Israel are going to start WWIII

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122667580#Comment_122667580

Didn't the British fight a brief war with Jewish settlers at the time? Can't remember now what documentary I learned that from.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669707#Comment_122669707

It's was not a war it was a campaign of terrorist attacks. It was one of the most dishonest things they did given that they had a very good idea that Balfore declaration was coming.

TheValeyard

Im getting confused here.

Are we using this thread or the other one for the Israeli invasion of Lebanon

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122665788#Comment_122665788

Israel is the Palestinian problem and it will continue to be as long as it's allowed to rob Palestinian land.

igCorcaigh

Lebanese army withdrawing in advance of the Israeli incursion.

I didn't think that's how armies work, but there are lots of things that I don't understand about Lebanon.

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669783#Comment_122669783

Israel will be the Palestinian and Middle East problem for as long as it exists.

tom1ie

How will Israel’s invasion of Lebanon affect the Irish peacekeepers?

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669819#Comment_122669819

Lebanese army doesn't get involved with Israel and isn't equipped to fight Israel. It typically withdraws when fighting occurs between Hezbollah and Israel. It would really only be forced to consider fighting if Israel invaded way beyond the border area into Lebanon "proper".

There is not exactly great love for Hezbollah in Lebanon either. Hezbollah and Lebanese army are seperate groups and the latter wants to stay out of it in a military sense.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Hezbollah politically in Lebanon given the way things have played out. I don't think Hamas thought their attack would be so successful, and draw such a devastating response/fail to play out how they thought it would internationally, and I don't think Hezbollah banked on Israel going this far or being dealt such a crippling one-sided blow either.

Then you have Iran, now creating distance after seeing Hezbollah basically decapitated with relative ease, who also lost a huge gamble by underestimating how far Israel would go and is now left in a very weak position itself and quietly, likely terrified.

Israel now holds the cards, not sure how Iran will respond or react but really not sure what options they have.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669902#Comment_122669902

The hamas plan would appear to have been to place Isreal as a paria state in the eyes of the world - to which it would appear to have been a resounding success.

Israel is a praria state and will never regain it's status in the eyes of the world.

The question has always been - do you die slowly from a thousand cuts or do you make your death have purpose.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669902#Comment_122669902

Hamas plan worked even better than they ever hoped?

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669934#Comment_122669934

Their Oct 7th plan did.

What's happening now - Hamas crippled, Hezbollah crippled, Iran left in an almost powerless position, failures from countries that matter to take any action or a hard line on Israel, not so much.

I'm not saying Israel is coming well out of this, but Hamas would've been hoping for far more instability and unrest rather than Israel steamrolling over both them and Hezbollah and furthering its undisputed dominance of the wider region.

ZeroThreat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669956#Comment_122669956

I'm surprised Israel haven't simply decided to annex the southern chunk of Lebanon and add it to their territory.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669819#Comment_122669819

Lebanon are controlled and dominated by Hezbollah, under threat, the non shia Lebanese hate Hezbollah to a degree that no one in Israel does but have to go along with the behemoth in their midst.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669915#Comment_122669915

Better to be hated and alive than loved and dead.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670000#Comment_122670000

I doubt this Danzy; I know Hez have a political wing and have positions in government, but I think that the political system there prevents any particular faction from controlling or dominating, which can lead to political deadlock, not very unlike the current system in NI.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669960#Comment_122669960

They will, just like Turkey setup a “buffer” zone within the Syrian border. Chances of either of them getting these back will be slim.

NIMAN

Israel seem to have everyone on the run, and i think they are seeing an opportunity to advance their position in the region.

They have inflicted huge damage on Hamas, same to Hezbollah and they probably wont face much resistance in the next invasion. And I think Iran would be afraid to take them on.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670102#Comment_122670102

They are not necessarily mutually exclusive but the system there is designed for effective grid lock.

Hezbollah have blocked steps towards a functioning govt because they want to be the functioning govt.

Danzy

If makes sense to make south Lebanon a buffer zone.

igCorcaigh

Strikes on Beirut live on AJ.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669737#Comment_122669737

Same! These threads could do with a bit of tidying up/consolidation.

igCorcaigh

Incredible footage. Beirut looks like a huge city, I had always wanted to visit it. 😓

https://twitter.com/JoudSally/status/1840866588645327266

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670165#Comment_122670165

Israel is a terrorist state taking on fellow terrorists. As a terrorist state, it's not remotely afraid to fight dirty or kill thousands of civilians to achieve its aims - that partly explains its successes in the last fortnight.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670564#Comment_122670564

I said that earlier but another poster said Israel isn’t a terrorist state , but BN ‘s government are . I don’t know . Is BN’s government much different than previous ones ?

Kermit.de.frog

Can anyone identify what this weapon is (it's in multiple pictures), assuming it is a weapon? Maybe it's just flares and camera exposure tricks, hard to tell.

.Donegal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670658#Comment_122670658

White phosphorus?

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669960#Comment_122669960

They tried that and had to withdraw.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670674#Comment_122670674

Breaking international law again.

paddyisreal

Its only a matter of time before Israel provoke Iran into a fight. Israel know they are close to nuclear arming and it's a game changer and they cant allow this to happen. I actually think this is the plan all along and the states is backing them privately on it also..

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670722#Comment_122670722

White Phos. Used like this is not against international war. Every army in combat uses it.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670731#Comment_122670731

Iran started that on Oct 7th and 8th when it's proxies attacked Israel after years of peace, it then had proxies from Iraq and Yemen join in.

Iran is much more of a global threat than Putin, their close ally is.

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670741#Comment_122670741

I would say Israel are as much of a global threat as Iran are. Do you think Russia, china will sit back and watch Israel backed by the states in a fight with Iran.... No chance. This could get out of control very quick

Kermit.de.frog

The economic consequences for Israel of it's current actions are beginning to mount

https://www.firstpost.com/world/downgrade-and-debt-israels-economy-isnt-as-resilient-in-war-as-it-once-was-13820494.html

A downgrade with deep implications

Moody’s downgrade of Israel’s credit rating marks one of the sharpest financial setbacks in nearly three decades. Unlike past military conflicts, where the country’s economic resilience was evident, this time the signals are more concerning. According to The Jerusalem Post emphasised that this two-notch downgrade is not a routine financial fluctuation but a severe indication of deeper systemic issues. The agency’s analysis makes it clear that there is growing concern over Israel’s ability to recover swiftly, especially given the prolonged nature of the current military conflict and the lack of a clear exit strategy.

While Israel’s credit rating remained stable even during the Second Intifada, the current downgrade reflects a more significant problem: a perception of ineffective governance. Moody’s analysis points out that beyond the immediate costs of the war, Israel is suffering from institutional weakness, with an inability to address political instability and the growing tensions related to military service exemptions for the ultra-Orthodox population. This failure to implement meaningful reforms has diminished international confidence in the government’s capacity to manage not only military challenges but also its fiscal responsibilities.

Rising cost of borrowing

The immediate consequence of Moody’s downgrade is a rise in borrowing costs, which threatens to strain an already overburdened national budget.

Even if Israel "wins" it will be a broken country afterward.

Ironically for all the Palestinian supporters of a socialist bent it might be capitalism that is more likely to take down Israel than any terror group.

The world's largest ratings agency not only cut Israel's credit worthiness by two notches but has kept it on negative watch and warned that it will cut the country to junk if this continues. Then they are in to possible IMF assistance territory.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670784#Comment_122670784

Russia has never hinted at backing Iran in a fight against Israel.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670804#Comment_122670804

The rating agencies and IMF will then be accused of 'anti-semitism' by Israel and the cult

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670733#Comment_122670733

Using white phosphorus against a civilian population is a human rights violation;

White phosphorus is a chemical substance dispersed in artillery shells, bombs, and rockets that ignites when exposed to oxygen. Its 

incendiary effects

 inflict death or cruel injuries that result in lifelong suffering. It can set homes, agricultural areas, and other civilian objects on fire. Under

international humanitarian law

, the use of airburst white phosphorus is unlawfully indiscriminate in populated areas and otherwise does not meet the legal requirement to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/06/05/lebanon-israels-white-phosphorous-use-risks-civilian-harm

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670980#Comment_122670980

Doesn't it prove the conspiracy theorists wrong though (i.e the Jews controlling everything)?. Clearly it doesn't apply to Moody's. That's far more ruthless than Moody's handled us in the financial crisis.

Moody's is not only citing the wars btw - it's basic financial credibility as well. They believe Israel is in serious trouble regardless.

And they are acting on that. And Israeli politicians are crying about it (much like ours did), they can't do anything about it except get their affairs in order.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670998#Comment_122670998

Israel has a serious and growing problem with their ultra-orthadox. They outbreed every other demographic and are basically economically unproductive relying on government supports. Its been a serious and growing issue and is destabalizing the country. The whole national service issue is just the most obvious symptom.

Shoog

Isreal has mirror image issue with Netanyahue as America has with Trump, they will basically do anything to stay out of prison, up to an including destroying their own countries.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670998#Comment_122670998

As you say, conspiracy theories and reality are rarely the same

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671008#Comment_122671008

They've also been undergoing their own financial crises. Before the protests against Bibis judicial "reforms" started, there were huge protests about the cost of living.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-cost-of-living-the-highest-among-oecd-countries-in-2022-data-shows/

The finance minister is so right wing that he refused to even meet with Bibi to discuss the cost of living, unless it was tied to action in Gaza.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/smotrich-said-refusing-to-meet-pm-on-cost-of-living-crisis-in-bid-to-pressure-him-on-major-rafah-op/

I honestly believe a large part of this crises is Bibi trying to stay in power. He's doing whatever he can to shore up support from right wingers so he doesn't have to lose power and face trial.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671071#Comment_122671071

These are the actions that turn politicians into war criminals.

Only with USA supports can they survive as a country. The weakening of support across nearly all demograhics in America has got to be a real concern for Israel. They have been panicking hugely about boycott and divestment and the fate of South Africa can not have escaped them. The attack line of calling all Boycotts and Divestmet antisemitic holds very little resonance anymore.

Can Israel survive in its current form ?

Danzy

Response to shoog random posting about white phosphorus.

What relevance has that to this photo or where Israel are now going in to in southern Lebanon.

Using it in such locations is acceptable and normal practice. In such a place it would have likely been used to provide smoke cover for troops. It really won't top artillery shells for taking out enemy soldiers, and it isnt at the races at all compared to an air strike.

Using it in South Beirut would be wrong, morally and militarily, it's just not that effective anymore

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671332#Comment_122671332

Israel has repeatedly used white phosphorus on civilian polulations and this is why it was highlighted by the human rights organisation I linked to. In this context and in the context of their use in any built up area they are a war crime.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671593#Comment_122671593

In this context it is not, there is no benefit to using white phosphorus on built up areas.

Hezbollah's friends and partners in war in the Russian army only use it sporadically in built up areas. Because it doesn't make much sense using it given everything else and they aren't concerned at all about civilians or rules of war.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671643#Comment_122671643

Isreal has used it before and are likely to do so again- hence the concern expressed by international human rights bodies.

Maybe the reason they use it has nothing to do with it's military effectiveness.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671658#Comment_122671658

Bar smoke screens or burning scrub on a mountain, it isn't really much use for anything.

No one who was trying to kill civilians or intimidate them would reach for it.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671681#Comment_122671681

its very effecive at killing and mutilating civilians

Brussels Sprout

When I watch Youtube videos on my TV I often like to read the comments on whatever video I am watching, regardless of the topic. Something that I have noticed is the blatant spamming of the comments sections of international media Youtube videos on any stories related to Israel.

You can see this for yourself. Pick any Channel 4, BBC or CNN piece and you will see literally hundreds (in some cases thousands) of vociferously pro-Israel comments. Often the tone is one of mockery of the media association whose video they are commenting under. For example when the Hezbollah leader was killed the other day I saw variations of "Commiserations on the loss of your colleague BBC/CNN/C4" type messages. If the video is showing the suffering of any civilians as a result of IDF attacks then the comments will blame them for being associated with HAMAS/Hezbollah/Houthis etc.

Right now here are the top comments under a BBC story about israel's ground invasion of Lebanon

Tony EH

You're reading the comments of morons. Why bother?

It's like reading the comments under YouTube videos.