Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617130#Comment_122617130

THANK YOU. At last someone gets it.

I posted similar yesterday evening - Trump has done well in polls concerning security- much better than Biden (when the polls were done) - stoking up fear on the border makes security a higher agenda item - which favours Trump.

As for “seeing” cat eaters - no. It’s simply a device to associate something negative with the concept of immigrants - it’s difficult to stop thoughts coming into your mind - if you associate something extreme and grotesque with something else, say immigrants in this instance -in some people it can generate negative feelings towards that something that else - that’s all it is- and it works on many people . It’s how fraudsters extract millions from people every year - getting them to do something through manipulation of a situation and suggestion - it’s not rocket science and nor is it voodoo -

And the other thing they’re not talking about because they’re talking about cat eaters- is what points Harris made.

Anyone actually remember now what key election points Harris made? 🤪

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616937#Comment_122616937

The point being made, that you aren't getting, is that the people that might believe what Trump is saying are already Trump voters.

"Independent" does not mean "undecided".

The 24% of Independents that think his racist horseshit could be true are already voting for him.

There are no true undecided voters that are going to have their minds changed by this Tripe.

You are really overthinking this stuff.

We've had pages and pages of you trying to talk everyone into the idea that Melanias "memoir" was going to be some kind of electoral game changer for Trump as well

Neither of these things are going to have a material positve impact on the Election for Trump.

They just aren't.

Shoog

This is all a dog whistle exercise in how to attack Harris in a racist way without actually been racist about Harris. It has a target demographic who are already Trump voters - it's not going to win the election as they are already locked in. It's a campaign strategy to remind voters that Harris is black without explicitly stating it.

Watch as the needle sticks firmly below the ceiling of 46% as testament to this inescapable fact.

The purpose of all this is to highlight how racist Trump is, but it's a losing strategy.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617173#Comment_122617173

I haven’t “over thought” anything - it’s other posters that are leaping in with the terms “mind control” and “voodoo”

If you’re classed as an “Independent” voter which those people were, whom professed that they believed there was at least an element of truth in what Trump said, then no, they’re not classed as a Trump voter. It’s clearly called out in that statistical breakdown.
If you can’t accept that certain people are open to suggestion , especially when that suggestion is not true, then sorry we’ll beg to differ- but they don’t have to be “Trump voters” - their profile tends to be poorly educated and low incomes - which the statistics bear out.

manniot2

Anyone on here trying to make a case for Donald Trump is wasting their time. Everyone in Ireland thinks the same - whatever they hear on RTE

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617196#Comment_122617196

No, people have looked at the character of the man and found it wanting. He's an extreme wannabe dictator who has indulged in various forms of criminality throughout his long life. Nothing to defend really.

If the Republicans had have put up a decent human being we might be able to discuss the merits of their campaign.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617196#Comment_122617196

They are wasting their time because you can't make make a good case for him.
He is a racist, a rapist, a felon. He tried to subvert the result of the last last election.
On national US TV, he comes out with racist madeup drivel about immigrants eating pets.
40 out of 44 members of his previous administration refuse to endorse him.

If you go back through the citations and linked articles on this thread, very few are from RTE.
In most instances they are US content, the Guardian also.
So the claim it is only "whatever they hear on RTE" doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

If the vast majority of people looking at a situation assess it one way, people with access to information from home and abroad, maybe you should consider the possibility they making the right call on the available evidence.
Like the juries in Trump's trials when presented with the evidence.

You want to try to explain how Trumps economic plan inc tariffs will be good for Ireland? Global trade? The US economy?

md23040

Trump continually purposely deflects away from his policy on healthcare or economy, with his nonsense drill baby drill and import tariffs filling the government coffers to surplus.

He instead throws pet eating claims out there as a distraction that feeds into his racist, anti immigration fear mongering rhetoric. And he’s going to keep doing this, hoping his frenzied media remarks gets him traction and public takes the bait, whilst importantly the American public don’t look under the hood on what he will actually do to make their life’s better.

pjohnson

i've not seen any link between cat eating and immigrants to help Trump. I've only seen the cat comments mocked non-stop and people saying Trump needs the Old Yeller treatment as the Big Macs have finally suffocated his last few brain cells.

The old all publicity is good publicity trope is generally nonsense.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617191#Comment_122617191

Independent in the US just means that they have not officially registered as a member of the Democratic or GOP parties.

99.9% of voters in Ireland are "Independent" voters under the US definition as almost none of us are registered with any of the parties.

It does not mean they are centrists or undecided at all.

In fact the overwhelming majority of "Independents" never change their voting preferences and are as solidly Dem or Rep as any others, they've just not bothered ticking that single box in the form.

Of course some people are open to suggestion, but all those that are open to this kind of suggestion are already in the bag for Trump, that's the point.

There aren't any meaningful numbers of people not yet planning to vote for him that are going to be swayed by this messaging.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617248#Comment_122617248

It just takes up the oxegen so they don't have to talk about the non-existent policies

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617247#Comment_122617247

He will certainly keep doing it.Clinton won the popular vote in 2016 and lost the election, albeit mainly due to the investigation on her emails announcement - but Trump had sown seeds of doubt for months with the well known chant of “lock her up” - it was a foregone conclusion certain people would then have reservations about Hilary - Trump is hoping that something similar will happen this time - what? Who knows. But he’s obviously banking on the topic of immigration to get him those badly needed swing votes from voters who last time likely were persuaded that Clinton was a crook

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617278#Comment_122617278

I had reservations about Clinton, which was a common enough sentiment among left leaning people. She forced herself in the nomination and it was widely talked about by liberals that it was a bad idea. She never engendered enthusiasm outside of the core Democrat base.

She was seen as a war monger and it was widely believed that if she was in power there would be a conflict in the Ukraine which she would initiate ( maybe she was right all along).

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617262#Comment_122617262

“There aren't any meaningful numbers of people not yet planning to vote for him that are going to be swayed by this messaging.”

Fear is an incredible weapon in elections- people want to move away from it as quickly as possible. Point being, if he creates fear in certain people open to such suggestion, he’s bagged those votes- aren’t the uncertain swing states where everyone is focusing their attention? It doesn’t matter if people think Trumps methods are “barmy” - they only have to work for these relatively few people.

Let’s move from Trump for a second- what does Harris have to do to convince these sub set of voters? And how exactly will they “hear” what she’s saying? Because right now, Trump has all the media focus- that’s not good obviously- but it’s bloody clever in my view - it makes it much harder for Harris to get her voice heard

valoren

Self-righteous mental gymnastics to avoid the optics of being wrong. He made a statement, got corrected on it and is now doubling down to avoid admitting he is wrong.

It is like the Four Seasons fiasco after the election. A press conference was announced to be held at a Four Seasons hotel. The hotel told them to get lost and so, instead of simply sending out a correction/new venue amenable to them and showing they were wrong in that announcement, they went and had the presser in front of the "Four Seasons", a landscaping outlet.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617313#Comment_122617313

Or the Helsinki conference

Water John

Harris probably needs to use local media in the swing states, which I think she's doing. We may not see that message over here. She needs a more comprehensive economic policy to make the, cost of living, more affordable and articulate that message better. Above all, she has to electrify the Dems foot soldiers, to get out the vote. If Dems vote in large numbers, she wins.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617307#Comment_122617307

She needs to get on TV daily talking about the economy.

Gas prices are dropping fast, Inflation is coming down rapidly, Employment is going well, Wages are outpacing Inflation.

She and Walz need to be on TV giving short snappy interviews every single day.

A few big sit-downs as well, but quick 5/10 minuters every single day hammering home the messaging that they inherited a turd from Trump, have fixed it and that the upward journey will continue.

They also need to drive the message that Trumps tariffs will kill them and the economy.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617313#Comment_122617313

I don’t believe he ever believed the statement in the first instance - it was in the same camp of that well worn phrase you often see posted here in jest when highlighting paranoia “they’re stealing our wimmins”

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617334#Comment_122617334

I totally agree- every single day. Short succinct and memorable messages.

I suggested a few days ago what I think is a very radical idea - choosing an area in a swing state where her number crunchers have identified as a key voting area that needs to be turned blue- and simply arrive, and start knocking on doors unannounced and talk to the voters- I think the positive publicity generated would be massive . I don’t know do ordinary congressmen and women do door to door canvassing - but I can’t think of a president that has done such a mad thing- it will show she’s not afraid to be with the people where they live- not just at rallies in meaningless stadiums

Dingaan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617334#Comment_122617334

Like she's capable of articulating any of these points. She's a train wreck in front of a camera.

The bunker strategy might be her best bet.

Oscar_Madison

BBC news channel -“Path to the Presidency” commentary on how the candidates are doing as well as criticism - while they’re complimentary on Harris, there is a clear issue here around to what degree Harris has got key messages out there - I don’t believe she has and a “good performance” at the debate which I think is universally accepted is just not good enough.

She’s said she has a housing policy- but hasn’t stated what it is. She did promise to support small businesses - but I’d agree that point is long lost and forgotten and essentially erased by Trumps extreme performance in people’s memories now.

3 separate groups of people according to David Pluff- Obamas campaign and a Harris adviser

1. There are a lot of voters who want to learn more about Harris - 4-8% of voters - these would be reassured by the debate
2. Group 2- people thinking of not voting at all - these people will have seen a high energy performance by Harris
3. People leaning towards Trump but don’t like his character - he felt some of those people would feel demoralised by Trumps performance

But Harris camp officials still believe this election will be won on the margins - 5000 here, 3000 voters there -clearly Trump is also targeting people on the margins - and right now, it’s Trump they’re listening to- Harris needs desperately to get her voice heard to these people.- the panel discussing this morning are all in agreement on that

Also - postal votes going out in Alabama and other states in the coming days- you can’t influence these people in a month from now - it’s now or never

Finally - many of these voters are focused on the process of good in supermarkets - that’s a massive hill to climb for someone like Harris who isn’t exactly known as an economist or specialist in the markets and what to do to improve them - she got criticised for trying to reduce price gouging by her own party because interfering with free markets is frowned upon in America and could lead to bigger prices rises or reduced competition

A thought provoking and honest assessment have to say -

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122616874#Comment_122616874

Oh, I’m not saying they weren’t memorable lines. For sure they will be the main take aways from the debate. If that was the sole object of the exercise, then fine. But what makes you think that this will sway crucial voters in swing States ? My point is, this is appealing to his committed fan base only. He ain’t convincing anyone else.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617559#Comment_122617559

What debate were you watching this week? There was only one train wreck. Similarly her interviews to date have not been train wrecks. Are you in another dimension or something?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617610#Comment_122617610

“My point is, this is appealing to his committed fan base only. He ain’t convincing anyone else.”

See my post above that I’ve just posted on the BBC News programme - there were 3 commentators on that show and none of them said that the undecided are “Trump voters” - not one person.
What they did say though, having travelled those states and interviewed those voters is that two things are on their minds - the price of goods (ergo the economy) and immigration - but particularly the price of goods.

I’ve seen “Trump is only preaching to the converted now” statement many times on this thread - I’m sorry I don’t agree. And Harris can’t afford to take that advice either - she has to at least being seeing to try - otherwise post election if Trump wins, the key criticism will be “she didn’t get her message out there clearly” - I remember her comments from the debate on supporting small businesses - one of the few policy related comments that would impact positively on the economy-,but the voters complaining about supermarket prices aren’t small business owners looking for grants - two totally different audiences in general - she said nothing that would appease this audience and she need to

Dingaan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617615#Comment_122617615

You have a very low bar for Presidential candidates if you think her performances have been good. Could you provide an example of her answering a question by articulating her point of view with facts and precise details?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617652#Comment_122617652

So says you ...

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122617652#Comment_122617652

It’s not that her performances and specifically her performance at the debate was bad- it wasn’t.

But she had many bases to hit on that 90 minutes - convince the people she was a worthy presidential candidate - pass. Deal with and stand up to Trump- pass. Influence people who don’t know her that shes a credible person - pass. Detail all of her key policies that will influence voters to vote for her and provide a clear and tangible reassurance that both immigration and the economy are in or will be in good hands- no I don’t believe she achieved that for at least some voters- she’s more work to do on those areas.

Shoog

Gaining in Iowa, massive jump from Bidens last polling and more enthusiasm among Democrats than republicans. Could very easily go Blue.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2024/09/15/iowa-poll-donald-trump-iowa-lead-shrinks-as-kamala-harris-replaces-joe-biden/75180245007/

Bobeagleburger

They democrats winning Iowa is extremely unlikely.

Best priced 12/1 for anyone that thinks otherwise.