Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

everlast75

In the run up to the election, Melania comes out in the much anticipated message of support of her husband!

*Checks earpiece*

Sorry... Not her husband.

It's... In defence of her nude photos?

https://twitter.com/MELANIATRUMP/status/1836375317646086533

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630581#Comment_122630581

Ok. You don't need to. I agree. And also, you can't. because there wasn't anyone.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630567#Comment_122630567

Ah would ya stop.

Those are all the organizations that attended.

If 2 Nazis from a Nazi org are joined in a rally by 1 'fine person,' you have 3 Nazis.

Let me know when you find any of the "fine people" but anyway, the central point is that what Kamala Harris said at the debate is objectively and categorically true:

✅ a mob was carrying tiki torches

✅ they were spewing antisemitic hate

✅ as President, Trump said there were "[very] fine people, on [both] sides"

Feel free to debunk any of those claims.

Agent Coulson

She sounds more AI than an AI.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630567#Comment_122630567

I think it's fair to say you're by default a **** person if you attend a rally organised by Neo Nazis.... Think it's a pretty reasonable position.

duploelabs

If you have two bags of apples, and you know there are bad apples in one of the bags. If someone asks you if there are any bad apples in either bag, and you reply 'there are fine apples in both bags', then you have described the bad apples in one of the bags as fine. Hope this clears this up

Redliketoast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630553#Comment_122630553

It had no effect on the economy as any savings by the Corporations impacted was spent overwhelmingly on Share buy-backs and Dividends , it didn't "trickle down"

I agree that not enough trickled down. But it did increase jobs. Companies also had more capital to invest. Of course what constitutes a reasonable outcomes is debatable. But Reducing the tax form 35% to 21% was good for companies. The common man I dont know but at the time cost of living wasnt as high.

I'll give you that one I guess, although having such a politicised Judicial selection process is fundamentally damaging to the country.

Agreed. I dont like how it is done. Way too politicised. I also worry about having terms as it would make them want to keep their jobs or get jobs afterwards. I dont have a solution.

I'd disagree that this was a benefit , most of his "deregulation" was just removal of oversight allowing Companies to abuse the system.

You will always get companies abusing the system. But The US is over regulated right now. They need less regulators with stronger powers.

Yes , that was a good act , but Trump had to be dragged kicking and screaming to sign it and now disavows it completely

He doesnt disavow. He is not talking about it because it is against his parties beliefs. They are all about prison and law.

Warp speed , Kinda I guess but most of the vaccines came from outside the US and did not get funding via Warp speed. The rest of his Covid response was a singular disaster.

Warp speed at least sped things up. They scaled up production to huge levels that wouldnt have been done without it.

Just No. He moved the Embassy to Jerusalem , killing any pretence of support for a two state solution. And the Abraham accords were tits on a bull in terms of their usefulness in effecting middle-eastern Peace.

Where we are now with the ME is not because of the Accords. Things started to go well

Again , just no - "Dialog with Putin" means nothing , he rolled over for belly rubs every time they got together. Did he get Putin out of Crimea or did he say "It's part of Russia" ???

And?? All he managed he to achieve was to give KJU a level of legitimacy he doesn't deserve. Did he get any treaties signed?

There was peace

Did he really ?

Yes

No new wars were started under lots of Presidents , it means nothing. And as for his "negotiations" with the Taliban , they were a disaster. Removed all the US Troops , released all the Taliban fighters without conditions and set everyone up for failure.

Not in a long time

Crime was down until Covid hit

Crime rates were down in 2017/2018 but increased in 2019 before jumping up in 2020.

Those figures that Trump uses? The same FBI data with the same gaps that he attacks Harris/Biden about. So do we believe his figures but not believe Harris ?

The new FBI stats ignore big cities. They didnt back then. I dont know why.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630567#Comment_122630567

Knowing all we that know about the organisers and the overwhelming majority of people that were there that day , can you describe a hypothetical person that would attend that rally that could reasonably be described as "fine people".

Could an art history/statue buff have wanted to attend , simply because they liked the Statuary and not any of the social or political implications of same?

Perhaps , but if they were an otherwise "fine person" would that have stayed and participated once they saw they type of people that were there?

And if they stayed , are they still a "fine person"

To borrow from Joni Mitchell - If I were told that they were planning to "pave paradise and put up a parking lot" I might attend a protest rally about it.

BUT - If I got there and all that could be seen was Swastikas and related Nazi paraphernalia , I would be out the gap faster than you could blink no matter how badly I didn't want the parking lot to be built.

If you were there and you didn't leave , you aren't a fine person.

joe35

Re the fact checking at the debate. Kamilla said trump was behind project 2025.

Whom should the moderators have fact checked this with. Donald Trump??

Whe not in the studio to "fact check" these claims.

The things people are claiming moderators didn't fact check Haris on actually were checked by Trump himself

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630653#Comment_122630653

To be specific.

What you have done by using that language is to provide the bad apples the opportunity to believe that they may actually be one of the good apples and not in fact the horrible disgusting rotten apple that they actually are.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630655#Comment_122630655

Just on the FBI stats , they aren't "Missing the big cities", they are missing data from all over the place. For various reasons , multiple police departments don't share proper information with the FBI.

For example only 8% of Police departments in Florida provided data in 2022, but that doesn't stop Ron DeSantis claiming to have reduced crime - He might have, but we have no way of knowing.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630575#Comment_122630575

Your post doesn't say anything about Biden, how would I know he was in the video? We don't need to watch the video to know what Trump said, it's all been widely reported and available in print.

What is the actual quote of what Biden said? You said "Biden said that bloodbath means violence on the streets"

I didn't find a quote of him saying anything similar to that online. I think if he said that I could find it online in print. And lo and behold: Biden is heard nowhere in the clip you are referring to, never mind saying any such thing.

So instead of sending me on a goose chase how about you admit it is a lie from you that "Biden said that bloodbath means violence on the streets?"

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629786#Comment_122629786

A very weird claim since they published well in advance what the areas the questions would cover well in advance, the order they would come in and so on. Its a bit like the leaving cert oral, you know the general question, just bring it around to the answer you want to give or be good enough you can answer the question asked.

I, a poster on an irish internet forum, knew the general format and question area before the debate, how did Trump not?

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630560#Comment_122630560

Fact check long ago, don't bother wasting your time engaging with them.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630250#Comment_122630250

It'd be difficult. Removing Robert E. Lee statues, not so much.

Remind me, what was Trump talking about when he called out to his 'second amendment people' to deal with Clinton's supreme court appointments?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630848#Comment_122630848

Thanks for sharing that:

For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump's characterization was wrong. 

No one is disputing what Trump literally said with the words from his mouth, but Trumpers seem to pretend like everyone doesn't know the context of what he was saying, given that there were no fine people, they were all nazis and white supremacists, so the only people who could be getting comforted by Trump there were, in fact, nazis and white supremacists.

But again, this is immaterial: the reason this is coming up at all again today is because of what Kamala said at the debate, and what she said didn't reference nazis or white supremacy and bluntly stated facts: there was a mob holding tiki torches, they were spewing antisemitic hate, and Trump said there were fine people there. None of that is up for dispute because it is all objectively true, even Snopes doesn't deny that those words came out of his McMuffin hole. There is also ample contemporaneous evidence to show that nazi and white supremacist and alt right groups took comfort from Trump's statements at Charlottesville, and knew what he meant, like everyone else did, and that's the entire underlying issue:

https://time.com/4902308/white-nationalists-supremacists-donald-trump-charlottesville/

On Monday, Trump condemned white supremacists and called racism “evil.” But that response — which came nearly 48 hours after the violence in Charlottesville — was dismissed by many white supremacists. “He sounded like a Sunday school teacher. I just don’t take him seriously,” white nationalist Richard Spencer told reporters on Monday, according to HuffPost. “It sounded so hollow and vapid.”

Spencer praised Trump’s comments on Tuesday. “Trump’s statement was fair and down to earth. #Charlottesville could have been peaceful, if police did its job,” Spencer said on Twitter, adding: “I’m proud of him for speaking the truth.”

Even non-redpilled Republicans knew what Trump was saying:

Trump’s remarks, meanwhile, quickly drew criticism from both Republicans and Democrats.

“We must be clear. White supremacy is repulsive,” Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan said on Twitter. “This bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. There can be no moral ambiguity.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-nationalist-calls-presidents-denouncement-of-hate-groups-kumbaya-nonsense_n_59923778e4b09096429961e8

 Nathan Damigo, a white supremacist and Marine veteran who was filmed punching a 95-pound female protester in Berkeley, California, earlier this year, also told HuffPost he was not too worried about Trump’s statement. Damigo was “disappointed” in Trump, but the president’s “statements were vague, they were ambiguous, and oftentimes people in his position will talk that way to skirt around difficult issues,” he said. “When Trump says that he denounces racism, that could mean many different things to different people.”

When HuffPost asked a third Spencer associate — who said he was 28 but wouldn’t give his real name, instead calling himself Marcus Aurelius — about Trump’s statement, he said, “Yeah, of course he’s going to do that.” The man added, “It’s the same platitudes over and over. You’ve heard it once, you’ve heard it a thousand times.”

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630848#Comment_122630848

From the link you posted:

For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump's characterization was wrong. 

Why would Trump lie about who was at the rally?

Because he wanted to be able to dog whistle to the racist scumbags at the rally that he was calling them fine people.
The racist scumbags were

From one lying racist scumbag to a mob of them.

And here's the proof - again from the link you posted:

the majority of far-right leaders and groups received the speech positively.

"Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa," Duke, a former KKK grand wizard, posted on X in response to Trump's comments.

So the racists heard Trump's dog whistle loud and clear.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630035#Comment_122630035

Again another debunk. With video. Arent facts fun

They are, it’s when facts are notably absent that there’s no fun in debunking complete nonsense. It’s actually painful:

https://youtu.be/HQcFlgxNcjk?si=K5MhlEl-OTTPUD2l

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630848#Comment_122630848

And that snopes article has an editor's note that's pretty relevant. They point to the fact that Trump was categorically wrong about fine people being at the rally. So either Trump was so uninformed that he didn't know it comprised solely of Neo Nazis and white supremacists or he simply knew that plenty of the crowd would conclude that they were in fact the "fine people" that Trump was referring to. So your two options are incredible uninformed or he absolutely knew how some people would read interpret it.

Anyway, hopefully @Redliketoast will be happy with that confirmation of there in fact being no fine people at the rally.

Editors' Note: Some readers have raised the objection that this fact check appears to assume Trump was correct in stating that there were "very fine people on both sides" of the Charlottesville incident. That is not the case. This fact check aimed to confirm what Trump actually said, not whether what he said was true or false. For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump's characterization was wrong.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630880#Comment_122630880

I think for Trump the people who came to protest the neo Nazis were the main focus of his wish to demonize .They were the ones he considers to be "enemies of the people" (or was it the journalists whom he categorized thus?)

He was caught in a bind because he knew the neo Nazis were roundly despised by society in general.

So rather than say "I hate them both"(he probably hadn't given too much attention to demonizing them and in fact might feel closer to them in truth)…so rather than try to demonize both groups he came out with "good people on both sides" when the last thing he really wanted to express was any sympathy for those protesting the neo Nazi march.

He had a bit of a brain fart because he couldn't express his real feelings and what he came out with was the closest he could express.

Lying is first nature to Trump but even for him it can be tricky sometimes formulating the lies satisfactorily

Cody montana

Fed rate cut!

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122631111#Comment_122631111

Ah there goes my robinhood

0.5% cut.