If you were in charge of the 13 Billion windfall for Ireland what would you use it for?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608349#Comment_122608349

The spend on almost everything should be stopped ( so no increase in current spend and a full stop on all capital projects until the costs are gone through with a fine tooth comb)

Well that's a phenomenal way to make us all poorer for decades to come. Thanks to decades of abject poverty as a nation we are dealing with a massive infrastructure deficit in ireland. We need to speed delivery up, not slow it down.

Paying off the debt will make zero practical difference and would be economic malpractice as things stand. Ranting about the government's inability to spend the money wisely loses its impact when you suggest instead something completely insensible.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608490#Comment_122608490

…some lads are hell bend on dooming the future of their own kids, grand kids, nieces and nephews!

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608490#Comment_122608490

How is it making us poorer we will have to pay less interest on a yearly basis and less capital debt. No increase in current spend until we get a watch dog to change the way we are spending its pushing up inflation 14 billion extra to spend will see prices rocket up. It will have the same effect of the first time buyers grant with housing which will make us all poorer.

Put it this way your saying keep going as is Ireland is supposedly flying if you looked at our GDP and our tax take and other metrics that show how the country is doing. This is not reflective for the vast majority of people living here. The current system is broken, people are taking the pish and this needs to be fixed before we up spending again.

As I say a watch dog in place with someone on the hook financially as in the politician/perma gov employee who signed off on a spend that is way over priced and did not bother tendering it out correctly and not just locally we need to start looking globally for people to come in here to work to bring costs down then this person would lose the same amount out of their pocket via their pension this would quickly see people who throw the tax payers cash around like confetti tow the line. By all means start upping our spend once this is sorted.

I agree we need more infrastructure, we need more for health, Education, Policing and other areas like special needs, etc. Every area needs it but the one group of people who are feeling it time and again and who are continuously ignored is the tax payer. This is a chance to give them some relief via the savings on interest it would be an recurring annual saving. So the 14 billion going off this would have am annual saving effect over a really long period of time.

What is the interest rate we are current paying and apply that to 14 billion that's the annual financial difference we would be making per year.

I cannot see how paying off debt, reducing interest annual payments and making people accountable for the tax payers spend makes us poorer.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607734#Comment_122607734

In the longer term maybe not inflationary, but putting that sort of money into hiring more construction workers (already scarcea) and buying up land and property, and also largely domestically produced inputs like cement is pretty well bound to be inflationary in the short-to-medium term.

Mefistofelino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608568#Comment_122608568

The national debt is now running over €230 billion. It currently costs around €3.3 billion to service that each year. On a pro-rata basis, reducing the debt by €13 billion will reduce the annual repayments by perhaps €200 - 250 million per year. Even if you decided to pay that saving to every taxpayer as a rebate, people will only be getting around €80 each.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605881#Comment_122605881

But I hear those things are awfully loud???

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608115#Comment_122608115

Yes, precisely because we have supply-side problems, pumping more money into demand will add to prices and costs.

Debates about the link between growth of the money supply and inflation are really about the effects of monerary growth on demand for goods and services. The Apple windfall if badly handled could lead into further excess demand problems in an economy already experiencing supply constraints in so many areas

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608635#Comment_122608635

…so maybe we shouldnt be implementing demand side policies such as first time buyers grants, and try implement supply side stimulation policies, in order to try increase are actual capacity to simply build more…..

…for example, maybe we could take a few quid, and expand our abilities to train more younger folks, in order to be able to build more….

…but dont worry, this isnt gonna happen!

FrancieBrady

Another question is: should distributing this money be in the gift of those who fought so hard for us not to get it?

Top it up with the 10million+ they wasted and allow somebody else to decide where it should go.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608884#Comment_122608884

Well, certainly I can agree on the first-time buyer grants. Great for some lucky individuals (grant recipients) but not so for everyone else.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608620#Comment_122608620

250 million a year for how many years wont be long till that builds up as I say until we can trust the pepole in power to spend tax payers money appropriately better 80 quid a year more in my pocket than putting it on a bonfire and pushing inflation up making it harder to live in the country

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609134#Comment_122609134

…and again, public debt is commonly rolled over for very long periods, commonly for multiple of decades, and in some cases for over a century, this is common practice, with little or no long term negative effects, paying off this debt is rather nonsensical, as nothing is truly shown for it, nothing is truly achieved, nothing is truly gained. as others have said, we re clearly in serious trouble regarding long term infrastructural needs, and if we dont do something about this immediately, we ll very quickly lose the major economic gains we have created over the last few decades, as we wont be able to compete with other countries that do have far superior infrastructure to ours…..

…i.e. if you wanna continue to screw over your kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews, by all means pay off some public debt, but if you wanna give them half a chance, start doing something with this money, and fast!

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609317#Comment_122609317

So what if its rolled over the interest still has to paid or is added to the debt. How the hell are we screwing over our kids by paying off debt that they never accumulated.. that makes zero sense as you pay your debt and the interest comes down it means more money in the public purse annually. We are in even bigger trouble with regards to our procurement system its not working and needs to be addressed and until it is we should not be allowing people who simply don't give a flying phuck about trying to keep costs down for the tax payer the power to spend more and more and more inflating everything else around them and screwing over our kids and grand kids. By all means once procurement is sorted I have no bother with spending on any area that needs addressed. If we pay it off our borrowings it cuts down the interest rates and if in the mean time we get procurement system sorted we can always borrow more and the ECB rates seem to be going down so it would save even more over the shorter term.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608568#Comment_122608568

The national debt is not one big loan, it is a series of bonds with different terms and interest rates, so it's not like you go into a bank and pay off a lump of it.

When the bonds are due for payment, they're either paid out of a current budget surplus, or another bond is taken to pay off the one that's due. In effect it's on the never never.

Government bonds are really just an exercise in parking money to guarantee a return in line with inflation, with the interest rate prevalent on the risk of default, as we discovered after the crash when we needed the IMF when no one would loan.

OT because funding is currently not the problem for any project suggested, it should be added to a wealth fund for when it is.

Or an escalator to the sky.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609378#Comment_122609378

Yeh I know that but there is always a portion ready to be paid every year or rolled over so this money could be used for this until its gone

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608062#Comment_122608062

Spending too much, badly. You could never spend enough on healthcare if it was directed correctly

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608107#Comment_122608107

IIn a dream World we could pump it into healthcare but nit the bloated behemoth we have now, no harm to dream I suppose

mehico

If it was a wishlist, the majority of it should be used to progress infrastructural projects in the West and North West of the country. Developing the regions should take some of the pressure off Dublin and East coast.

BailMeOut

put every penny into our sovereign wealth funds.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122608927#Comment_122608927

Yet another thread where the sole intent is to Government bash, firstly with a thinly veiled bash 'hardship fund' for those the Government failed, and now just a bash.

Find something to do.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609514#Comment_122609514

I'd call it open criticism of the government who, while having gotten some things right, like every other government under the sun, in the past and in the future got something terribly wrong.

beachhead

Money cannot be used for day to day spending says a lot.

455 million has already been returned to other EU countries,probably not the final amount. 10 mill+ spend on legal fees-helping to try keep money in Apple's coffers by our government.

The balance of any amount left will disappear into the black hole of civil service/politicians pension fund.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605904#Comment_122605904

That doesn't sound like a very economical order.

It would make more sense to reintroduce the wolves first and just have enough to do the depopulation themselves.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609534#Comment_122609534

Criticism isn't the objective of the thread, polite request give it a rest for this one.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609576#Comment_122609576

You gave your opinion as is your right.
The objective of the thread is not in your purview tbh.

celtic_oz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605990#Comment_122605990

The British just set set up GB Energy .. we should do the same

Irish state-owned energy companies could end up jointly investing in projects with GB Energy, a new British renewable energy company that is being set up with £8.3 billion (€9.8 billion) of UK taxpayer funding, according to Minister for Environment, Eamon Ryan.

Speaking in London on Wednesday after meeting Ed Miliband, Britain’s energy secretary, Mr Ryan confirmed the Republic “will be looking to co-operate” with GB Energy, which is being set up as part of a manifesto commitment by the new Labour government.

GB Energy, which will be headquartered in Aberdeen, will invest in clean energy projects such as offshore wind. Mr Ryan highlighted that ESB, for example, is already an investor in similar energy infrastructure in Britain.

“Collaboration is very common in this sector because the scale of the projects is so large. You don’t do it as a sole operator,” he said.

macraignil

I'd use 1 billion to set up a state insurance company to provide competition in the insurance industry to help prevent price gauging practices by the existing cartel in the market.

The remaining 12billion I'd put directly into making housing more affordable by removing VAT which is charged at 13.5% from all new housing units being sold to owner occupiers for less than a cut off point that in the current market looks to be around the 300,000euro mark. Housing units built for sale over this cut off point would get no VAT relief and purchases by any one other than those wanting to live at the address would also get no VAT relief. A 300,000euro house could be sold to an owner occupier for less than 265,000 and one that would have been sold for 250,000 would be reduced to just over 220,000.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610349#Comment_122610349

Houses sellers are under no obligation to pass on any cut in VAT.

The same applies to any seller and any VAT change.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610349#Comment_122610349

The solution to housing is categorically not to further juice the demand side of a supply problem.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607357#Comment_122607357

Right, google is your friend… many are of that mind.

Dublin airport hasn’t the capacity. I’ve worked there front line for long enough to know the logistics of the actual operation of an airport, this airport, and witnessed delay after delay due to these issues…

Airports by city….

London : 4

Paris : 3

Rome : 2

Glasgow : 2

Milan : 2

Madrid : 2

Barcelona : 2

Diluted networks ? Hardly, it’s necessary in other countries. DUB is pretty much at capacity or close to it in terms of movements…ohh and Ryanair its biggest operator are a point to point airline.

Some info for you to ponder

https://www.thejournal.ie/iaa-seat-capacity-limit-summer-2025-dublin-airport-6486486-Sep2024/#:~:text=The%20proposal%20would%20make%20next,a%20seat%20cap%20is%20implemented.&text=THE%20IRISH%20AVIATION%20(IAA)%20has,the%20Summer%202025%20scheduling%20season.

IAA looking for limits, not increases 👌

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610739#Comment_122610739

Cool. Name them. I'm not here to do your goggling for you.

All of those cities are larger than Dublin btw. In several cases massively so.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610745#Comment_122610745

and I’m here for a discussion not to do your educating or googling for you, Tommy Broughan was certainly one who was on record as calling for it…

Those cities might be larger than Dublin but look at passanger numbers / growth in and at Dublin, airport and people living in its catchment area…. My post above stands my friend. :)

Podge_irl

Tommy Broughan isn't even a sitting TD. There is zero impetus, never mind consensus, for the idea among politicians and planners.

Dublin has about 20 million passengers to add before a second airport makes sense.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610756#Comment_122610756

he was a sitting TD when he made that statement.

Dublin airport cap is expected to be exceeded this year. That’s according to the DAA….the managers / operators of the airport.

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/2024/09/04/daa-warns-that-dublin-airport-32-million-passenger-cap-will-be-exceeded-in-2024#:~:text=Exceeded%20In%202024-,daa%20Warns%20That%20Dublin%20Airport%2032%20Million,Will%20Be%20Exceeded%20In%202024&text=A%20total%20of%203.8%20million,for%20international%20travel%20this%20summer.

Podge_irl

The cap is an entirely artifical construct and has nothing to do with the airports ability to manage larger passenger numbers.

I won't drag this off topic anymore. But the money categorically should not - and thankfully will not - be used on another airport.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610728#Comment_122610728

I would have thought by not applying the VAT to units under a particular sale price the scheme would have been a relief to the purchaser rather than "juice" to the demand side of the problem. If any "juice" is being provided is it not to the builder to encourage them to provide more supply?

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122610700#Comment_122610700

They would need to charge VAT on units they sell to non owner occupiers under the scheme so any efforts not to pass on the VAT saving would be very clear to consumers and I'd hope damaging to the reputation of builders who want to subvert the scheme for boosting their profits without helping the poorly supplied consumer.

LastApacheInjun

Certainly, a portion of it needs to go into housing. Build five satellite towns - one outside Cork, one outside Galway, three outside Dublin. That should supply approximately 100,000 units.

Budget for schools, direct rail links, and public amenities like libraries and sports centres, as well as the actual housing. Set up a government run building firm to build 20% of the houses and the amenities, and tender for the rest of the work from private building companies. 20% social housing, 40% affordable housing, 40% market value housing.

Private building firms that win the tender get compensated for the shortfall between the market value and the affordable housing value (capped at the time of the tender), and further tax breaks. But get nothing for the social housing because they have to do that now anyway.

The government run building firm will hire construction workers on ten year contracts, with more favourable pension arrangements then they currently get under the Construction Workers Pension Scheme. This is where we should be looking for migrants. 10 years in the country, paying your taxes, learning the language and literally building the country (as many Irish did abroad for years) and you get your Irish passport.

I actually know nothing at all about this - and I imagine this is riddled with obstacles and obvious problems. But something like this - a bit of ambition from the government - should be encouraged. They have money, and an all pervading problem, and the old ways of doing things are not working.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611642#Comment_122611642

Isn't Cherrywood an example of this?

LastApacheInjun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611652#Comment_122611652

Exactly right, and Cherrywood is what I had in mind when thinking about this (though they better put on more Luas to meet demand).

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122611656#Comment_122611656

They have plans within the M50 for areas such as the Dublin Industrial Estate, Dunsink, Ballymount, Poolbeg etc.

standardg60

Half a billion towards the redevelopment of Casement Park in time for the Euros would seem a no brainer.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122609535#Comment_122609535

There is no public service pension fund.

talla10

This is an opportunity to build possibly 2 overdue state projects and put the rest (probably 3 billion) against our national debt. First project I would build the much talked about super prison. I know Thornton Hall is now to house IPA applicants but that can be easily resolved.

FrancieBrady

The Tanaiste has spoken.

He stated today that the money would be used to underpin housing policy.

cr-07

They should give it to RTE, I heard they're stuck for a few bob.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629354#Comment_122629354

Probably as good a way of getting rid of it as anything else. How many flipflops?

con___manx1

Put ever penny into the health system

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630159#Comment_122630159

Actually, no.

The problem with health is that it is a demand lead service where there is no limit to the demand.

The more service that is available, the more will be demanded. Take for example of scans, or tests. If they can be done easily, and at no cost to the patient, then they will be preformed even if they would be of little benefit. A test could be performed to eliminate an unlikely condition and would be unlikely to be performed if the patient were to have to pay for it.

Then there are the patients that will not allow themselves to be discharged despite the medical treatment having finished. More funding removes the incentive to free up scarce bed space.

Better to build the Metrolink, the M20, plus a few Luas lines. Perhaps even a few homes for the homeless. If there is any left, use it to speed up the judicial system so justice is dispensed in a timely matter.

We have a country with the infrastructure that is inadequate for a population of 3 million, but we have a population of 5.5 million so our infrastructure is unbearably inadequate.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122607304#Comment_122607304

There was also about €400m taken off of it to pay tax due in other EU countries. Apple then wrote this tax off against their Irish tax bill.