Hezbollah pager explosions

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635553#Comment_122635553

And there's a difference between an Arab prisoner in Israel and other prisoners. And you know that very well too.

Palestinians in the WB are held under Military Law.

There are numerous examples of spurious detentions, rapes, beatings and deaths whilst in IDF "detention".

It is fair to call those in detention "hostages".

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635360#Comment_122635360

Note that Ukraine have killed very, very few Russian civilians since February 2022. This is not an accident ; they want to be seen as a civilised and stable democracy which has major respect for human life.

Israel (and their vast legions of supporters) appear to have no such qualms. It is quite unusual to see a state in 2024 which doesn't seem to care a jot about its international reputation or if it is perceived as a criminal or terrorist state (all in the name of 'self defence' of course).

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635520#Comment_122635520

Yes, civilian casualties are in the single digit range.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634089#Comment_122634089

Why doesn't Ireland?

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635581#Comment_122635581

(Maybe I am too pessimistic…) but I think they can invade large parts of it in South, mostly to destroy and kill (after air bombardment similar to Gaza), and then the army can pack up and withdraw again + leave a horrific mess behind, and noone will stop them.

Ultimately there has been a bit of a shift going on in what is "acceptable (well, largely consequence free) behaviour" now as the the "international order" comes to an end, and we enter a period of increased violence and chaos.

Iscreamkone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635697#Comment_122635697

Ireland is a pity on the international stage. Too cheap to pay for a proper military. And at the same time expecting neighbours to do the heavy lifting to ensure our freedoms. Embarrassing.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635669#Comment_122635669

Is that just something made up in your own head because you believe what you want to believe? Or are you parroting something you read on twitter?

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635581#Comment_122635581

I don't think any major escalation will come from Lebanon, why would they when most of the world can see Israel are just totally desperate now to bring the US into a regional conflict. Far better just to observe them falling into the abyss on their own accord.

freebritney

Israel in it's current form will not make it to the 100th anniversery of its creation. The worst fears of the original zionists have become a reality, they foresaw this happening. They wanted to intigrate with the natives and co exist with them but the political zionists took over the movement and basically it just became another European colonial endeavour backed by the Rothchildsit's which viewed the natives as savages and sub human.

Israel is a virus in the region now and will never stop being attacked by the natives. It will become increasingly right wing, violent and unhinged as the country starts to unravel and unravel it will. The orthodox community is breeding like rabbits and they refuse to fight or work, they make up nearly 14% of the population at this stage. The native muslims population is growing also despite the best efforts of Israel and the European settlers are the same as white westerner's everywhere in that they're not having large families. It's a numbers game really.

The final nail in it's coffin is the death of MSM which has been able to hide what's been happening for the last 75 years, Robert Fisk and a few brave journalists not included. Social media and the mobile phone have allowed people to see how the sausage is made and their is no going back now. All those protests in American school's weren't in back water state or community colleges but the Ivy league schools. These are the future CEO's and senior leaders in the State Department and they won't forget what they've seen.

I don't know what form of country it will be but a country that celebrates the mass murder of so many children openly, that makes TV stars out of soliders who admit raping and sodomizing prisoners and who's senior politicians publicly call for the starvation of 2 million people won't be tolerated by humanity much longer.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635724#Comment_122635724

I don't know the numbers, but I heard several doctors interviewed about casualties being brought in, and they said it was pretty much all men, and mostly young at that. They were saying how sad it was to see such terrible injuries in so many young men - I don't think they realised what else they were saying at the same time.

They also didn't say that any of their staff had been affected.

All the evidence points to Hezbollah having been successfully targeted. If any pagers had actually belonged to civilians, you may be sure Hezbollah would not be admitting to this being such a blow against them as they have done. They'd be playing up the alleged randomness of the attack.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635553#Comment_122635553

Disgusting post.

If someone said that it was great to see Hamas defending themselves on Oct 7th they would be rightly castigated and they'd be banned from this forum. You need to think before you post such language.

freebritney

The 3 types of Israeli defenders on boards:

1. Eastern Europeans, who ironically are the reason the Jews had to relocate to the Middle East as they tried to kill them all in pogroms for hundreds of years.
2. Fellow "settlers" who look on with envy and can only dream of being able to drop 2000lb bombs on the Divis Flats to get one of those pesky fenians
3. The good old Hasbara bot's

Uncivil - poster warned and 1 day forum ban applied

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635843#Comment_122635843

young men = Hezbollah/Hamas/delete-as-necessary? Would "young men" include the 10 year old girl who was killed?

In reality, what demographic would you expect to be carrying devices which are needed to be on call to respond to an emergency? Firefighters, ambulance drivers etc?

Their Minister for Health, a qualified surgeon, has stated there were many civilians. Facts won't matter though to many on here. Another poor brown person needlessly killed or maimed. Wave it off.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635943#Comment_122635943

I'm only repeating what doctors who were interviewed said. Listen to the Radio 4 "PM" program for yesterday, there were at least two doctors interviewed who said something to that effect on it. One was specifically asked whether the casualties coming in were all young men, and the reply was that they were.

I believe the girl who was killed, the one who was the daughter of a Hezbollah militant, was in the western Bekaa valley, so wouldn't have been in Beirut, and this was in one of the main Beirut hospitals.

I suppose you can convince yourself that outside of Beirut, anyone and everyone was targeted. If you're really determined to.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635658#Comment_122635658

Do you actually know the number of Russian civilian casualties or are you taking Ukrainian reassurances on that as gospel?

Secondly: if you think the rage against Israel is because they are needlessly killing civilians out of carelessness or even deliberately, how to explain the utter fury about this latest operation in Lebanon which was brilliantly targeted at Hezbollah militants, with very few civilian casualties?

If anything, the usual "Oh it's only because Israel is killing civilians" posters are even more incandescent about this. Presumably because their fig leaf has disappeared on this one.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635943#Comment_122635943

In reality, what demographic would you expect to be carrying devices which are needed to be on call to respond to an emergency? Firefighters, ambulance drivers etc?

Not all the pagers exploded, just the ones that were bought by Hezbollah. The ones used by doctors and paramedics did not explode - unless they were doctors and paramedics that were Hezbollah members. So yes, young men with balls or face blown = Hezbollah member.

brickster69

UNSC meets again @ 8pm to discuss the weeks events in Lebanon. I wonder if a vote takes place, you never know they might get found guilty this time.

Iscreamkone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635916#Comment_122635916

As I don’t qualify for group 1 or 2, I must be a bot x

brickster69

US was not involved in carrying out the Lebanon attacks according to the State department

https://twitter.com/DropSiteNews/status/1836929263469043881

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636091#Comment_122636091

I've been told the same, despite the fact that I'll guarantee I've spent a LOT more time in the Rossville St flats where my granny lived than the poster concerned ever did in Divis Street. Mainly because I'd be surprised if he'd ever set foot in there. In fact I'd put money down that he's one of those free-staters who would never have gone near Northern Ireland until he was completely sure there was no possible risk of seeing a paramilitary or a soldier.

Now that it's completely safe to do so, they're all armchair IRA supporters. They weren't even that, back in the day.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635843#Comment_122635843

The bit you are making up - and it is actually betraying your own mentality - is equating "young men" = "Hezbollah".

In your mind, they are all guilty by default of being a "terrorist" by virtue of their nationality/religion/language/race.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636183#Comment_122636183

Nope. Because what a coincidence it would be if Israel managed to target pagers owned only by random young men. Or maybe you think the shops in Lebanon are single sex only??

And why have Hezbollah members admitted that they have been successfully targeted? You think they're into exaggerating their losses?

Everyone with any wit knows that Israel somehow intercepted or sold a batch of pagers ordered by Hezbollah for their members. That's not in question, except for a few western straw graspers such as yourself.

Just one such example of the funerals of those young men being reported as funerals of Hezbollah members. They're getting the full "martyr" honours and presumably 72 virgins await them.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/watch-live-hezbollah-holds-funeral-130613167.html

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636091#Comment_122636091

There is a 4th catagory which covers horrible human beings, psychopaths and sadists or as they're also known, the IDF.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636198#Comment_122636198

It was pointed out to you already. Pagers are used in professions and roles where people are on call and standby to respond. For example, firefighters or ambulance drivers or medical personnel. Perhaps your 90 year old granny is a fireman, but it would generally be a young mans game.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636231#Comment_122636231

Indeed, they could have been civilian firemen and doctors, and yet they weren't, as the link I gave above shows, and as Hezbollah has acknowledged. They're all getting Hezbollah funerals too.

There may even have been some Hezbollah medics - but not the doctors in the main hospitals. At this point, it's like the Iranian ambassador: the question is not why was an individual targeted by Israel, but why was that person involved with Hezbollah. Because that is who was targeted.

That's because Israel successfully targeted the terrorists in this operation. If your objections to Israel's actions were really about avoidable civilian deaths, this is exactly the sort of operation you'd approve of. Instead, it seems like you're even more angry than when there is far more collateral damage. Why is that?

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636261#Comment_122636261

It was a very clever operation and in the main seems to have avoided mass civilian casulties unlike the devestation being wrought in Gaza. As an aside, if Hezbollah or Hamas mails 5000 letter bombs to IDF soliders homes and a couple of their kids and wives get blown up by mistake, would you accept that?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636261#Comment_122636261

You are simply veering towards the "military aged males" rhetoric we see with populist anti-immigrants. Different situation but same broad idea.

Such booby trapping is not allowed under international law. Not that the Zionists have any respect for that with it is not to their advantage. The fact that X people of whatever category you want were killed does not change that. A nuclear bomb on Kiev would surely kill some neo-Nazis, as would one on Dublin. That doesn't make the act morally, or legally, acceptable. Any more than bombing a market and killing 80 innocent civilians and kids was ok because "ah shure there were some Hamas lads nearby …. probably … we think "

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636276#Comment_122636276

The IDF are not a terrorist force though, are they? Hezbollah, as a Lebanese parliamentarian pointed out yesterday, do not take into account the wishes of the Lebanese parliament, much less the Lebanese people, when deciding whether or not to go to war, despite the fact that the Lebanese economy and the lives of Lebanese people will be destroyed by them.

The IDF, whatever about possible war crimes and other excesses which TBC I deplore and wish to see punished, do not decide to go to war based on their own views. They are told what to do by an elected parliament.

You don't seem to understand the legal difference, but I assure you, it exists.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636277#Comment_122636277

No I'm not, that's just your straw man. Discuss what I say, not what you wish I'd said.

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636291#Comment_122636291

Okay, if Russia carries out the exact same operation tomorrow in Ukraine, is it okay?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636303#Comment_122636303

Are the Ukrainian army now a paramilitary force that has escaped all control by the Zelensky government? When did that happen?

volchitsa

It's bleakly amusing how, after October 7th, there was a sort of consensus among the Israel haters that one couldn't hold Hamas to the same measures of behaviour as the IDF because they were a bunch of terrorists, despite being the elected government of Gaza, and now we have some of the same posters - or with the same opinions anyway - insisting that Hezbollah are a regular army and as such their members are entitled to the same legal protections as a regular army.

Also, that Israel was bad because allegedly they had the capacities for targeted attacks on Hamas instead of invading Gaza. And yet…

It's almost as though…. I don't know… it seems like they'll always support anyone who's against Israel no matter what twists and turns of logic that requires. I wonder why.

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636308#Comment_122636308

It's becoming difficult to keep up with the moving goalposts here but we'll try. If MI5 had mailed 5000 letter bombs to the homes of Sinn Fein, IRA, UDA and UVF members and blown up and maimed the wives and children of those indivduals would that be okay?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636291#Comment_122636291

To the parents and guardians of the 20K children that the IDF dropped 2,000 pound bombs on the IDF are certainly a terrorist force. To the relatives of the innocent nuns, doctors, ambulance drivers and patients, press and UNWRA workers murdered the IDF are certainly a terrorist force. There are little or no differences between Hamas and the IDF except the for the weapons used.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636326#Comment_122636326

You'll be able to find those quotes then. The use of civilian infrastructure in an indescriminate attack is against international law and more closely resembles terrorism than warfare.

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636326#Comment_122636326

Can you name a successful colonisation in history that has succeeded without the eradication of the native population? The British empire, despite being responsible for half the problems in the world today, including the one we're discussing, collapsed because they generally didn't eradicate the whole native population. As long as you leave a majority of the native population in place they will resist and are legally entitled to do so and in time will outbreed the invasive species.

The successful colonisations such as America, Canada and Australia succeeded because they wiped out enough of the native population to no longer pose them a threat. So Israel has 2 options….

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636333#Comment_122636333

LOL for the moving goalposts; you're the one bringing in different comparisons and I'm shooting them down with the same logic every single time.

At long last you seem to be getting the idea though. Sinn Fein: not illegal, so no.

UDA: was not illegal for most of the troubles, but you probably don't know enough about NI to know that.

But since you've at last managed to understand the difference between paramiliataries and armies, I'll answer that: if the IRA or the UVF had been firing thousands rockets from Northern Ireland into Monaghan for the last 11 months, forcing its evacuation, then I'd have no problem with that at all.

Similarly, if large parts of western England and/or Scotland were forced to evacuate (less likely TBH) then again, I'd completely understand that action.

But since the IRA never did anything like that, then no. I would however have understood if the Irish government had taken active measures against loyalist paramilitaries after the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, but they, like you no doubt if you were around then, were far too strong supporters of the British government at the time to do anything of the sort.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636326#Comment_122636326

Isn't is also mad that, in the year following 9/11, news reports used to include details about then ongoing events in Afghanistan and Iraq, rather than just covering what happened on that one day over and over again.

It's almost like you can't just choose the news from one specific day to be repeated ad nauseam and all other news ignored just because it suits your own agenda.

Glad you find it "amusing" though. Bleakly or not.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636374#Comment_122636374

That 's not a reply to my point, but ok.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636365#Comment_122636365

The communication equipment used by Hezbollah is not civilian infrastructure. The reason they had their own pagers and radios was that they didn't want to use any civilian infrastructure.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636358#Comment_122636358

I mean these are hardly the actions of the "most moral army in the world". The IDF's actions in their treatment of Palestinians alive, wounded or dead, speaks volumes.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-20/ty-article/.premium/idf-investigating-after-soldiers-filmed-throwing-palestinian-bodies-off-west-bank-roof/00000192-0e55-d1bc-a1ff-2e5fe73a0000

mulbot

Hopefully if something does kick off those that surround Israel give it the the mother of all beatings and drive them back to the mountains from where they came

SchrodingersCat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634024#Comment_122634024

Ive wondered if Israel could have taken down a plane with these pagers.

According to Reuters, a source said that PETN explosives were in the batteries in the pagers. Ive seen this speculated to be three grams to several grams. PETN was a favorite of Al-Qaeda for their attempts on aircraft.

In 2001, al-Qaeda member Richard Reid, the "Shoe Bomber", used PETN in the sole of his shoe in his unsuccessful attempt to blow up American Airlines Flight 63 from Paris to Miami.

In 2009, PETN was found in the underwear of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the "Underwear bomber". He had attempted to blow up Northwest Airlines Flight 253 while approaching Detroit from Amsterdam.

Some sources say that as little as 6 grams can blow open the side of a plane. But others have said that 80 grams isnt enough.

So its inconclusive if one could take down a plane. What would have an impact is if there were multiple people with these pagers on the plane going off simultaneously. Then there is a much higher chance of a very serious accident.

It was pretty reckless to have that many bombs moving around in public not knowing where they would blow up.

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636372#Comment_122636372

I included the UDA in the example at the time they were illegal, does that make it okay? I didn't ask about lobbing rockets or making parts of England unsafe, I simply asked could any other country in the world do what Israel did and not have it described as reckless.

Yes or No please.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635669#Comment_122635669

source? I'd like to see the data.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636308#Comment_122636308

Well actually, that was basically what the Russians accused the Azov brigade of being.

facehugger99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636326#Comment_122636326

Th only thing we can be really sure of is that there not anti-Semitic. I mean they've constantly said that so it has to be some other reason.

Like they just really, really hate Jews, - I mean Israel.

They really hate Israel - it must be that.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636386#Comment_122636386

"IDF investigating" = "preparing medals and promotions for those involved"

freebritney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636464#Comment_122636464

Would you describe Israel as a peace loving state? I've seen enough video's of children and people blown to pieces in the last 11 months to say Israel is a violent blood thirsty state.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636482#Comment_122636482

That's only because you are antisemitic freebritney. If you weren't, you'd have seen those videos as the brave elimination of definite future terrorists, or even better be able to watch and immediately forget them and be convincingly adamant/deluded they never existed. I think that's the way it works these days.