Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616882#Comment_122616882

I’m afraid that’s not a true statement from the statistical poll you’ve posted.
Almost 25% of Independent voters believe what Trump said to be true and an additional 26% are not sure -,nothing of what you posted in that contradicts what I’ve said above

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616903#Comment_122616903

The academic studies say different - we’ll agree to disagree so

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616908#Comment_122616908

51% of independents think he was lying. Those are horrible numbers for him and if their main takeaway from the debate was him lying that is not a good thing.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616915#Comment_122616915

No, they don't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

There is no scientific evidence supporting the claims made by NLP advocates, and it has been called a pseudoscience.

[8][9][10]

 Scientific reviews have shown that NLP is based on outdated metaphors of the brain's inner workings that are inconsistent with current neurological theory, and that NLP contains numerous factual errors.

[7][11]

 Reviews also found that research that favored NLP contained significant methodological flaws, and that there were three times as many studies of a much higher quality that failed to reproduce the claims made by Bandler, Grinder, and other NLP practitioners.

[9][10]

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616891#Comment_122616891

The American media and of course social media loves to play on the high crime thing.

In reality their crime rate has been falling steadily for the last number of years.

Fear sells though.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616923#Comment_122616923

I have referred to NLP AND psychology throughout - studies I’ve posted are psychology related not NLP related - but considering he’s hanging out with conspiracy theorists who do use manipulation to earn their living I also referred to NLP techniques which are often used as devices of manipulation but many such techniques are rooted in pure psychology - especially the falsehoods and violent imagery

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616920#Comment_122616920

Funny you mention 51%-.thats also the statistic of people who earn over 100k dollars a year as family income and who don’t believe him - I don’t imagine Trumps target audience for the tripe he’s selling would be in that sort of income category - so no real surprise there

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616932#Comment_122616932

You said that academic studies showed that NLP works and wasn't nonsense.

You used the term NLP.

You are now trying to walk this back.

If you agree that NLP is nonsense and doesn't work, why did you bring it up as part of your argument. Why did you argue falsely that studies showed it worked?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616930#Comment_122616930

It does indeed - my view is Harris won’t win on the border and immigrant issue - she likely needs to get going on the economy - I haven’t seen her talk it up enough nor have I heard how she’ll continue to make it great -doesn’t matter what the reality is here - perception is everything - if Trump says economy is sh1t regardless of whether it’s true or not, that narrative will stick until Harris provides an articulate yet simple to understand and convincing response

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616941#Comment_122616941

Nlp can indeed work - I’m not walking back on that - but I never said it universally works

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616945#Comment_122616945

But academic studies disagree with you. Nothing about "universally working".

You claimed that they did agree with you. This wasn't true.

The fact you believe that NLP is legit and aren't aware of all of the evidence against it also makes me doubt that you are accurate with your claims about "psychology".

Neuro Lingustic Programming is nonsense. It's psuedoscience. It's marketing buzz words sold in scammy books to people who think it can work. And it's used by magicians to make mentalism tricks sound more modern.

It doesn't work at all. And it doesn't work in the way you are ascribing it, where politicians tell racist lies to mind control people into voting for them.

Nor have you made a very convincing argument that this is what Trump was doing rather than just telling a racist lie cause he was ranting and can't filter what he rants.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616955#Comment_122616955

…….rather than just telling a racist lie cause he was ranting and can't filter what he rants.”

Interesting theory.
Except Trump has been around corporate world all his life- he’s well used and practiced in the techniques of manipulation -they’re used daily across the world

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616959#Comment_122616959

Lol just ignoring all of your falsehoods about NLP then? I will infer that you can't address these points.

And not sure why him "being in the corporate world" precludes him from ranting, being a racist or having no filter.

Especially when he's not a very good business man.

I don't believe that he was actually using a super secret corporate mind control technique (that does not actually work). You've not put forward a very good reason to believe this.

Oscar_Madison

More fear- doesn’t have to be true to be believed as the poster above with all those statistics has clearly shown

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13850661/melania-trump-video-promotes-new-book-warning.html

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616966#Comment_122616966

Yea, people aren't arguing that people can't believe things that aren't true.

People are disagreeing with your claims that Trump and co are using fake mind control magic as part of a clever strategy when they claimed foreign people are eating pets. People are disagreeing with your claims that these racist lies are going to be very effective in convincing undecided voters. People are pointing out that the majority of undecided people are actually just put off by such obvious racism and lies.

And that these unhinged claims are just going to result in more issues for Trump. It's given Dems plenty of fodder and with all of these bomb threats resulting from his racist lies, it's not a great look for him.

So if Trump actually did this cause of a strategy based on bullshit marketing nonsense that he doesn't realise doesn't work and has shot himself in the foot with it. Then good.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616963#Comment_122616963

I mentioned NLP once in my earlier posts in conjunction with psychology and you’re going on about it ever since. Sorry I’m not engaging you’re just badgering now. Between the links and my explanations I’ve been very clear. We’re done.

Oscar_Madison

It appears Trumps method of influence is rubbing off on the opposition now:-Tim Waltz getting a hard time for his very minor indiscretions and embellishments - something most politicians do daily - would probably have been better had he made these outrageous lies - they’d probably have been more “effectively persuasive”-now voters are thinking can I trust this person? Bizzare yes.

“Many political psychologists and scientists quickly added that Walz’s mistruths pale compared to those told by former President Trump, who they argue has set the latest blueprint for competing in national politics.

Dr Jon Krosnick, a psychologist who studies political behavior at Stanford University, told DailyMail.com that Trump’s tendency to spout mistruths has transformed how politicians communicate and try to woo voters. 

It signals to other politicians that stretching the truth is a viable way of currying favor with voters and, ultimately, winning the post as the most powerful person in the world.

He said: ‘His perspective is, as long as I say stuff that convinces people to continue to support me, that might move some undecided people in the direction of supporting me. It doesn't matter whether it's true or not, just if it's effectively persuasive.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13822279/psychologist-explain-tim-walz-lies-kamala-harris-vice-president.html

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616974#Comment_122616974

And then you claimed that studies showed NLP was effective. Then when I showed that wasn't the case, you tried walking it back, then reversed again claiming that it does work, just not universally.

Yes, I'm going on about it because if a part of your position is based on an obviously psuedoscientific concept that doesn't actually work, that's a large issue with your position.

If you have such an incorrect opinion about NLP, it's not very likely that your conclusions about "psychology" aren't going to be very sound either.

The fact you ignore and dodge when this is called out and then decree that you aren't going to engage because someone points this out too much indicates your position wasn't the most honest in the first place. Hence when your arguments aren't convincing.

Maybe if you're trying to make a point about this, don't include psuedo scientific ideas that you don't believe in to support your idea.

Overheal

The only people fearful right now are the people being targeted by bomb threats and the like in Ohio, by Trump's cowards phoning such things in.

For virtually everyone else, the last thing they're afraid of is migrants eating pets. It's a big joke that underscores how far Trump's mind has gone: "The people on television say my dog was taken and used for food!" Okay grandpa, time for bed.

Anyway here's my favorite of the viral remixes of his senior moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BrCvZmSnKA

Shoog

This whole clever psychological trick idea hasn't panned out well then.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616868#Comment_122616868

Sorry man, can't control what people infer from what I actually write.

I don't know, isn't that essentially the point being argued? Some bizarre form of mind control?

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616966#Comment_122616966

Oh I don't know man.

You seemed to be pretty sure this lady's book would sway moderate voters...

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1834940882992218270

And I don't believe that either....

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617059#Comment_122617059

Mind control?
Sorry now - I’ve never said mind control

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617064#Comment_122617064

But Everlast! This is her echoing Trump with her uncanny «softer» style! They’ll love her “softer” style!!

But seriously, dear god, so this is the blockheaded marketing approach for the book? Make it indistinguishable from a politcal campaign advert? Now, I know the book itself is little more than a campaign object, but I thought they’d at least try to pretend thar it was an honest memoir-type thing.
Damned thing barely has a cover design either…this is extremely low effort.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617064#Comment_122617064

Grifters gotta grift.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617064#Comment_122617064

”moderate voters” is your term not mine- I’ve never claimed that

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616882#Comment_122616882

This looks like its part of an interesting poll, could you share the link to the whole thing? thanks

EDIT - don't worry, found it on google

duploelabs

Remember, apart from Jan 6th, trump's words have inspired no violence whatsoever according to our resident centerist

https://www.salon.com/2024/09/14/third-day-of-bomb-inspired-by-lies-sends-springfield-hospitals-into/

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617068#Comment_122617068

What did you expect just over one month out from the election? It was clearly sign posted that this would be the MO.

If you wish to mock me to other posters go ahead, but it just shows to me a lack of any understanding around the science and tactics of influence and persuasion - these videos are not designed to influence you- they’re designed for the very few swing voters that are expected to disproportionately influence the outcome of this election.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616458#Comment_122616458

Harris was the better “speaker” - but it was Trump that landed the most memorable lines- doesn’t matter if it was about eating cats- that’s what the audience remembers - 

I'm not with you on the idea that people are seeing cat eaters every time they walk past immigrants, but I definitely agree with you that there is deliberate method in Trump's madness that people are underestimating.

It's not only what the audience remembers, it's also everybody is talking about.

As long as they're talking about cats, even if they're mocking it in disbelief, they're talking about immigration as an issue in the campaign.

And as longs as they're talking about immigration, an issue that helps Trump, they're not talking about Project 25, an issue that hurts Trump.

Project 25 is Trump's kryptonite, the debate was the perfect opportunity to put it in front of a larger audience and keep it at top of news agenda.

I've heard very little chat about it post debate because everybody is talking about immigrants eating cats.