Ireland's Refugee Policy cont. Please read OP before posting

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122736769#Comment_122736769

''Ireland implements strict vetting and border controls '' Aslum seekers are only vetted in the EU only not their home country . Asylum Seekers approx 80% easily cross the border with NI to claim asylum .Those who arrive at the airports with no documents can claim asylum .There are many ways to circumvent immigration laws marriage of convienance, false passport, claim to be stateless . Most failed asylum seekers self deport which means they can stay if they want . When one is found to be a criminal and subject to deportation lengthy court cases arise few physical deportations are carried out . Those found to have breached immigration rules , i.e claimed asylum in another EU country , few are returned .

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737014#Comment_122737014

''Ireland implements strict vetting and border controls ''

I've seen this posted numerous times and repeated many times on various programmes and interviews. How people can sit there and say it with a straight face is beyond me.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737030#Comment_122737030

Why do you think we don't?

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737042#Comment_122737042

I think we don't because anyone can rock in from the UK and if they fail vetting they still stay

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737042#Comment_122737042

Well, Helen herself isn't very convincing - is she?

Questioning Justice Minister Helen McEntee on immigration data

Well worth the ten minutes watch.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737069#Comment_122737069

Noone from the UK is vetted. Noone from the EU is vetted. Noone from those places need to register that they live here, no need to inform authorities.

Both the CTA and EU right to freedom of movement are policies that we are fully signed up to. Do you think they should change?

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737122#Comment_122737122

That is somewhat correct but you leave out important clauses. As set out in EU Directive 2004/38/EC the Irish State can, after 90 days ask for proof that the individual is:

• In employment
• Self-employed
• A full time student with health insurance and money to support yourself
• You have money to support yourself and health insurance (for you and your family) without state assistance

Failure to show some of the above can result in a removal order. We don't really excel in deporting bogus Asylum Seekers, so removing other EU citizens is most likely unheard of.

We should be very strict on other EU citizens who are here and are a burden on the social welfare system. Giving other EU nationals social housing, social welfare, medical cards, etc… is a blatant abuse of the system. They need to go home if they cannot make it here.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122734018#Comment_122734018

As of 2024, there are an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 undocumented Irish immigrants  currently living in the United States. This figure reflects a significant number of Irish individuals who, over the years, have found themselves living and working in the U.S. without the necessary legal documentation​.

I would love to see Trump win the next USA election and hand these 15,000 'undocumented' illegal aliens (to use their term) a one-way ticket to Shannon Rineanna Airport. If only to serve as an end to this mealy-mouthed weak argument that we somehow owe the world a home because there are a few thousand Irish living in the USA under false pretences.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737014#Comment_122737014

The statement suggesting Ireland's vetting and border control systems are easily circumvented misrepresents the complexity of the asylum and immigration process. Firstly, asylum seekers are indeed vetted both at the EU level and by Irish authorities under the Common European Asylum System (CEAS). This includes a thorough review of their circumstances, personal history, and any available documentation. While asylum seekers may not always be vetted in their home countries due to dangerous conditions, the vetting process within the EU ensures their claims are examined based on international and EU standards, not simply accepted at face value.

Initially, upon arrival, they are registered and interviewed to document their identity and reasons for seeking asylum. This is followed by an in-depth interview where applicants provide detailed accounts of their experiences, which helps authorities assess the credibility of their claims. During this process, individuals are typically fingerprinted, and their fingerprints are entered into the Eurodac database, allowing authorities to check whether they have previously applied for asylum in another EU country​

In addition to fingerprinting, authorities conduct background checks against law enforcement databases to identify any security risks or criminal history. This multi-layered approach aims to ensure that only those genuinely in need of protection are granted asylum while safeguarding the integrity of the system. The decision-making process incorporates information from country-specific reports and personal testimonies, ensuring that each case is evaluated fairly​

The claim that 80% of asylum seekers enter Ireland through the Northern Ireland border is highly exaggerated. Can you provide any evidence of this or is it just a far right talking point that has no basis in reality? In fact, a significant proportion of asylum seekers—around one-third of all applicants—arrive through Dublin Airport. In 2023, over 13,000 international protection applicants arrived in Ireland, with more than 4,700 claiming asylum at Dublin Airport.

This statistic underlines the fact that entry through airports plays a major role in Ireland's asylum process, debunking the assertion that most asylum seekers cross via the Northern Ireland border.

While it's true that some asylum seekers may travel between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland due to the open border, claiming that most of them exploit this route is unsupported.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737170#Comment_122737170

The argument suggesting that 10,000 to 15,000 undocumented Irish immigrants should be forcibly deported to Ireland oversimplifies a complex issue. While it’s true that these individuals may not have legal status in the U.S., many have lived and contributed to American society for years, integrating into communities and workplaces. Forcing them to return could disrupt their lives, separate families, and cause considerable emotional and economic hardship, as many have built their lives in the U.S. and may not have established support networks in Ireland​

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737171#Comment_122737171

Is Helen McEntee's statement a 'Far Right' talking point? The Irish Examiner: Helen McEntee defends claim that 80% of asylum seekers coming from Northern Ireland

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737177#Comment_122737177

Tough on them. They broke the law. If the US decides to deport them, I would wholeheartedly support that move. Any Irish citizen abroad deserves to be drop-kicked back to Ireland if they have fallen foul of other nations laws. It really is that simple -

Forcing them to return could disrupt their lives, separate families, and cause considerable emotional and economic hardship, as many have built their lives in the U.S. and may not have established support networks in Ireland​

- crocodile tears don't cut the mustard. They had an opportunity to live in the USA via legal avenues but chose not to. That's on them.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737189#Comment_122737189

Helen McEntee's claim that 80% of asylum seekers are entering Ireland through the Northern Irish border has been a contentious point of discussion. While she suggests a significant flow of asylum seekers using this route, Michael Martin countered that there is no evidence to support this assertion. This discrepancy highlights the complexity of tracking asylum seekers' routes into Ireland, especially given the open border policy between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

The absence of concrete data to back McEntee's claim suggests that such statistics might be oversimplified or misinterpreted. The methods by which asylum seekers arrive can vary widely, and many may enter through Dublin Airport or other ports, as well as via irregular means. Michael Martin's stance emphasizes the need for accurate, data-driven assessments of immigration patterns rather than relying on anecdotal or exaggerated claims. This debate underscores the importance of grounded discussions about immigration policies and their implications for society.

Even if the claim that 80% of asylum seekers enter through the Northern Irish border is true, it’s crucial to recognize that they have the legal right to cross borders to seek asylum. International law supports the right of individuals to seek protection from persecution, and this right should be upheld regardless of the route taken. The focus should be on ensuring fair and humane processing of their claims rather than scapegoating vulnerable populations.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737209#Comment_122737209

While it's true that individuals should adhere to laws, the realities of immigration are often complex and nuanced. Many undocumented Irish immigrants in the U.S. may have initially entered legally but found themselves in difficult situations due to factors like job loss, family emergencies, or changing immigration policies. Additionally, the concept of compassion should guide our treatment of those seeking a better life; harsh deportations can ignore the personal struggles and sacrifices these individuals have made. Instead of advocating for punitive measures, we should push for fair and comprehensive immigration reform that addresses these challenges.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737122#Comment_122737122

Definitely

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737273#Comment_122737273

Changes to the Common Travel Area (CTA) and EU freedom of movement policies would not only undermine the rights of individuals already residing in Ireland but could also have far-reaching negative implications for the country as a whole. Such changes would create uncertainty for people from the EU and the UK who have settled in Ireland, potentially leading to a decline in their contributions to the workforce and society. This could result in a talent drain, as skilled workers might seek opportunities in other countries with more welcoming immigration policies, ultimately harming the Irish economy.

Additionally, altering these policies would jeopardize the established goodwill and cooperation between Ireland and its neighbors. The CTA has facilitated smooth travel and trade, allowing businesses to operate efficiently across borders. Changing these arrangements could lead to increased bureaucracy, delays, and disruptions in commerce, negatively affecting sectors like tourism and retail, which are crucial for the Irish economy . Moreover, a shift away from free movement could strain relationships within the EU, potentially leading to diplomatic tensions and decreased collaboration on key issues like security, public health, and labor mobility. Maintaining the status quo fosters not only economic growth but also strengthens the ties that bind Ireland to its European partners .

It could also significantly impact Irish citizens traveling abroad, particularly to the UK and other EU nations. Currently, Irish citizens enjoy the right to move freely, work, and reside in these countries without facing extensive immigration checks. If these policies were altered, it could result in increased barriers for Irish individuals seeking employment, education, or simply visiting family and friends abroad. This could lead to a decline in opportunities for personal and professional growth, restricting access to a broader job market and educational institutions in neighboring countries​.

Furthermore, imposing stricter controls would create logistical challenges and could foster a sense of isolation. Irish citizens might encounter longer processing times, additional paperwork, and uncertainty about their status while traveling, which could deter them from pursuing opportunities outside Ireland. This situation could also lead to a chilling effect on the cultural and familial ties that many Irish people have with the UK and EU countries, diminishing the sense of community and connection that has historically existed. Overall, such changes could harm not only individual lives but also the economic and social fabric of Ireland itself

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737158#Comment_122737158

I didn't think I needed to post that, thought it was common knowledge.

Of course once an EU citizen is here long enough they are entitled to everything an Irish citizen is, so all supports are open to EU citizens here long enough.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737273#Comment_122737273

Really? You think we should leave the EU and the CTA? Id imagine you would be very much in the minority with that, if you don't mind me saying

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122735082#Comment_122735082

I never mentioned the UK or EU as Irish dont require visa's or work permits in these countries. I specifically called out countries like the US, Canada and Australia as Irish people chose to work there without visas or work permits, making them illegal migrants.

Britishin people in Ireland are entitled to welfare, housing and medical care, same as the Irish are entitled to the same in Britain, this has always been the way. This is not part of the discussion or debate. Period.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737295#Comment_122737295

Such changes would create uncertainty for people from the EU and the UK who have settled in Ireland, potentially leading to a decline in their contributions to the workforce and society. This could result in a talent drain, as skilled workers might seek opportunities in other countries with more welcoming immigration policies, ultimately harming the Irish economy.

I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement - EU and UK workers by and large would be fine. However the upside of serving removal orders on EU citizens here who are a drain on the social welfare system would be to free up residential property. This would dent spiralling house prices and make available much needed lettings for renters who are employed. It would also increase the social housing stock which first and foremost should be for Irish citizens. This is all before we extend to the benefits of reduced demand on public health services, education, etc…

Additionally, altering these policies would jeopardize the established goodwill and cooperation between Ireland and its neighbors. The CTA has facilitated smooth travel and trade, allowing businesses to operate efficiently across borders. Changing these arrangements could lead to increased bureaucracy, delays, and disruptions in commerce, negatively affecting sectors like tourism and retail, which are crucial for the Irish economy.

Nobody is calling for the wholesale changes to the CTA or the EU's freedom of movement policy - what people are calling for is, for the rules that already exist to be enforced such as removal orders for EU citizens here who are not contributing. In addition, a proper and swift Asylum system that:

• grants or denies refugee status within one month maximum (can't reach a decision, then it's automatically denied)
• only one appeal allowed
• if denied then a forced deportation within 72hrs, no exceptions whatsoever.
• instead of a 'safe country' list (the joke that we had to add the UK recently) have an 'unsafe regions' list
• every country/region is deemed safe unless on the 'unsafe regions' list
• by changing the definition from country to region, we can pinpoint and help those who are really affected

The above points are just a few of what should be implemented.

With regards to your point about tourism - the current government policy of using hotels, B&Bs and guesthouses to cater for the overspill from Direct Provision has lead to more damage to the tourism industry than any changes to the CTA or EU freedom of movement policy could ever do.

Furthermore, imposing stricter controls would create logistical challenges and could foster a sense of isolation. Irish citizens might encounter longer processing times, additional paperwork, and uncertainty about their status while traveling, which could deter them from pursuing opportunities outside Ireland. This situation could also lead to a chilling effect on the cultural and familial ties that many Irish people have with the UK and EU countries, diminishing the sense of community and connection that has historically existed. Overall, such changes could harm not only individual lives but also the economic and social fabric of Ireland itself

How has strict controls already in place in the likes of Australia and the US affected the Irish people who live and work there and also have family here? Very little to be honest apart from getting paperwork in order prior to travel and answering a few questions at immigration control either in Dublin/Shannon or at the Australian airport where you land. That last statement is quite laughable - appearing to care about the social fabric of Ireland itself while cheering on massive inward migration. Yeah, right.

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737993#Comment_122737993

You are debating chat gpt, that poster is obviously incapable of forming their own argument. I wouldn't bother if I were you.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737538#Comment_122737538

So, there is no issue with UK citizens coming here and being a drain on our social welfare and housing, in your opinion?

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737993#Comment_122737993

The assertion that EU workers would be unaffected by changes to the Common Travel Area (CTA) and freedom of movement fails to consider the potential negative impacts on the workforce and economy as a whole. While EU nationals may find ways to navigate new regulations, creating barriers to their mobility could deter skilled workers from settling in Ireland. This could lead to labor shortages in critical sectors, which are already experiencing challenges in filling vacancies​

Additionally, the idea that expelling EU citizens on welfare would free up residential properties and reduce house prices is overly simplistic. The housing crisis in Ireland is complex, driven by factors like insufficient housing supply, speculation, and development delays. Simply removing some residents will not significantly alter market dynamics or address the root causes of the housing shortage.

Moreover, targeting EU citizens who utilize welfare services could foster social division and resentment, undermining community cohesion. Many EU migrants contribute to the economy through work, taxes, and social security, and their removal could inadvertently harm the social fabric and economic stability of the country. Rather than creating a more favorable environment for Irish citizens, these actions could lead to increased instability and a reduction in overall workforce productivity.

Implementing removal orders for EU nationals who do not meet arbitrary contribution standards undermines the principles of free movement and mutual recognition that are foundational to the EU. Many EU citizens may face temporary hardships but still contribute significantly to Irish society through their labor and social security contributions

Regarding the asylum system reforms, the suggested one-month decision timeline and rapid deportations could violate international human rights obligations, including the right to seek asylum. Such measures could expose vulnerable individuals fleeing persecution to further dangers, particularly if their claims are not given due consideration. The idea of replacing a 'safe country' list with an 'unsafe regions' list could also create complications, as the situation within countries can vary significantly by region and may not be easily categorized​.

The claim that accommodating asylum seekers in hotels and B&Bs damages the tourism industry is not fully substantiated. Many stakeholders in the tourism sector argue that the industry is resilient and can adapt to coexist with humanitarian efforts. For instance, the Irish Tourism Industry Confederation (ITIC) has highlighted that while a significant portion of tourist accommodations is currently contracted for asylum seekers, the overall recovery of tourism can still progress alongside these humanitarian needs. They note that effective management and alternative accommodation solutions are essential for both supporting displaced individuals and protecting tourism interests.

I also disagree with the assertion that the current government policy of utilizing hotels, B&Bs, and guesthouses for asylum seekers has caused more damage to the tourism industry than changes to the Common Travel Area (CTA) or EU freedom of movement policies would. While the temporary accommodation of asylum seekers can present challenges, it does not fundamentally undermine the tourism sector. In fact, as said above, many stakeholders within the industry recognize the necessity of supporting vulnerable populations, indicating that effective management and cooperation can mitigate potential disruptions.

The tourism sector is highly adaptable, and many businesses are finding ways to accommodate both tourists and asylum seekers. Reports show that while a portion of the accommodation is allocated to refugees, the overall impact on tourism revenue has been manageable. Moreover, as Ireland's tourism recovery continues, the focus should be on developing innovative strategies to balance humanitarian needs with industry interests rather than viewing them as mutually exclusive​. Addressing the accommodation shortage through more creative solutions, such as utilizing vacant properties or modular housing, could help mitigate any negative effects on tourism while still fulfilling humanitarian responsibilities.

Finally, Implementing even stricter immigration controls could have significant negative repercussions for Irish citizens living in countries like Australia and the US, as well as for the economies of these nations. For example, if visa requirements were tightened, many Irish nationals currently working in essential sectors—such as healthcare, hospitality, and technology—might struggle to obtain or renew their work permits. This could exacerbate existing labor shortages in these industries, which are crucial for economic growth and public services .

Additionally, stricter controls could lead to increased family separations, creating emotional and social challenges for Irish expatriates. Many individuals have settled abroad and established strong family ties; more rigorous immigration policies could hinder their ability to reunite with loved ones. This separation can contribute to feelings of isolation and distress, ultimately affecting the mental health and well-being of these individuals . Stricter immigration policies can also foster an environment of uncertainty and fear among immigrant communities, potentially leading to social tensions and undermining the integration efforts that benefit both migrants and host societies .

By considering the broader implications of immigration policies, it becomes evident that a more balanced approach—one that supports both the needs of the host country and the rights of immigrants—would be more beneficial in fostering social cohesion and economic stability.

And one last thing, It’s quite amusing that you find it laughable to express concern for Ireland's social fabric while neglecting to acknowledge how well-managed immigration can enhance our communities. Rather than viewing inward migration solely as a burden, it's essential to recognize its potential to invigorate our economy and enrich our culture. Countries that embrace diversity often find that immigrants contribute significantly to innovation, job creation, and the overall vibrancy of society.

Moreover, reducing the complexities of immigration to a simple argument undermines the nuanced benefits that come with it. History has repeatedly shown that when immigrants are integrated into society, they can be powerful assets—strengthening communities and driving economic growth. So, instead of scoffing at these concerns, let’s engage in a thoughtful discussion about how to create a balanced approach to immigration that works for everyone in Ireland.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122737217#Comment_122737217

Our immigration system should not be held to ransom over emotions. The concept of compassion starts at home with our own citizens first and in addition our international aid contributions.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738117#Comment_122738117

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738027#Comment_122738027

I think you're on to something @DaithiMa

JP Liz V1

Remember "Pete Dube", the killer, living here under a different name, claiming asylum but no Ireland is strict with vetting and border control

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/world-crime/man-wanted-in-zimbabwe-for-triple-murder-had-been-living-in-ireland-under-fake-name/a330331179.html

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738119#Comment_122738119

Compassion can indeed begin at home, but it should not exclude the idea that helping others, especially those in dire circumstances, can also benefit our society.

Countries that embrace compassionate immigration policies often see positive outcomes, such as economic growth, cultural diversity, and enhanced social cohesion. Studies have shown that immigrants contribute significantly to the economy by filling labor shortages and creating jobs . Furthermore, international aid contributions do not need to be mutually exclusive with supporting immigrants. In fact, a balanced approach to immigration and international aid can foster global stability and promote a more interconnected world

Compassionate policies can reflect the values of a society while also recognizing that the integration of newcomers can bring about social and economic benefits that ultimately uplift the entire community. Thus, advocating for a more inclusive immigration system does not mean neglecting our own citizens; rather, it means expanding our capacity for compassion to those in need, which can strengthen our society as a whole.

DaithiMa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738184#Comment_122738184

Nothing surer. This site really will die a death if posters are permitted to spam threads with chat gpt content.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738334#Comment_122738334

I didn’t use any ChatGPT content in my replies. I’m here to share thoughts and ideas based on our discussion. I'm taking adhd meds which perhaps put me in a trance like state as I respond but thats good and I remain focused and alert and enjoy the discussions.

I won’t be responding to further accusations and will place you on ignore, as it seems you're trying to derail the discussion. I will give you one more chance if you have genuine points to discuss regarding immigration and asylum, I’m open to that, but let’s keep the focus on constructive conversation.

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738094#Comment_122738094

The topic is about refugees. Click baiting again, but sorry, not engaging with you.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738349#Comment_122738349

We may have different opinions but take care of yourself

Sorry this might be a stupid question but what is ChatGPT ?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738529#Comment_122738529

Noone is click baiting. Just merely making the point that posters are discriminating, it's ok for UK citizens but not other citizens. Merely pointing out the hypocrisy in such views.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738557#Comment_122738557

Visit: ChatGPT and ask it a question.

Look at the style and tone of the answers it gives. It's easy to copy and paste the feedback from ChatGPT and while that may be useful, it is a problem in the education sector in particular.