Thinking of a career move into secondary teaching.

KeithKelly1992

I’m 32 so would be a bit older transferring over. I regret not going into teaching from the beginning.

If I did the 2 year HDIP when I graduated in 2013 I would’ve started in 2015 and I’d have 9 years’ experience on the payment scale, ie, I’d be on €56,153. This however is with only 22 hours teaching per week with 18 weeks of A/L per year.

In my current role (metrology specialist) I earn €55,000 plus 12% pension from the company plus a 10% yearly bonus which I can optionally take as shares (and only pay prsi, usc).

If I do the HDIP now, it’ll be 2 years. It takes 27 years to reach the top of the payscale which will bring me to 61/62 years old with €81,000 (which is index linked) so will potentially be €100,000 by then, which is guaranteed with no increase in responsibility.

I will retire on half that salary plus SPC giving a nice earner.

Even if I don’t get CID, you’re guaranteed CID pay after 2 years subbing anyway regardless of contact hours. Then there’s grinds money too.

My degree is Science with a focus mainly on physics.

Am I missing anything or am I looking through rose tinted glasses?

spurious

You're presuming full hours or a full contract very early on. Have you checked out ads for Science/Physics teachers?

You're also presuming you will stick at it. Have you any teaching or subbing experience? Experience dealing with teenagers who don't want to do what you are asking them to do?

Are you qualified to teach Maths? That might help.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122668526#Comment_122668526

Two years of my degree are heavily maths based but ultimately it’s up to the TC if they accept.

Geuze

PS salaries are not index-linked.

PS do not get a pension of half their salary PLUS the State Pension.

dory

Go for it if you think it's what you would like to do, but I would strongly recommend getting some experience before making the leap. And look into the pension situation. You certainly don't retire on half your final salary anymore.

Oscar_Madison

you so t retire on 1/2 salary- it will take you 2 years to become a teacher - assuming you get fulltime work by the time your 66 you’ll only have 30/80ths - so 37,5% of your salary not 50-%

Pension: 1/80th of Final Pensionable Salary for each year of Pensionable Service (maximum 40/80ths).

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058371349/thinking-of-a-career-move-into-secondary-teaching

No way are you going to be retiring on 50K. More like 20K if you're lucky. You're not guaranteed CID subbing. In fact you're guaranteed nothing subbing. Regrding grinds? Vast majority don't go near grinds for very good reason.

Happyhouse22

I had a glance at this post earlier and have to admit my first thought was this guy sure is focused on the financial benefits of teaching and not on the actual job itself. 

In retrospective  that is unfair, I have no inclination as to your aptitude or internet in teaching and have no reason to believe you haven’t sorted this part of it already in your head and want to focus on the very important financial aspect.

Unfortunately many of your assumptions are just wrong. Some are just minor, teaching salaries and not index linking, but do tend to rise broadly in line with inflation for example.However some things yiu are very wrong about. If you work for 27 years and reach the top of the scale you would be entitled to a pension much much less than 50% of your final salary. Also this amount includes the Old age pension and is not in addition to it. 

Teaching pensions are now calculated using a career average formula instead of being based on final pension, in real terms this means most pensions will be much lower especially for those with less than 40 years service. You will have 27.

endacl

You’ll be a new entrant to the superannuation scheme. This is not nearly as gold plated as the old scheme. I’d look into it very carefully. If you’re not on full hours for each year, your 1/80th for that year is reduced pro rata. You only increase your combined pension over state contributory after your prsi contributions have reached a threshold. If you find yourself scrambling for hours for a good chunk of the start of you’re career you may find, pension-wise, you’re no better off than any paye worker relying on state pension alone. There’s no way of ‘boosting’ income through the various pensionable alliwances. They’re all done away with.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670357#Comment_122670357

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I never copped that the SPC was incorporated into the pension.

The SPC is €271.90 per week or €14,138.80 per anum.

Say I worked only 17 years, my final pension would be

(17/80)*€69,857

€14,844.

Pretty much the same as the SPC.

Surely public sector workers should have reduced PRSI obligations?

endacl

Yep. You’d pay prsi to fund your state pension, and a superannuation contribution (a percentage of net salary) to fund the excess.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671510#Comment_122671510

What percentage is taken from your salary for pension contributions?

From what I can see public sector pensions aren’t that great, but they’re “guaranteed” in a sense and index linked to current ps pay rises.

With wise investments you could grow your private pension pot substantially.

jrmb

What would your subjects be? Are they core? Do you have each one to degree level? I've met chemists who are teachers but not "chemistry teachers" on the Teaching Council's terms, and in my case getting a second master's wasn't compatible with adding more subjects, so check that carefully.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671887#Comment_122671887

I’d probably have to check eligibility with the TC.

I studied Science with Nanotechnology at DIT.

What do you mean “chemists who are teachers but not chemistry teachers”?

jrmb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671905#Comment_122671905

Your subject qualifications have to come from undergraduate taught studies. Subtract postgrads/masters, self-directed projects, work placements and dissertations and you may find that you don't actually have enough credits. Half of my undergraduate degree went unrecognised.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671930#Comment_122671930

Jeepers that’s unbelievable!

So I could (hypothetically) have TWO PhDs, one in physics and one in maths an be ineligible?

Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein would be “less qualified” to teach PP maths and physics than someone who just about meets the TC requirements? Bizarre setup.

jrmb

Yep, nail on the head.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671605#Comment_122671605

4% for PRSI class A, for PS hired since April 1995, which goes towards the SPC.

6.5% is the headline rate of pension conts for most PS, but it is not as simple as 6.5% of your wages.

Then there is the ASC since 2009/2010.

That is 10% for pre 2013 staff and less % for members of the SPSPS.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671990#Comment_122671990

Yep. I also get a masters allowance of €6564 per annum. For an MSc in a subject that is entirely unrelated to my teaching work. Not complaining, obviously, but it doesn’t make an iota of sense.

endacl

Oh. And there’s no HDip any more. You’ll need the Masters in Education. That’s a two year commitment, with MA fees.

Dept don’t appear to want teachers. The teaching council is the organisational equivalent of a plug of matted hair blocking up the shower.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672583#Comment_122672583

Foes the MA in education count towards the masters allowance? You’re essentially getting an “allowance” for a qualification you should have anyway.

Just to clarify, the pension is no longer

(years worked/80)x final salary?

it’s

(yw/80) x average salary?

jrmb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672844#Comment_122672844

No, the master's allowance is a legacy thing that newcomers can't get.

You need to figure out what subject your degree would enable you to teach. A PME provider or the Teaching Council itself might not say (!), and any speculation about earnings at this stage is pointless.

Exiled1

A few questions….

How do you know you would like to be a teacher? Do you have any evidence other than youthful ambition resurrected?

Have you tested yourself in any way with a group of students? ie. have you coached extensively, taught, lectured to any groups?

Have you checked your qualifications with the Teaching Council as mentioned above?

How do you know you would be good? ….. because if not, it can be a lonely place.

Are you aware there is a shortage of Maths teachers but a surplus of Science teachers?

Are you prepared to get serious training in Special Needs in order to help you get a job?

Are you prepared to accept 2 or more years of subbing/ part time contracts etc. before you nail a full time job?

Have you spoken with an experienced professional who can give you some worthwhile advice, eg. somebody in the teaching field whom know and trust and who will give you honest answers? eg. a school guidance counsellor, Principal/ Deputy?

If you are passionate and have had good advice, then why not?

If you are sure it is for you and have done proper due diligence, do it.

Notice there is very little mention of money in any of my questions

Best wishes.

HazeDoll

I sat in the staff room today during a free class. There were about 12 other teachers there.

The conversation topics were as follows:

1 : Has anybody looked into working with Oide or any of the other teaching-adjacent bull5hit academies? How bad could it be? Bad, obviously, but it couldn't be worse than this, could it?

2 : It's only the first of October. How could it still only be the first of October?

3 : How do we get out? Very difficult to make a move into another career, but looking at the future of teaching fills us with dread. Does anybody know somebody who successfully got out? Does anybody know a way out?

I think that a person who has made a career for themselves in any other field would be mad to consider teaching.

endacl

10 more years….

endacl

minus one month!

maude6868

3 more years for me to get to 33/55 but seriously considering going after this year on cost neutral. 'All changed, changed utterly. A terrible beauty is born'. I feel exactly like the poster above, is it only October? Anyone else here go early and did you regret it?

nearby_cheetah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122673504#Comment_122673504

Have teachers, at any time, not complained about the job/pay/conditions/something in the past 50 years?

What you are saying might be true but needs to be taken in that context. It's not exactly news.

nearby_cheetah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122671012#Comment_122671012

Surely public sector workers should have reduced PRSI obligations?

Be aware that pension contributions under the new PS scheme have high thresholds before deductions are applied so occupational pensions deductions are quite small as a percentage of your salary.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674138#Comment_122674138

Say a teacher (hypothetically) works for 27 years after getting hired and retires in their early 50’s.

They will then be at the top of the payscale, ie, €81,000.

They can retire early in their early 50’s on (27/80)*€81,000 less SPC which is ca. €14,000 pa.

That’s still a guaranteed income of over €13,000 p/a that they can receive in addition to whatever other job they transfer to, whether it’s public or private.

Do I have my figures wrong?

jrmb

Your hypothesis is based on a very young teacher with exceptional (really exceptional) luck and success. It's unusual to start and remain on full hours, no matter how good a teacher is. You're looking in the wrong place for anything "guaranteed".

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674396#Comment_122674396

Looks like the profession and all of its former perks have gone to the dogs.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674396#Comment_122674396

It's unusual to start and remain on full hours,

So you could get full hours and lose them? 😳

I thought (and I was mistaken obviously) that you automatically got CID after a certain time subbing.

This thread has been a real eye opener. People who have a chip on their shoulder about the profession should read this. 😳😳

jrmb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676066#Comment_122676066

Subbing is covering for an absent teacher, which might only be a few hours as a once off.

You get a CID at the beginning of the third year if you've worked identical hours for the two full previous years and the school retains you - this isn't necessarily their choice. If you've only had a third of a full timetable, you only get a CID for that. You only get a third of the salary and climb a third of a point on the scale. You won't necessarily be offered the second year, and could miss out on the third, even having passed the same interview twice.

Joe286

Don't go into teaching. Discipline is declining and kids are feral and have little respect.

If you get a middle class school it's better but they milk the **** out of it.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122677510#Comment_122677510

That’s absolutely brutal.

So study BSc for 4 years, PME for 2 and that’s what you get?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674225#Comment_122674225

Yes, you are wrong.

You can't retire in your 50s and receive the pension.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674138#Comment_122674138

You are referring here to the ASC.

The normal 6.5% pension conts are the same under the SPSPS as under the pre-2013 scheme.

jrmb

That and you don't know what uptake of your subject will be like in a few years. A fad in another subject could send yours into decline, and you potentially only have one.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122678458#Comment_122678458

I never said you could.

Geuze

This is what you said:

"Say a teacher (hypothetically) works for 27 years after getting hired and retires in their early 50’s.

They will then be at the top of the payscale, ie, €81,000.

They can retire early in their early 50’s on (27/80)*€81,000 less SPC which is ca. €14,000 pa.

That’s still a guaranteed income of over €13,000 p/a that they can receive in addition to whatever other job they transfer to, whether it’s public or private.

Do I have my figures wrong?"

It is not possible to retire at age 52,53,54 and receive an occupational pension from that age onwards.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122678602#Comment_122678602

(27/80)*€81,000 = €27,337.50

LESS the SPC €14,000

= just over €13,000

Where did I say you’d get the state pension???

Geuze

I am referring to the PS occupational pension.

A teacher can't retire at age 52/53/54 and receive the occupational pension at that age.

Geuze

Look in post 40, final sentence, note the word "occupational".

Geuze

I advise you to read the attached document, from the ASTI.

It is helpful if you wish to understand PS pensions.

2021_ASTI_pension-information-booklet.pdf

nearby_cheetah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122678464#Comment_122678464

Yes, which also have allowances before any contributions are taken. So simply stating headline percentages is misleading.

In other sectors, a pension contribution % is applied to the whole salary.

Geuze

Yes, it's not a straight 6.5% of wages for post 1995 staff.

It is co-ordinated with PRSI.

nearby_cheetah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122678309#Comment_122678309

Once new teachers get full hours they'll be in a career where they'll spend the majority of it within the top 20% of household income , not including extras like posts and exam work.

And will have more time off than any other work place.

It is far from brutal. Your case might be different as a late entrant m

Teachers get full hours eventually unless incapable or an extremely niche subject.

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674080#Comment_122674080

I went early. Miniscule pension but I don't care. I escaped. In fairness, I was in a very 'challenging' school. There were some fantastic children who wanted to do well and enjoyed school but I was 'so good with the others' that I got landed with them, exclusively, and it broke me really, so I got out.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122679186#Comment_122679186

2022 data on household incomes, as published in 2023 SILC

To get into the top 20% decile, the threshold is 1632 disposable income per week, or 85k per annum.

A regular teacher (not a principal) will never get into this decile.

Sure their gross income isn't even 85k, never mind their disposable income.

I will check two teachers married to each other, on 65k each, 130k combined.

I think their disposable income is about 85-89k, but I had to estimate the pension and ASC.

Two teachers married, towards the top of the scale, 75k + 75k, will just about get into the top 20% decile.

KeithKelly1992

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122678458#Comment_122678458

Geuze my apologies.

I misread. I thought you said “you can’t receive the state pension”.