack playing for galway united, that's the kind of character Ireland need, someone who will let his teammates know if they aren't pulling their weight.

Ireland definitely don't have someone like that.

LuckyLloyd

The second half was bitterly disappointing, and you can't get away from the reality in the stands - people are clearly fed up. Another clear loss to Greece was hard to take.

Personally I think I've seen enough of Molumby and Knight at this point to know they aren't good enough to be part of a team winning matches at this level. They aren't good enough technically to take control of the ball and make things happen - but similarly they tend to be very easy for opponents to play through.

I think the first half was something to build on, and Sammie Szmodics was a bright spot.

But you look at Collins struggling and Ferguson so miserably off the pace and you are left deflated - it seems any player we have been excited about over the past half decade has had the wheels come off their career. We are bitterly short of technical quality, so I think a consideration should be made of reaching much deeper into the pool and giving players a chance. Or considering Collins in midfield maybe.

We MUST become more difficult to play through, it is an absolute necessity.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607753#Comment_122607753

It's a good idea in theory but not in practice.

Irish clubs are over a hundred years old and they're not going to just dissolve overnight.

An all Ireland league and team is worth trying I think.

Another good idea is the Irish leagues join up with Scotland for a "Celtic league".

The Scottish clubs would be miles ahead initially but I think we'd catch up eventually.

We'd have a proper TV deal and a huge increase in revenue and attendances.

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609220#Comment_122609220

I was actually impressed with Molumby over both games. Smallbone was disappointing I thought despite somehow getting the POM against Greece.

Fully agreed on the people being fed up. I don't understand how with 3 CBs and 3 CMs (4 I guess if you include Knight in there) there were none finding space for a pass and they always had to go wide from Collins picking it up at CB. Probably a limitation of the wing backs and a narrow system.

It's hard to pinpoint the one thing. I don't think we are truly awful at any one aspect but we are not good at anything either. It's just going through the motions. A deference as shown by the captain backing off when the opposition striker gets the ball at the edge of the box.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609263#Comment_122609263

How was Molumby impressive? From my vantage point he was painfully lightweight and we are avoiding playing through him. So what are you left with?

He is definitely trying, I'll say that. He's the definition of honest, but I just don't see him at this level.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609263#Comment_122609263

We lack patterns of play to progress the ball up the pitch. It's like developing your pieces in chess. It's very important as you can't play direct all the time.

I'm not sure if HH can coach that. His CV isn't that impressive. I'd have gone for Big Sam.

We've a decent group of players but lacking full backs, pace (besides Ogbene), a goalscorer and a creative AM/no 10.

So we're missing a lot so have to work with what we got.

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609276#Comment_122609276

Maybe it is more the trying but I thought when he did get on the ball he was the tidiest of the midfielders from a very low bar and got back brilliantly once or twice against England when they were caught on the break.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609255#Comment_122609255

Will you stop.

Anyone who is not already interested in going to Bray Wanders will not get interested just because they are now also playing Crusaders or Cowdenbeath as well as Cobh Ramblers or Cork City.

The league needs to make sure that the teams already there can survive and possibly grow their numbers, improve their facilities etc.

English and European soccer will always draw the greatest interest and will always dominate, but there is a place for the LOI, it's just up to the LOI to make sure they are sustainable.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609309#Comment_122609309

Yeah, would definitely agree with your take on Molumby alright… thought he got himself a lot more involved than Smallbone and Knight, who were both really disappointing both in and out of possession across the two games I think. In an ideal world we'd be able to bring in a whole new midfield, but we have to work with what we have, and Molumby is the one from that trio I'd be keeping in there. Cullen comes straight in as well. From there… we can all only hope that Bosun Lawal has a big season in the Chapionship this year!

pgj2015

I thought Smallbone did well against Greece, some nice creative passes from him, he made the passes then his teammates messed up the move. It was through Smallbone I actually saw a glimpse of what HH was trying.

farmerval

The problem for the coach is that most/all of the players have deficiencies, the coach's job is to maximize what he has. A player like Collins is about OK in the lower reaches of the premier league, the team will be drilled in ways to not have his weaknesses exposed, and make the most out of his arial ability from free kicks corners etc.

Small bone seemed to play well against Greece in Irelands best spell, he linked well with Ogbene, made good runs etc. but in all his games with Ireland he's so easy to play through, when Ireland are not going well he's totally anonymous. It's similar throughout the team.

Under Stephen Kenny our midfield were like a bloody sieve, the amount of goals we concede from in front of the box is shocking. When the Greek striker picked up the ball the other night for the two centre halves to step back was incredible. We pressed very effectively in the first half, presumably the end coach making his mark a little, but we look extremely fragile mentally. Maybe that's the cost of keeping Stephen Kenny there for so long.

athlone99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610015#Comment_122610015

Ah there it is, its Stephen Kennys fault despite not having managed the team in 9/10 months. Or maybe the players just arent that good.

farmerval

No, when Stephen Kenny was a dead man walking the FAI needed to make a change. Leaving a Zombie set up in place was a shocking lack of leadership by the FAI.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610388#Comment_122610388

Did they have had the money to terminate his contract early?

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610388#Comment_122610388

If they could've sourced and gotten in the actual replacement back then, that would have been ideal. But as far as our current situation goes, had an interim been in place earlier I don't really see us being in a better place right now because of it.

Their failing was in not getting someone permanent of suitable quality in asap, much moreso than just not sacking Kenny in favour of 'whoever'.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609343#Comment_122609343

How come Scotland with 5 million people have a far superior league than Ireland. All of Ireland has 7 million now. Ie 40% more people than Scotland. Could have a league as good if not better. They have the same problem being beside the english league so not sure that is an excuse.

It seems people here are content with the fact that LOI is far poorer and less followed relative to other European countries the same size..... it is ireland, sure the league will alway remain shi* .seems to be the thinking.

Rugby made huge success here when it was shaken up and the four provinces was introduced.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610773#Comment_122610773

Seems weird to say "all of Ireland has 7 million"… what's that got to do with anything? Might as well say 'all of the island of Great Britain has 65 million', as it's about as relevent. The League of Ireland is just Ireland, with 5.1 million, a hair under Scotland's 5.4 million. The point, league area to league area, still stands.

As for why it's better, well, money. More investment into infrastructure and academies, both from government and via more profitable clubs.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610780#Comment_122610780

Well generally the bigger the market/fan base the better the league. If the leagues were merged it would be a start to improveing it.

Pauliedragon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610773#Comment_122610773

The Scottish league doesn't have the GAA to compete with.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610773#Comment_122610773

Soccer has been the main game in Scotland since the 1880s, it's support runs deep, all the way down to the lowest level, and it's been that way for over a century.

That's not the case in Ireland, in Ireland the GAA is what soccer is in Scotland.

You can't change that by just merging teams or creating an All Ireland league, or creating teams and hoping they get support.

Rugby is totally different, you have the high profile national team and the four provinces, but after that it's dead, the club game, the All Ireland League which was introduced in the early 1990s before professionalism has been totally eclipsed by the four provinces.

It's a dead zone, one man and his dog territory.

Zico !

A bit harsh on the league there I think its improving -of course the disastrous appointment of Heimir will reduce the publics interest in football in the country.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610773#Comment_122610773

I think Scotland has the highest attendance per capita in the world or Europe so it's not a good comparison.

I think average LOI attendance for the top tier was 3300 last season and is 3500 this season.

With Cork City promoted and Derry's new stand, it'll be close to 4000 next season.

That's actually a pretty healthy attendance.

With the new Dalymount and other stadium upgrades, I think we'll hit 5000 in a few years which is actually plenty.

The problem with the LOI is that there's no TV deal and transfer fees are very low.

I think what would really boost the LOI is if the government funded the LOI academies. This might only cost 20 or 30 million a year in total.

If each club had a full time academy from under 6s up for both boys and girls, you're not just developing players but you're developing fans and ties with the community.

With this you'd see sustainable growth and then in time we might see a proper TV deal. That might take 10 or 20 years though.

You'd also get more revenue from advertising and sponsorship as well as producing better players and higher transfer fees.

What do people think is the number of LOI fans in Ireland?

Not necessarily fans who regularly attend games but follow a team and follow the league.

Is it maybe 100,000 people? Maybe a little less.

That's probably not enough for a TV deal.

But with sustainable growth from the LOI academies maybe in 20 years that number could be 200,000 or 300,000.

We'll have a population of 6 million in a few years and assuming no economic crash, we'll be a very wealthy nation.

I still think an all Ireland league and national team is a good idea if possible.

We'd have a population then of 8 million in a few years which might be enough for a TV deal.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611151#Comment_122611151

Based on the attendances at the last two FAI Cup finals it'd be more than 100,000 people who'd follow a team but are not necessarily regular attendees.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611135#Comment_122611135

Knee Jerk reaction. He has been in two games. Too early to call it a disaster

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611331#Comment_122611331

A lot of the supporters at the FAI Cup Finals are schoolboys going on a club-organised day out. Very few of them have any allegiance to either of the teams in the final. They're more interested in the fun of a day out (eg Bohs flares) than the football on offer. I'd guess that these would number at least 5000, but the FAI would know exactly how many of those type of tickets they give out. I think it's an excellent idea nonetheless and there's been a big improvement in the atmosphere with the stadium almost full compared to 10 years ago. But I'd be wary of using it as evidence of strong underlying interest in the LoI.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611397#Comment_122611397

True but even so take them out and you still have a crowd of 35000+ last year and 25000+ the year before approximately. And that's not including that two of the biggest clubs with the largest floating fanbases in Cork City and Shamrock Rovers aren't included and you're close to if not above the 100,000. It is tricky to judge the underlying LOI fanbase and interest levels alright but I do think it's higher than 100,000.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611424#Comment_122611424

Maybe it's closer to 200,000. 20 clubs * 10,000.

kksaints

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611602#Comment_122611602

I'd say it's around that. It's very tricky to judge because for some clubs 10,000 would be a clear underestimate but for some particularly those like Cobh Ramblers and UCD in the 1st division it's an overestimate. That's not meant as a dig at the clubs particularly Cobh but they are just a very small club with a small catchment area.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611756#Comment_122611756

Yeah I meant on average.

Lots of clubs would be less than 10,000 and only have a few 1000 fans like Cobh, UCD, Kerry, Longford, Athlone, Wexford but the Dublin clubs and Cork city would be more than 10,000.

Even clubs like Galway, Limerick and Waterford, what would be their fanbase?Maybe 5000 or 6000 or 7000 or so.

I don't mean die hard fans who attend every game but people who follow the team and the league and maybe go to the odd game.

I'm a big supporter of the Kerry GAA team but I rarely go to games so I'd consider myself as part of the fanbase.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611135#Comment_122611135

I don’t see that the appointment of any manager of the national team should have any impact on support for the league. It never has, for good or ill. Certainly doesn’t affect my support for my team.