Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951142#Comment_122951142

I not taking personal offense. Just saying I find it distasteful to refer to fellow human in such a manner.

It's probably how the Brits referred to the attacking Zulus, spears versus guns. Not my style.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951160#Comment_122951160

How would you like to refer to sending hundreds of men to attack fortified positions without the right support?

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951124#Comment_122951124

The problem with it is that there no better way describe the primary Russian tactic.

Their belief in their own superiority myth is so strong that they've been repeating the same tactic for years and getting the same result.

Bitcoin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950344#Comment_122950344

It's been crumbling for about 6-7 weeks now, hasn't it? 😂

The ruzzians have probably lost thousands of men to try take this city. It's going to come as a devasting blow to many after the orcs collapse and the Ukrainians stroll in uncontested one day.

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951160#Comment_122951160

Te term has been used in thread quite a bit. Mixes together Meat Grinder and Human Wave Tactics quite nicely. Both terms are used frequently in military history, including texts on the Eastern Front/Great Patriotic War.

20silkcut

As Stalin said “ quantity is a quality of its own” . The Soviet losses on the eastern front in World war 2 were horrific yet it was victorious . The Russian military today is still utilizing those same tactics. It was presumed before this war started that the Russians would swiftly advance through Ukraine with their incredible number of tank battalions. Like blitzkrieg or desert storm. No right minded country would start a war with the intention of using infantry wave tactics as their primary doctrine. And Russia didn’t either. The javelin and drones put paid to their tank strategy in the early days of this war. They have been out of ideas since. Most countries would be at the negotiating table long ago if they were in the position the Russian army finds itself.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950344#Comment_122950344

Very concerning. Perhaps Russia should negotiate for peace to avoid further deaths of their soldiers and possible escalation and red lines.

Are we still on track for the October 1st recapture in Kursk at least?

brickster69

Elizavetivka, Romanivka, Vesely Gay and Gannivka left it far too late.

This morning Ukraine have also removed the commander of the Donetsk group General Lutsenko due to the failure in the Pokrovsk and Kurakhove directions.

AndyBoBandy

Russia is this morning targeting the entire energy infrastructure of Ukraine with a huge missile attack.

Happy Christmas

Absolute fcuking scumbags.

Do the vatniks here really believe all will be fine once Ukraine surrenders? Do they really believe the slaughter will be stopped (or simply no longer reported).

Russia (and anyone who supports/trumpets them) are absolute Scum.

wassie

Speech yesterday by NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte at the Concert Noble, Brussels

I’ll be honest: the security situation does not look good.
It’s undoubtedly the worst in my lifetime.
And I suspect in yours too.

From Brussels, it takes one day to drive to Ukraine.
One day -
That’s how close the Russian bombs are falling.
It’s how close the Iranian drones are flying.
And not very much further, the North Korean soldiers are fighting.
Every day, this war causes more devastation and death.
Every week, there are over 10.000 killed or wounded on all sides in Ukraine.
Over 1 million casualties since February 2022.Putin is trying to wipe Ukraine off the map. 
He is trying to fundamentally change the security architecture that has kept Europe safe for decades. 
And he is trying to crush our freedom and way of life. 

His pattern of aggression is not new.
But for too long, we did not act.
Georgia in 2008. 
Crimea in 2014. 
And many did not want to believe he would launch all-out war on Ukraine in February 2022.

How many more wake-up calls do we need?

We should be profoundly concerned. 
I know I am. 

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951160#Comment_122951160

This is what you find distasteful and prompts you to post? With added nonsense about 'the Brits'?

Not the actual act of Putin sending massive numbers of poorly trained and ill equipped and supported soldiers from Russia and the "annexed regions" (remember the ones Putin promised to protect) to their deaths in WW1 type assaults?

Yet you seem more bothered about the language posters here use to refer to that than Russia's actual illegal invasion, the rape and atrocities conducted by those war criminals in the course of that war, execution of civilians like Bucha.

Says it all.

Will you response feature any actual condemnation of Russia for this illegal invasion and the loss of life it has caused?
Any actual acceptance that Russia has committed atrocities and is responsible for such wasteful loss of life?
Or can we expect evasions? Tactics such as playing the victim? Whataboutery?
Because based on the content of your posting history here, that's all we are likely to get.

You will notice at all times I have addressed myself to the content of the your posts, and how you have engaged (or not) with replies to your posts.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951160#Comment_122951160

It would be more akin to using derogatory terms to an invading force so more similar to the Zulu's referring to the British or how the allies referred to the Nazis. Your style is too espouse propaganda based on your history to date btw.

j62

Ah ratting out your fellows

A fine Russian tradition

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951124#Comment_122951124

The Russian soldiers themselves refer to themselves as meat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001v5cn

Treated by their own worse than animals

https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-soldiers-punished-refusing-fight-ukraine/32505035.html

@engineerws you want to deny these facts widely reported in media with X flooded with videos of Russians abusing their own soldiers when not busy running into bullets, drones and mines to try to capture a field of mud

You think we should self censor and not discuss the casual Russian barbarity, cruelty and plain evil not just towards Ukrainians whom they often just execute (war crime) but their own soldiers

There is something fundamentally broken at the core of the Russian “society” where they film and release themselves abusing their own comrades

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951138#Comment_122951138

I have read the definition, I have read the contributions you have made. I have concluded you match the description perfectly.

Report me please.

Mike3549

Todays attack

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1867490343295340916?t=zg3KrnskxjHXTyiEKgyn8A&s=19

j62

Long range missiles attacks working, glide bomb attacks cut in half

https://bsky.app/profile/kevinrothrock.me/post/3ld5y3uo7ks2g

Kermit.de.frog

Of the four provinces targeted by Russia the Russian military occupies the bulk of the territory in each with zero prospect of being pushed back.

This takes us to what are the realistic terms Ukraine might achieve in negotiations next year? It's pretty clear to me they are going to lose around 20% of territory. I don't see that being reversed.

Setting that aside I think we are really going to see discussion on the defence of the remaining territory. This is highly unlikely to include NATO membership in my opinion but could include some sort of collective guarantee from all sides on Ukrainian security. How that's structured, packaged and sold remains to be seen.

My prediction is the loss of four oblasts with security guarantees for Ukraine's remaining territory shy of NATO membership.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951744#Comment_122951744

could include some sort of collective guarantee from all sides

Except of course anything Russia says, or agree's, or promises, or guarantee's is absolutely worthless.

the loss of four oblasts with security guarantees for Ukraine's remaining territory shy of NATO membership.

So essentially Russia gets rewarded for it's illegal invasion…. which means they know the West is spineless (well, they knew already), and they go again, but next time it'll be The Baltics, members of NATO..

The Suwalki gap isn't that big and they should easily take it with only losing about 300,000 men - worth it.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951744#Comment_122951744

There is considerable prospect of them being pushed back. As with any war of this nature both sides have the challenge of out lasting their opponent. If the Russian Federation are pushed to point of being unable to maintain their invasion, their gains could be reversed with whatever speed the terrain would allow the UAF.

The Russians are pushing everything they have into infantry meat-wave attacks. If those front-line forces were to ever fail, they likely have little-to-nothing behind them to check a UAF counter-attack. It's a matter of outlasting the Russians and exhasuting their ability to actually wage war, and as time passes the UAF are edging closer to NATO-standard equipment, training and a supply chain linked with the rest of Europe. Russia have to scrap what they can from legacy Soviet stockpiles, support from fellow pariah states and they have now resorted to the only "Nuclear" option they actually have access to: Conscripting Moscovites.

Everything in this is a matter of time. Ukraine face these challenges too, but they at least have Western Europe supporting them. They are not alone. Russia cannot maintain their current facade of normal operations forever and there will be a tipping point where they'll even lose the ability to deliver consripts to the front line (not to mention the ability to collect, feed and arm them). It is only a matter of when. It could be soon, or it could be years down the road.

Regardless of this, the Donbas will be a Phyrric prize for whichever side maintains control over it. It'll be as hostile to civilian settlement as parts of Laos continue to be decades after the Vietnam War bombings. At best, it can function as a bufferzone while it takes decades to de-mine the whole area. It may not see people living there for at least a generation, all thanks to Vladamir Putin.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951771#Comment_122951771

I wish the reality was different but the fact is there is no prospect of Russia relinquishing held territory.

Could Ukraine hold out on keeping Kherson east of the Dnipro? Possibly, it's not under Russian control. Could Ukraine hold out on remaining land in other Oblasts? Possibly.

I suspect Russia is going to insist on the integrity of the provinces as a point of a negotiated settlement, something Ukraine will be obviously challenging.

I don't think the real meat on the bones is going to be territory. I think it's going to revolve around security for Ukraine and what that will look like.

We'll have to wait and see.

It's disappointing the fighting continues for now despite the fact the scope for the negotiations is pretty much known and has been for months. The death and destruction now has no benefit to anyone.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950053#Comment_122950053

What an overly simplistic, myopic description of international diplomatic affairs. The fact remains that NATO is almost exclusively designed to be a defensive organisation, borne out of the threat posed by Soviet absorption of satellite nations and crushing of democratic institutions right on Western borders. The fact remains that Ukraine, as a sovereign, functioning democratic nation had every right to discuss its future relations with whatever institutions it wished. The fact remains that the lack of meaningful defence in the opening 24 hours of Russia's invasions proved that Ukraine posed no military threat to Russia. The fact remains that the Ukrainian population have remained steadfast in their resistance to Russia's invasion and destruction of their country.

If NATO is the issue here, why has Russia not invaded Finland and Sweden? The reason? The NATO Threat excuse is a complete red herring used by Putin to justify indulging his expansionist fantasies.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950200#Comment_122950200

Absolute classic victim blaming. It is no different that blaming the family of a rape victim for encouraging her to wear a skirt and socialise with her college peers. Using your analogy she should have been driven to and from the front gate, not allowed to wear anything other than baggy clothes, and forbidden from socialising at night. Yes, you would have faux concern for her plight, but you would frame it in the context of the failings of her parents. The elephant in the room? The rapist.

It's actually shocking that nowhere in your posts is there any acknowledgment of the criminal actions of Russia. On the contrary, your line of argument implies that Russia's actions were so predictable as to be considered expected of any major power in its position and therefore de facto excused.

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951832#Comment_122951832

It’s a good thing that the Russians didn’t give up when Hitler was on the Volga, up surrounding St Petersburg , down caucuses and knocking on gates of Moscow

And they had allies that’s sent em aid

The same Hitler Russians signed an alliance with and split Poland in half

Tho in this case it’s more like Hitler was incompetent and got stuck 30 miles inside the border three years after his June 41 invasion

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951557#Comment_122951557

Again, targeting energy infrastructure which civilians rely on and where there is no closely associated military target is a war crime. Yet it's now being reported as just another day in Ukraine. It should be shouted from the rooftops. Putin is gambling on the success of the Trump tactics - incur so many raps on your sheet that in the end people just stop paying attention to the details and forget half of them.

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122950053#Comment_122950053

Is this the same NATO van which Putin this week was begging help him evacuate his troops from Syria?

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951160#Comment_122951160

yet again

This is what Russians themselves call their own tactics

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/10/28/its-a-meat-grinder-fighting-rages-in-eastern-ukraine-as-russian-forces-eye-bakhmut-a79225

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-soldier-describes-moscows-use-meat-assault-tactic-1839375

https://news.yahoo.com/news/russian-military-planner-says-doesnt-104723046.html

Perhaps try shooting in back own soldiers who let the world know about the Russian military tactics?

yagan

The best hope for a Russian conscript is to taken alive by Ukraine, but even then there's the risk that you'll be sent back in a prisoner exchange and find yourself back to square one with a gun at your back as you head off in a new meat wave.

Meat Wave is depressingly accurate because there's no better way to describe Putin's inhumanity.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951402#Comment_122951402

you omitted in which year!!

zv2

@Kermit.de.frog "I wish the reality was different but the fact is there is no prospect of Russia relinquishing held territory."

It is not necessary to physically drive the Russians out. If their economy goes down the drain these destroyed lands will only be a liability for them and they can be sanctioned until they leave. Russia is facing into a catastrophe. Not least because their country is physically falling apart. As for exploiting the zinc reserves - let's see how that goes…

Baba Yaga

why would any Ukrainian even entertain the thought of negotiating peace while even one of putins soldiers is on Ukrainian land?when the subject of peace talks comes up again putin needs to be told to piss off back behind Ukraine's original border then we can talk…

AndyBoBandy

It looks like whoever was in charge of the interior re-design of this Russian school, with the brief of paying homage to the Russian Armed Forces is about to have an accident out of a tall building!!!

j62

Well looks like Syrians either asked for Assad’s head and/or the billions he stole or something else not palatable to Russians

Reports of Russians packing up shop

https://bsky.app/profile/tendar.bsky.social/post/3ld6rbprgrk2s

https://bsky.app/profile/michaelkofman.bsky.social/post/3ld6qp7udk22v

brickster69

Belarus to receive Oreshnik missiles from next year and be able to choose targets themselves. Also they will be stationed in the far east putting most of the US in range

SoapMcTavish

….

TheValeyard

Reading this ....

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1867571927419699432

Once they have the AA on the plane for transport, Ukraine has the chance to do something hilarious.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122952549#Comment_122952549

And? Do you have a point or did you just come here to post anything that you find online which could be in any way read as bad news for the West? Not sure what this has to do with the Russia's 3-day SMO n Ukraine

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951832#Comment_122951832

re ‘ ——- integrity of the provinces——-‘. Would that be the case for Ukraine being given the Province of ALLOF Kursk. After all , fair is fair!

junkyarddog

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1867578190505406830

Well this is a total surprise,Not!🙄

I'm sure the Tankies will be excited.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951640#Comment_122951640

Another night, another war crime by the terrorist state. How do you negotiate with people who murder civilians on a daily basis?

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122952996#Comment_122952996

Wait until the BRICS representative realises that there’s a bit of Russia to the west of Belarus called Kaliningrad which already has missiles on it

ilkhanid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122952761#Comment_122952761

is there an emoji for "snort"? There should be.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122953088#Comment_122953088

And it's been SURROUNDED by NATO for the past 25 years.

ilkhanid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122953050#Comment_122953050

Careful now. Somebody might take exception to "tankie".

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122953218#Comment_122953218

Them comrades in Orwell road bunker must be laughing their holes off at how easy it is to influence the woke westerners

The oreshnics can chalk that one up as a victory so

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122952101#Comment_122952101

But not going to happen is it? Ukraine is very likely going to be giving up territory for "peace" in 2025, how can it be otherwise when the next American president is now condemning the use of American weapons on Russian territory and being rewarded with praise by the Putin regime. Trump gives zero f*KS about Ukraine and without American support there is big trouble ahead

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122953258#Comment_122953258

To paraphrase Uncle Monty, Trump is 'so mauve, we don't know what he's planning.'

Trump is a liar. He has lied his ass off so hard and so much over the election cycle that it's impossible to make sense out of his motivations outside of making himself richer and more unaccountable. He will probably IMO just follow the path of least resistance that benefits himself the most. If he's smart he will guarantee Ukraine joins NATO and secures a cut of the mineral and oil rights in the 4 occupied regions for himself. The only problem is that Trump isn't in any way smart, is very easily manipulated and does not give one iota of a **** for Ukraine.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122953258#Comment_122953258

On the other hand as the world's largest weapons exporter you wouldn't want to inspire current European customers to invest in their own arms industries to counter inconsistent US support.

Trump is a slow learner, when he "gets it", or understands the complexity of NATO interdependence he'll lose interest and go back to bombing unisex toilets.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122951744#Comment_122951744

Fear not, because it only seems like they won't be pushed back because Ukraine isn't trying to retake it just yet.

This is a war of attrition, by my estimation we are entering the fourth of five odd years of this war. Eventually the Russians will run out of steam, their lines will break and they will not just be pushed back but will also retreat.

At that point in time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will retake the remainder of the four oblasts which are currently partially occupied and the fifth oblast which is temporarily occupied.

I would be more concerned about Kursk. The Ukrainians have occupied part of Kursk and there is zero prospect of them being pushed back. It is unfortunate that Russia will have to cede some territory in 2026, but I guess that is the price they will have to pay.

They may as well give up it now, because we all know that China are more than happy to fight to the last Russian, and so a peace agreement where Russia only loses a small amount of territory is the best outcome.

I say this as a concerned Russophile but I have nothing against the good people of Ukraine etc.

Markcheese

The Donbass is a prick of a place to fight through , coming or going. there is thousands of Kms of defensive lines , and more minefield than a Cambodian walk in the park , I can't see it being an easy ,the lines just folded type of thing,just trying to take Donetsk city by force would be a nightmare -

Different story if the trains stop running,

I wouldn't worry about kursk ,in a full collapse the Ukrainians would probably pick the best defensive lines in the area , and tell Russia go jump , but that could be a long way off - or not ala Syria ..