Amazon WFH Policy

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646947#Comment_122646947

Only the FANNG+ are paying that much money. And only if you are exceptional or lucky. There are many US MNCs (and others) paying approx 100k for software engineers with decades of experience.

Edit ... time for me to look for a new job ...🙄

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646947#Comment_122646947

There maybe some on this money at these levels but it’s not the norm from my experience. The MNCs certainly pay well but grad developers on 40 - 50k would be more standard and people with experience in managerial roles probably in the 100 - 150k bracket including shares which are often a significant part of a pay packet as you move up the ranks.

When you move down from the mega corporations the pay in smaller MNCs can be very middle of the road also and bettered in smaller Irish firms.

In many cases its other less top level roles that really pay well in MNCs, people in maintenance technician roles, calibration etc can be on 100k plus with shift allowances etc are taken into account for what are often sitting around waiting for something to happen type jobs.

Infoseeker1975

I have worked from home long before Covid; lots of people thought I was mad then the views changed when they tried it themselves. The reverse scenario here will make some people think outside the hamster wheel again. Obviously your finances determine a lot of your life choices, personally I can easily survive on what I am earning, I could earn significantly more though it would result in a lot of changes, I choose not to. If asked to work in the office, then I would do it though I would look at alternatives & move on when I find something.

digiman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646974#Comment_122646974

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647032#Comment_122647032

Yes, it is the FANNG companies that I'm referring to as per my original post, it's probably being lost though as the thread grows :) :

Digiman: "I don’t think the job market for folks in Amazon is all that great, sure you might get easily a job elsewhere but you will probably be taking at least a 50% pay cut unless you can land a job in the other large US companies like Google, Meta, Microsoft etc. and these companies have had a lot of layoffs in the last 18months and are not hiring that much at the moment."

Dohnjoe

A couple of comments in this thread about people slacking off at home.

Not many comments about slacking off in office. I've seen plenty of 2 hour lunches, strangely long disappearances, 1 hour group desk conversations, long breaks

Deub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646212#Comment_122646212

I am sorry but I don’t believe you. For the same job, MNC don’t pay their employees twice the average market salary.

digiman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647183#Comment_122647183

I’m talking about the FANNG companies here specifically and that is the reality. I’m not sure about other MNCs, for example I know the pharma companies don’t pay all that differently for similar type of roles compared to Irish companies.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646659#Comment_122646659

Very few people actually have Hybrid or Remote days etc defined in their employment contracts, even those that have gotten employment contracts in the past 4 years.

At best if such a clause exists, so to does the 'depending on business requirements' or similar to that.

A lot of companies are bringing people back in for various reasons. As others have said not every person is the same. For every one person who does a diligent job remotely there's probably another doing SFA or as I stated earlier is in a role that's probably fluffy as **** anyway.

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636872#Comment_122636872

No mention of the treatment of the employee who got 500k, so I can only assume this is not an issue for you, as long as you get your money!

You mention MNC, my whole posts (past and present) are about US MNC (Just to be clear):

To your so Called 'Best Working Conditions', bearing in mind that they work you to the bone, so any financial gains, you are working for it, I personally do not consider that a benefit (you earn it!)

1. Subsidised restaurant-quality food in the canteen. Maybe a fiver for what you'd spend €15 on in a restaurant.

In my place alot of ppl brought in their own food as the food in canteen was not up to much, bland at best..

1. Flexi-time - come and go as I please so long as the work gets done and I attend meetings (in person or online)

I didnt have that, would be role dependent, Irish companies offer that as well

1. Generous holidays

Agree, but would need them with the daily pressure

1. Generous bonuses and things like One4All vouchers

I get that in the small Irish company I work for now

1. Clothes and other swag (it's branded with company logo, but it's still quality stuff)

I have alot of that at home that never gets worn :)

1. International travel to conferences and trade shows

Would be a nightmare for me, prefer to travel for pleasure than business

1. Bring your child to work and other CSR events which are well appreciated.

Thats a stretch!

EDIT:

8. double matched pension

Agree

9. Salary sacrifice share scheme.

Not sure what his is

digiman

At the end of the day it’s all trade-offs, the FANNGs that are paying a lot more are expecting a lot more impact from their employees compared to what is expected from other companies. And with that comes a lot more pressure to perform because if you don’t perform you don’t get paid the bigger bonus which can be significant % of total pay or it can mean your pushed out the door.

I’m at stage now where I will do it for another couple of years I think and then will try to get something a lot easier with a much improved work life balance. And I’ll be ok to take a 50% pay cut for that when that time comes either by my own decision or being kicked out.

There is no free lunch in any of it, it’s all earned and if you don’t earn it then you will be looking for another job pretty quickly.

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648331#Comment_122648331

I personally dont get why ppl would work so hard for x number of years just to earn alot of money, why not get a stable decent paying job and live all your life rather than giving x number of years to a company..TBH the years you give away would generally be your best years i.e. younger years!

Also the stress / pressure you get - f**k that, thats not a life..

My humble opinion

digiman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648407#Comment_122648407

Everyone’s different, I really enjoy the work overall and don’t mind the stress too much. Sure there are times when I think what am I doing this for, but I like nice things and nobody is going to just hand them to me so if I can do a job I enjoy 90% of the time and get well paid for it then it’s a no brainer.

Blazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647409#Comment_122647409

you have that onsite as well.

I'm fully remote but some of my team do hybrid. We all work hard regardless of where we are but I do go onsite one day a week or fortnight when I have bandwidth.

Because when I go onsite all I'm doing is going into a meeting booth for my calls and replicating my home environment ( have a dedicated office). In fact I actually do less as I tend to catch up with people who have nothing to do with my role but I know from my time in the company. And I see this a lot onsite. People taking long lunches, coffee breaks to "catch up" etc etc.

A lot of senior mangers are pushing this on-site nonsense to justify their jobs too…most of them are in ERGs and dicking around for the day and using that to show how busy they are when in reality at least 20% of their time is taken up by non-role related events.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648407#Comment_122648407

i dont get why someone will settle for a stable job and not maximise their earnings, everyone is different. But a bit like digiman i like enjoy my work. if i didnt id move.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646812#Comment_122646812

weak managers?

this whole thread is people complaining that the management havent a clue, yet the people they manage have all the answers?

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646947#Comment_122646947

Where on earth are you pulling those figures from?! 2007? Grads do not get €100k with no experience.

Morgan McKinley IT Salary Survey (for Ireland) for 2024 https://www.morganmckinley.com/ie/salary-guide/technology/permanent-salaries

Not 1 of the roles under the 0-3 years experience is getting that & the ones that are near are manager level. Which you're not going to get straight out of college. There are €100k plus roles in the 5+ years experience category though.

I also know from my brother who is high up in IT in a non-software American MNC & there would be no way he'd hire someone on a salary like that & if anyone came in with expectations that high, he'd laugh at them.

RedXIV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648407#Comment_122648407

Ah it was worth it to build up the house deposit initially, and acknowledging the fact these places work you to the bone, there's no denying you usually get very good experience from them which only helps getting future jobs. I had a miserable 3 years working for a silicon valley company (well first 2 years were more "manic" than "miserable") but while I definitely felt my work life balance suffer, there's no doubt that the additions to my CV have only made it that much easier in future job hunts. But it's done now, house is bought, I have the experience, time to dial it back a bit

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648658#Comment_122648658

I dont know where this myth came from that 21 year olds are walking out of college into 150k tech jobs.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648450#Comment_122648450

You do, agreed - there's plenty of slacking off everywhere by various people, I suppose it can be managed better (but often isn't) while in the office, or "offences" aren't as blatent (doing household chores, pickups or perhaps doing a completely different piece of work) if you are in the office.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648739#Comment_122648739

how did 100k become 150k?

Im sure there are people going into sales roles at least with OTE near that.

Sono

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648481#Comment_122648481

I am not in any way saying I have all the answers, I can only speak from my own experiences of wfh.

I totally get that the manager has difficulties with staff not performing at home, my argument is the people who are causing problems by not pulling their weight at home, are the exact ones who didn't pull their weight in the office. I see no difference in it and I could have predicted the ones who would take the piss at home as they are the same in person.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646661#Comment_122646661

Just for clarity on promotions in the civil service, (and some parts of the wider public service). You apply for promotion based on grade (with the exception of TLAC positions). This can either be through an open competition or an interdepartmental one.

Once you succeed at the competition stage, you are placed on a panel in order of merit for the next available vacancy at the new higher grade.

Until a vacancy comes up and an offer is made, you have literally no idea where you could be working. The role offered could mean an extended commute, or extra office days, (or even no WFH), less flexibility etc. The offer could be for a vacancy in any Gov department.

So, literally no one cares if, at that stage, someone considers the offer, decides it doesn't suit them and turns it down. Nor will it be "frowned upon". The vacancy will just get offered to the next person on the panel.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648778#Comment_122648778

Ultimately poor staff are poor staff, at home or in the office, you can be more proactive about dealing with them in person as often it can be out of sight out of mind. But the end outcome will probably be the same, its just more likely they can cruise along under the radar at home in certain scenarios.

Sono

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648791#Comment_122648791

I would agree with you there, out of sight, out of mind kinda thing.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648450#Comment_122648450

Yeah I'm exactly the same. Work from home 99% of the time - my team is global and my line manager is in the UK. I've worked for 3 companies in the past 2 years and all were WFH roles with similar setup. All were MNC but not FAANG.

Current job is making noises about a RTO policy, but, like it is in Amazon, I suspect this is accelerating natural attrition and avoiding paying for layoffs as opposed to an actual interest in RTO. I've been to the office a few times and it's usually spent at least 30% of the time meeting people in person that I work with, coffee etc. The remainder of the day is commuting, and spent in a meeting room which may as well be my home office. I have a deal in my head with myself that whenever I go to the office on a specific day, I leave the house when I would normally start work at home (so the commute is coming from work time) and I leave on time… no late calls or work. At home I could do 10+ hours a day but it's much less than that in the office.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648791#Comment_122648791

I think it’s actually easier for people to slack off in the office rather than at home if I’m honest - it is probably dependant on company and type of work but in my experience (including myself) I feel the need to be more responsive and get more done when at home whereas when onsite if you aren’t responding or at your desk you could be in a meeting, in any numbers of areas of the production or R&D facility when you could just as easily be chatting or in the coffee shop.

Also and I’m sure it’s the case for lots of people my direct manager is not even in our time zone never mind onsite so while your presence onsite may be noticed by other senior management or higher on any given day they have no care nor idea on your actual work or whereabouts throughout the day. I also do no more checking on staff that report to me when we are in the office or either I or they are remote on any given day. If the work is being done that’s the metric that I care about and most others aside from the company overloads who are obsessed with presentisim with no clue about the day to day dynamics of teams (and how well they are working with the current mix).

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648473#Comment_122648473

Cause not everyone is motivated by money, personally it surprises me what ppl will do and put up with for money!

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648877#Comment_122648877

and not every one is happy just to have an easy life, personally it surprises me how many people are happy just to coast along.

boardsdotie44

Their are a whole lot of very weak poor managers, they do have the majority!

I would agree weak insecure managers, who lack trust and cant inspire employess are generally the ones who would agree with employees coming back to office

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648870#Comment_122648870

might be in your particular set of circumstances i still think as a general rule its easier slack off when WFH.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648891#Comment_122648891

In large companies though it’s not the managers asking employees to return to the office- it’s the senior executives . Even managers are quite happy in the main to work from home especially if they have young families which many do- it suits them just as well as it does non managers . When the execs start talking about coming back to the office that’s where you need to decide if that company is for you

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648885#Comment_122648885

Why do you see having an easy life as coasting along? When you say 'easy life' you are just meaning less pressure / stress.. Whats wrong with an easy life lol who wants a hard life? strange

Some people have alot of interests outside of work, and would prefer to spend more time and energy on them..

For those who dont have many interests outside of work, I pity them.. not a fullfilling life, when they come to retire they wont know what to do with themselves…

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648918#Comment_122648918

OK well replace managers with execs then

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648941#Comment_122648941

Not fulfilling your potential professionally.

I enjoy work, i always have, and i have loads of interests outside of it, not least my family. We are in the position now that we can afford for my wife not to work so our kids have one of us with them all the time which for me is something worth working for.

No need to pity me at all, all is great!

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648986#Comment_122648986

Again personally whats more fulfilling to me are interests / hobbies, travelling etc, not work :)

One thing that always sticks in my mind, you often read, hear from old people, or people with a serious illness etc the 1 thing they always say is they regret spending so much effort on work.. they wish they had the 'easy life', money aint everything, money doesnt make you happy and all that bla bla..

I wasnt pitying you personally it was a general statement!

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649010#Comment_122649010

only thats not entirely accurate, you need a certain amount of money to have a nice life (your definition of a nice life is personal to you), id agree that the amounts over and above that just allow you to indulge in more expensive hobbies or holidays and doesnt make as much of a difference but you need that base amount first.

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649030#Comment_122649030

Well your kinds contradicting yourself now

To quote my original post - I said "why not get a stable decent paying job and live all your life"

to which you replied "i dont get why someone will settle for a stable job and not maximise their earnings"

So basically maximising your earning is  "just allow you to indulge in more expensive hobbies or holidays and doesnt make as much of a difference but you need that base amount first."

So which is it :)

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649060#Comment_122649060

That doesn't mean i wont maximise my earning potential, it means i have enough perspective to know that money isnt the source of happiness. I get that this is the internet and someone needs to see themselves as the victor of each and every interaction…. :)

and it is you are or you're not your ;)

HurlingBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648295#Comment_122648295

There is doubt that you work hard for your salary\benefits in the US MNCs and are very much a hamster on a wheel for them. These companies have very aggressive review systems and you are expected to work outside regular hours where necessary. While the rewards are good this is at a price i.e less family time, less time for other activities, poorer work\life balance. They do keep employees motivated with career paths, goals and proper management engagement. Poor managers won't last long in these companies. No coasting is tolerated in these companies and they will manage you out if you are not performing. The question for each individual is whether the extra 10-15k or whatever it might be is worth it if you have a young family and want to spend more time not working. A 39 week would be a rarity in these companies.

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649355#Comment_122649355

Wow relax there, Im only quoting what was said.. how you put it didnt make sense to me! Ya cant have one thing and the other, either you maximise your earnings in a US MNC, and sacrifice your life OR you get a decent paying stable job and enjoy life.. if you want to maximise you earnings - go for it, not for me tho… I chose life :)

And I have no idea what that means - and it is you are or you're not your ;:?

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649395#Comment_122649395

To be fair their are occassions where you are treated very badly as well, the guy awared the 500k as an example.. Obviously their was a period of time before he got that 500K award and no doubt that was very stressful.. also think of the other ppl who had accepted the email, and all the extra work they are expected now..

Countless other stories from my time working in them.

I just personally think, that the 10 - 15k (or whatever it is) just is not worth it, the extra hours, the extra pressure, stress etc..

Thats my opinion, from experience, no need for anyone to get their knickers in a twist if they dont agree :)

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649650#Comment_122649650

relax? chill with the passive aggression, i was just responding to you and i disagree with you. You can maximise you earning potential and your professional care while still understanding that money alone won't make you happy. I choose life too.

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649775#Comment_122649775

What are you on with the passive agressive? its a discussion forum, if you aint prepared to discuss and make your point clearly then maybe you shouldn't be here.

You started it with "I get that this is the internet and someone needs to see themselves as the victor of each and every interaction…. :))

Ive had enough talking to you now, waste of time.

reactadabtc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646974#Comment_122646974

I'm 6 years in on 70K as an engineer WFH for an irish company. The FAANG money inrigues me, but I don't have the interest into going throiugh the interview process and working a hard job. My current job is chill, I'll probably get a few promotions over the next 5 years and be on 6 figures then. i'm happy with an easy life.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649799#Comment_122649799

Well what with you being such an experienced poster on here you clearly know it all… wonder who you were before the last banning? I cant be held responsible for your lack of comprehension now can I?

Best of luck now ;)

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649804#Comment_122649804

Thats the way to do it

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649827#Comment_122649827

Everyone's situation is different. I prefer to work 50 hours a week for high pay and retire at 55 rather than work 40 hours a week for low pay and retire at 67.

Durnan

Amazon bringing its employees back to the office got me thinking about remote work / work from home more generally. Is it possible to work remotely for an Irish company, or a European company, from another country outside of Europe? Legally, I mean, without all the hassle of the company having to agree to set up a subsidiary company in the country you want to work from (I think that's how it works)? I read threads on Reddit from time to time in which people talk about how they work for an American company from somewhere like Mexico or Colombia, but 99% of them, if not all of them, live in the country illegally (well, maybe not illegally, but on a tourist visa that they haven't renewed) and pretend to be in the US, or wherever it is their company is and just hope not to get caught. The tech savy ones go to extraordinary lengths not to get caught and do all kinds of things with VPNs and modems. But it must be awful to be constantly on edge and worried about getting caught. And I don't know what they do about paying tax. It seems to me that it's almost impossible to work remotely from a country outside of Europe unless you work as a freelancer. Even digital nomad visas are complicated. Companies insist that you work to Irish time, they often have meetings in the morning that you'd have to be getting up at 3 in the morning where you are to be able to attend, and then there's the problem that they'd probably want to pay you less if you're living in a country with a low cost of living. So I suppose the only way to do it is to do what the guys on Reddit do or, as I say, to work as a freelancer. I don't know how those fellas on Reddit are ever going to settle, however, if they're constantly going from country to country on tourist visas.

boardsdotie44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122650051#Comment_122650051

Tis, just make sure you don’t miss out on life a bit, you never know you might not make it to 55!

Nobody knows the future, you need to live now!

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122650369#Comment_122650369

I've no problem living life now, plenty of money to travel and make the most of my free time. Plenty of money to make day to day worries go away and reduce stress on myself and my family.

Ibe very unlucky to only make it to 55, but if I popped my clogs at 70 then I'd have 15 years of retirement under me instead of just 3.