Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630452#Comment_122630452

He never praised the neo nazis. Never. Its a lie. I have shown you a video twice and provided a transcript.

He made a statement and filtered out the scum element. How anyone can try to keep saying it is just weird

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630460#Comment_122630460

He said he wasnt talking about nazis so you are wrong

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630465#Comment_122630465

Am I lying now? Really. So the ones claiming that he was saying neo nazis are fine people. They arent lying. I am lying?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630467#Comment_122630467

He said there were fine people on both sides. The reality is that one side was made up entirely of Neo Nazis and white supremacists.... So one said were categorically not fine people. And I'll repeat, he would have been briefed on who had organized the march etc.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630467#Comment_122630467

You have shown a video which shows him doing exactly what I described. Its not a compelling defense of him not defending neo-nazi's - even though you think it does.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630471#Comment_122630471

But he said both sides. One side was entirely Nazis.

You are now saying he said "Both sides had fine people, except for the side that was all nazis. So there was only good people on one side". Very strange.

You also claimed that it wasn't a neo nazi rally. That was a lie on your part.

Do you still stand by that claim?

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630478#Comment_122630478

I will also repeat

He said he is not talking about the white supremacists and neo nazis. He condemned them.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630486#Comment_122630486

The video literally has him calling them out and saying he is not talking about them. Bit weird you are trying to lie. Not surprised though

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630471#Comment_122630471

But he must have been talking about nazis there were only nazis there.

So Trump called nazis fine people. Statement of fact.

He told them what they wanted to hear
You can go to a rally, start a riot, and spout anti semitic drivel about Jews and Trump as President of the US will call you 'fine people'. That is the takeaway the nazi scum took from the racist scumbag Trump.

Trump was talking out of both sides of his mouth as usual. And fooled you.

How many of Trump's lies and double dealing are you going to fall for before you start questioning the source?

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630489#Comment_122630489

I have said repeatedly that I dont care who organised the rally. It doenst matter. A couple of you lot are using that to distract form the fact you are lying.

And really this proves what I have been saying about rhetoric and biased media. Im sure that you actually believed he said these things until I put the video to you. Eye opening really isnt it

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630477#Comment_122630477

You absolutely are. Would you attend a rally that consists of Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? Can you point to a single person on the side of Kessler and Spencer that wasn't a Neo Nazi or white supremacist? Just the one. The question then becomes why did Trump use that phrasing.

The logical conclusion is that the people who attended who say they're not white supremacists or Neo Nazis but use some cleaned up phrases such as "racial purists" then conclude they're some of the fine people who Trump is referring to. But ultimately they're still the same kind of scum that Trump wants the vote of.

Have you accepted it was a Neo Nazi March yet?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630497#Comment_122630497

Its been explained to you by numerous people why what he says is not what he meant - and why it couldn't be what he meant since there were only neo-nazi's at that rally.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630505#Comment_122630505

Yea totally. It had to have been him lying

Not at all lies that have come from misrepresenting the comments in the media from the left.

Just like when Biden said that bloodbath means violence on the streets.

The words are there for you. Its up to you to read or listen to them. But I have a feeling I have you sussed lad.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630520#Comment_122630520

Just like when Biden said that bloodbath means violence on the streets.

When did he say that?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630507#Comment_122630507

Yea. You seem to not care about stuff then moment you're proved wrong about it.

I will take that to mean you don't stand behind your lie. You agree it was a neo nazi rally.

It was organised by neo nazis. it was attended by neonazis and people who support them.

But we've been explaining to you how Trump was praising nazis.

He said that both sides had fine people.

One side had only nazis. There are no other people on that side.

Therefore, he said that some of the people on that side are fine people.

Therefore some of the nazis are fine people.

If you are claiming that he excluded nazis, then there is noone left on that side to be good people.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630508#Comment_122630508

I do not need to point to anyone.

Can you give me a list of attendees? Maybe you can prove they were all white supremacists or neo nazis? How many attended? How many identified form each group that was there? DO you have a breakdown of cohort?

As I said it doesnt matter if you call it a neo nazi march or a hitler parade or a lets round up the foreigners get together. BECAUSE he denounced those and said he isnt talking about them.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630537#Comment_122630537

Can you give me a list of attendees? Maybe you can prove they were all white supremacists or neo nazis? How many attended? How many identified form each group that was there? DO you have a breakdown of cohort?

That was already provided:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630274#Comment_122630274

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630537#Comment_122630537

You can't point to anyone.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630509#Comment_122630509

Yet it doesnt change the words he said. Could it be that your opinion holds less weight than actual evidence? say it isnt so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630533#Comment_122630533

In the video I shared………………………………………………. wow lad

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630546#Comment_122630546

Which video? Where? When?

Beasty

As this is the third thread concerning this election I am setting out some of the basic requirements when posting

Do not be calling Trump a rapist in this thread. Do not be calling posters rapist sympathisers. Do not refer to either candidate in derogatory ways. Do not ridicule either candidate - that includes posting cartoons/gifs etc. Do not be cheering on attmopted violence and the attemps to assassinate Trump. Referring to what they say about each other is fine, but using that to trigger discussion about things like the rape is not.

You can refer to some of the legal issues, but to the extent they relate to either candidate in a personal manner it can be discussed elsewhere such as the dedicated Trump thread. Indeed if you wish to discuss such matters concerning Harris a spoarate thread can be started

And there are to be no link dumps. If you wish to post a link set out what it is about and your own views on it.

Failure to observe these basic standards of posting in this thread can be expected to result in warnings and forum bans in line with the New Rules sticky

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630387#Comment_122630387

Lowering corporation tax. Sucks for us in Ireland. But for them it was a positive. It helped to stimulate growth in the economy.

It had no effect on the economy as any savings by the Corporations impacted was spent overwhelmingly on Share buy-backs and Dividends , it didn't "trickle down"

Judicial Appointments. I know this one will be controversial. But from a conservative pov this was a positive. The same way that when a liberal judge is appointed it is seen as a positive for liberals.

I'll give you that one I guess, although having such a politicised Judicial selection process is fundamentally damaging to the country.

De regulations. His policy on cutting more regulations than allowing was huge.

I'd disagree that this was a benefit , most of his "deregulation" was just removal of oversight allowing Companies to abuse the system.

First Steps Act. Absolutely amazing act that should have been done years prior.

Yes , that was a good act , but Trump had to be dragged kicking and screaming to sign it and now disavows it completely

Covid response. Maybe people will cite his bleach talk. But not many will recognise project warp speed where he directed funds to prioritize the development and distribution of vaccines

Warp speed , Kinda I guess but most of the vaccines came from outside the US and did not get funding via Warp speed. The rest of his Covid response was a singular disaster.

He was responsible for peace in the middle east at the time. His brokering of the abraham accords allowed for normalisation between Israel and the UAE. Things where actually going really well there at the time.

Just No. He moved the Embassy to Jerusalem , killing any pretence of support for a two state solution. And the Abraham accords were tits on a bull in terms of their usefulness in effecting middle-eastern Peace.

Russia after taken Crimea under Obama and Biden were in dialogue with the US again. The Dems didnt like it but there was calming.

Again , just no - "Dialog with Putin" means nothing , he rolled over for belly rubs every time they got together. Did he get Putin out of Crimea or did he say "It's part of Russia" ???

Trump went to North Korea

And?? All he managed he to achieve was to give KJU a level of legitimacy he doesn't deserve. Did he get any treaties signed?

Trump sent military to ease tensions in the China sea

Did he really ?

No new wars happened under Trump. He started plans to withdraw from Afghan. He negotiated with the Taliban to ensure safe withdrawal. Terms that were not kept by the next administration.

No new wars were started under lots of Presidents , it means nothing. And as for his "negotiations" with the Taliban , they were a disaster. Removed all the US Troops , released all the Taliban fighters without conditions and set everyone up for failure.

Jobs growth was up until Covid hit

Not really - Job grow was slowing down way before Covid and was always slower than at any time under Obama , so nothing special.

Crime was down until Covid hit

Crime rates were down in 2017/2018 but increased in 2019 before jumping up in 2020.

Those figures that Trump uses? The same FBI data with the same gaps that he attacks Harris/Biden about. So do we believe his figures but not believe Harris ?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630520#Comment_122630520

Trump has you sussed alright. He can put out whatever ridiculous offensive racist drivel and lies and know there are those who will lap it up without scrutiny and go to bat for him on a social media. You are the one giving him a free pass for his blatant racism and attempts to steal the last election. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil when it comes to Trump, that has been proven by your posts here.

Yep, the words are there and the facts are there and the pictures of the rally on the thread showing the Nazi scum and their paraphernalia. Trump called nazis at the rally \ riot fine people, because as has been established it was a Nazi rally organised by Nazis for Nazis. And if you turn up at such a rally and participate, you're a Nazi racist scumbag too. The flags are a bit of a giveaway.
So those are fine people in Trump's descriptions - racist scum.

Why are you defending a racist scumbag who calls Nazis fine people?

And objectively, Trump is a racist pumping out racist drivel.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630534#Comment_122630534

Its not that I dont seem to care about stuff teh moment Im proven wrong.

Its the fact that you are trying to make this about something else to take away from the lie you and the others keep repeating

It was a rally regarding the taking down of statues. I dont know nor do I care who organised it. I wasnt there. I dont wanna by friends with them either.

Now the actual argument

I have shown you the exact words he said. I dont need you to repeat your "version". We know THE VERSION. What was actually said. Not your opinion. Not my opinion. Nobodies opinion matters here. Because we have the actual words.

He excluded Nazis whether you choose to believe him or not. He excluded them. You not believing him is down to you believing rubbish online even though evidence proves different. Lad you have seen the evidence and you still dont believe it 🤣

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630387#Comment_122630387

First, thank you for the detailed response.

On Trump's character. Not sure how you can write all those negatives about him and still want to defend him. There is nothing in your list of character traits that would make one think that he would make a good politician.

How can you say that he speaks what is on his mind, and then spend so long stating that what he said he didn't mean?

I did notice that you left out he was a serial cheater, a constant liar, a wannabe dictator, a democracy denier, a fraudster, has a record of stiffing on payments, has a huge amount of people that worked for him detests him and never want to work with him again.

On your list of what he did that made his last POTUS term as great.

CT. This was a net negative to the country. Massive tax breaks that didn't come near to stimulating the growth needed to pay for it. His growth rates were in line with previous POTUS, without the need for such a massive giveaway.

Judicial appointments. I agree that this is a positive for right-wing thinkers, but this is not something Trump has control over. If people hadn't died when he was POTUS it wouldn't have happened and clearly, Trump was merely delivering to those who helped him get into power. The right wind and evangelicals helped him get power and this was their payback. But he cannot promise to be able to repeat it.

Deregulation. Like Brexit, the cry to deregulate always sounds great. But regulations are, mainly, made to protect the majority from the excesses of the controlling minority.

1st Steps act - Agree on this, but it flies in the face of almost everything he stands for.

Covid Response - This was a complete disaster. He denied it, attacked those who wanted to take action, openly attacked the medical experts, and focused more on himself and his ratings that saved people's lives. Reports state that Warpspeed was mainly due to Trump getting out of the way and letting those best placed take control. And remember that Trump defunded the China medicines taskforce that was tasked with watching out for early warning about any potential issues.

ME - He was responsible for stoking the tensions that finally blew up, after years of planning. He moved the embassy to Jerusalem in a move he knew would antagonise the Palestinians and the rest of the region. He planted the seeds of what we are now living through.

His continued acquiescence to Russia, including his continued denouncing of NATO, led Putin to believe that the West had lost its appetite and ability to stand up to him. This was given more belief when Trump showed that he wasn't going to support Ukraine unless they gave him what he wanted and Putin took that to mean he could plan the attack. Biden should have been far more unequivocal with Putin and should have made more of an effort to show that despite Trump's effort NATO was still together and willing to do whatever was necessary. But, like the ME, the seeds were sown by Trump

Trump was as pro-war as every other POTUS. The US, itself, is pro-war. It actively enables conflict around the world, either directly or indriectly, in order to achieve it strategic goals. Trump poured even more money into the deep military complex. He inflamed tensions with Iran for example. He stated several times that he welcomed the opportunity to enter into war. Timing was all that was the difference between himself and other POTUS.

Jobs growth is better under Biden and Trump's jobs growth was nothing particularly impressive. Obama delivered more.

Crime has reduced under Biden.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630540#Comment_122630540

Thats a list of organisations

do you have a list of people?

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630548#Comment_122630548

The post of the Bloodbath. I shared the actual video and the ABC edit. It is in the ABC edit. Neither video is long.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630537#Comment_122630537

There's an absence of evidence of any decent person at those rallies. It was made up of Neo Nazi and white supremacist groups. It was organised by Neo Nazis. So it says a lot about the character of Trump that his response was to claim there were fine people on both sides. The fact that you started off by downplaying the Neo Nazi element but can't point to a single normal person at the rally, says a lot about the kind of people present. Meanwhile about 40 different white supremacist and neo Nazi organizations were produced earlier in the thread.

You also ignored my point, if a person views themselves as a "racial purists" or some other modern phrase for a bigot, they can easily conclude they were a good person at that rally. And lots of those groups use creative phrasing to rebrand and to mask how horrifying their views are, they can all conclude Trump is fine with them. I doubt that Trump and his staff were oblivious to the implications of his language.

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630543#Comment_122630543

Yea, i still dont need to because of words that were used. They werent part of a riddle. It was very straight forward.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630560#Comment_122630560

I know that's not the case. When you say things like "I don't care…" or "I don't have to…" its you not actually able to address the point or question and trying to fob it off. It's not a very effective tactic.

So ok. He excluded nazis. So then there was no one on that side who could have been a fine person.

But then he said there were fine people on that side. The side with all the nazis.

So what is it you believe he said. Cause if he was excluding everyone from one side, why did he then say "both sides"?