Ireland's Refugee Policy cont. Please read OP before posting

Backstreet Moyes

At least we will get a break for awhile on the lies about the rise of the far right.

Geuze

I am strongly against illegal immigration by AS making bogus claims.

However, I did not, and will not, vote for those micro nationalist parties, some of whom appear to be bonkers.

NP = this seems to be the bonkers lads?

I get confused with their names, they are often similar.

IFP, is that Herman Kelly?

Anyways, these tiny parties do not have any support, and no serious person thought they had a chance of a seat.

However, their lack of electoral success is not an endorsement of open borders/Direct Provision/no removal of failed AS policy of the current Govt.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914821#Comment_122914821

Don't forget Derek Blight, Philip Dwyer, Malachy Stenson, Pepper, who am I leaving out?

Funny, they had been getting a lot of praise on the thread from people who make similar comments to yourself.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914764#Comment_122914764

I have no idea why you quoted me to ask that question because I never mentioned it.

To give you my opinion, I would expect violence is going to get worse and we will see incidents fairly soon.

A lot of loons actually believed they would get the current government out and things would be changing.

They are now realizing that nothing will change for the next 5 years and they will be more desperate.

Unfortunately I do think we are going to see these scum carrying out attacks.

Thankfully as the majority of people on here said and the election confirmed, their is a very small support of the far right in Ireland, so hopefully theirs not too much done.

JP Liz V1

Apparently the lowest election voters since 1923

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914852#Comment_122914852

I have not seen a lot of what you just said unless I have overlooked.

Can you quote a few examples for each of those where people have praised them.

If they have been getting a lot of praise then it should be a handy task for you.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914876#Comment_122914876

And you might think you're removed from the behaviour of these loons.

Personally I think those who engage in the anti-immigration rhetoric and fear mongering, in full knowledge of the violence, harassment and abuse going on all over the country, are also quite culpable.

prunudo

Even after no candidates from the likes of the national party, Irish freedom first party, Irelands first national freedom party and whatever other arrangement of names there are, getting any seats. It seems that some posters on here and in twitterland are still obsessed with the far right. Almost like it's a concerted and organised effort to muddy the immigration discussions.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914890#Comment_122914890

Why would I? I wasn't referring to you specifically.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914787#Comment_122914787

And yet ordinary people repeat far right rhetoric everyday. allowing it to become mainstream. The.more people allow this, the more of a foothold they get. Eventually the far right ideas become mainstream. That's the danger.

'The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist'

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915201#Comment_122915201

What is far right rhetoric?

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915180#Comment_122915180

It was unfair for me to ask you of proof of something that doesn't exist.

If you want to back up your claims then work away, I won't hold my breath.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915216#Comment_122915216

'Unvetted males', the country being 'flooded', 'bogus', 'illegals', all the lies about welfare tourism, safe countries, cherry picking crime reports, fleeing active warzones, people being 'imported', cultural purity etc etc

There's very little but this kind of hateful rhetoric coming from the anti-immigration posters on the thread from what I can see.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915312#Comment_122915312

I asked before but how are they vetted exactly?

If here with fake documentation or no documents, are they not illegal then?

There is a list of safe countries

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915201#Comment_122915201

pretending large scale migration of unskilled mostly young males into Ireland isnt a issue is a fairly good trick too

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915336#Comment_122915336

Nobody's 'vetted', there's no such thing.

No. Only if a reasonable explanation can't be provided in which case the person has broken an immigration law, they're not an 'illegal'

Countries are categorised as safe if people who live there are less likely to need asylum. That's very usually not the sense it's used here.

These have been clarified multiple times on the thread. Yet many posters continue to push the hateful rhetoric. They do so knowing violence and harassment is being carried out all over the country by people who justify their actions with these lies.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915365#Comment_122915365

Is it? Seeking asylum is a fundamental human right. What do you suggest we do about that?

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915312#Comment_122915312

You don't believe there are bogus asylum seekers?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914852#Comment_122914852

I am somewhat aware of these names, although I could not link them with any party.

I think some of them are current Cllrs?

I am probably incorrect, but are Blighe and Stenson Cllrs? I think?

Are they in parties, or are they independent? I'm not sure myself.

At the moment, I can't see any of them building any success.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915406#Comment_122915406

been through this before but sure lets go again ,

seeking asylum coming from the UK or Germany or Spain isnt a reason to come to Ireland ,

Seeking asylum in Ireland from jail in a home or other country isnt either,

How about an off shore site to prevent fraudsters going missing? ditto 30 year old claiming to be juveniles, arrive without documents you go back on the same plane or next one. convicted of any arrestable offence your deported the same day your released from bail or prison , generous use of exclusion orders for EU nationals who commit crimes. the funding and political and judicial support to do these things

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915312#Comment_122915312

I never use the phrase "vetted", and I don't think it's helpful.

However, the fact remains that people are arriving into the country to claim asylum, having deliberately discarded their travel documents and ID papers.

Why would they do this? A genuine AS would not do this.

Therefore, they are not genuine.

Therefore, they are bogus.

"Flooded" is a provocative and unhelpful term. The number of illegal immigrants making bogus asylum claims is small, compared to the scale of legal immigrants.

• UKR refugees = legal = 105k+, maybe 110k
• Work visas = legal = maybe 30k pa? I must check the numbers
• Student visas = legal - how many I wonder?
• AS = illegal = maybe 20k pa? The total is 140,000 over the last 30 years, I suppose that is significant enough.

"Illegals" = yes, if you deliberately discard your travel documents, you have entered the State illegally.

"Bogus" = yes, after following asylum cases all the way back to the earler waves of west Africans, I contend that the vast majority of asylum claims are bogus. All claims from Albania and Georgia are bogus, for example. The American claims are obviously bogus.

I have to smile when I see failed AS that we allow to stay, then returning to their country of origin for a visit. God Help Us, we are so stupid and soft, they must think we are fools.

(remeber Pamela Izevbekhai: https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/news/pamela-deported-after-six-year-battle/27582565.html)

"fleeing active warzones" = this is another great line used by the NGOs, whereas we all know the truth, that the majority of AS come through NI and GB.

Is Leeds a warzone? Bristol, Birmingham?

During a previous wave of illegal immigration by Asian men making bogus asylum claims, it was revealed that 50% came from the UK

I am amazed that the likes of Sinead Gibney lie on live televsion about AS, and yet she was elected in the GE!! People are awful soft.

Galwayguy35

TDs and the media seem to think immigration is no longer an issue based on the election results.

Let's see what happens when Dublin and other large urban areas continue to bear the brunt of it.

It's going to be in interesting to see how this plays out because unless deportations are ramped up its not going to end well.

archfi

People appear to have forgotten that FFG purposely announced a tougher asylum/IPA stance, FG after Harris's election as leader and both in advance of the election being called and in the campaign and the media reported on this repeatedly.

Also, SF had a bit of a flip on their immigration policy stance before the election then immediately were labelled as having 'lurched to the right' by the gaggle of leftist microparties, in particular Bacik.

Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume for a large percentage of those who turned out to vote that the two main govt parties and even the main opposition party had satiated their immigration worries which was a foolish thing to believe, but there you go. I don't hold out much hope that FFG will reverse the shambles of what they have wrought and that will definitely not happen if they invite Labour and/or SD into govt

The actual far-right 'nationalist patriot' micro non-entities won't be making inroads like their cousins on the bonkers marxist left have - they are in the Dail and councils and in the parties which used to be working class left parties (splits are a hobby for these, just like their nationalist patriot cousins) and have been for ages with not a bother on those who are so concerned with extremists.

lmao10

Mod Edit: Warned and banned for baiting and uncivil posting

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912805#Comment_122912805

A few I love that !!

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915312#Comment_122915312

Yes they are all truly deserving of state welfare and housing for life we are so blessed.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914821#Comment_122914821

They talk the talk about illegal immigration these fringe parties but would they do anything to sort it after in the long run. Sensible measures to reduce and stamp out it by a government that puts its citizens first. Think ff and fg are too big business orientated and they turned this into an industry to make big money off the taxpayer

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915483#Comment_122915483

You don't seem to be able to understand. Claiming asylum is a fundamental human right. If they are not entitled to it, it is up to the host country to find that, based on their investigations.

The law states that someone can claim asylum whether they are in the state legally or illegally. It does not matter whether they have documents or not. So there is no sending someone back without documents. Where would you send them?

Boggles

Some people seem very upset that the patriots and citizen journalists made an absolute holy show of themselves at the polls.

RTE, the state and Gerry Hutch all colluded to steal the election.

Hopefully the Gardaí are looking at this and a file will be sent to the DPP.

Lotus Flower

Who are these some people?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916008#Comment_122916008

Link?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915693#Comment_122915693

Well, to be fair, I think many on both sides here appear to have disregarded the acknowledgement by all the large parties that more robust immigration and asylum policies are needed. Because many seem to be operating under the continued illusion that any of these parties are pro "open borders" — when they are not.

Of course, those who lament these parties as open borders advocates seem to be of the view that one day in 2022 (Ireland having never really had a major influx of asylum seekers) — these parties just made a collective proactive decision entirely out of the blue to become pro-open borders and this entirely domestic decision had absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with the prevailing situation in Ukraine and globally following the lifting of travel restrictions.

Voters are concerned about immigration and asylum — but what they have rejected are the melodramatic fearmongering views about it peddled by some and regularly trotted out here.

I've said it before, but the people who think that the Irish people don't take immigration seriously enough should focus on more positive arguments and actually set out a vision that can have wide appeal — rather than constantly vilifying people as enemies within and foretelling the onslaught of the apocalypse.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916026#Comment_122916026

Mentally unwell I'm guessing.

The failed heroes and their supporters peddling all sorts of crazy on their echo chambers.

Forgive me for not linking.

Lotus Flower

So an anecdote about a very small group of people? No one here seems surprised or upset

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916209#Comment_122916209

I don't think any of us could swear to that given the anonymous nature of users.

Lotus Flower

Their supporters are so upset that they’re posting on other places but are keeping it a secret on Boards? That makes no sense

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915991#Comment_122915991

If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then this system/framework is not fit for purpose.

It seems to encourage the deliberate discarding of travel documents, as illegal immigrants will not suffer in any way if they do so.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916392#Comment_122916392

It is absolutely true. The reasons being that a lot of people don't/can't get documents in their own country.

It's up to the host country to investigate their claims

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915831#Comment_122915831

The post though does acknowledge that there is crime. That’s progress

babyducklings1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916392#Comment_122916392

Michael O Leary says it’s a scam , that they are flushing their documents then arriving for flight, Good article.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/ryanair-working-with-department-of-justice-to-photograph-passenger-documents-1735922

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915831#Comment_122915831

Highest gun crime in Europe, largest amount of bombings and literally elected a right wing government because of how badly they handled the refugee issues. They are now paying asylum seekers to leave and are working with Denmark and Norway on ways to minimise the amount arriving. Even the leaders of the previous left wing government have admitted they did a terrible job letting so many in and putting them into places that couldn't support the numbers.

But sure it's just a couple of lads causing a little trouble. They did a great job integrating the asylum seekers according to the reality denying cheerleaders. It must be great to be so morally righteous that you can ignore facts.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916447#Comment_122916447

How did they get on the aircraft without the documents?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916755#Comment_122916755

Round and round and round. Why do posters keep asking the same questions that have been discussed many times?

Firstly, an airplane into Dublin airport isn't the only way to enter Ireland.

Secondly, many people using fake documents are scared to produce them.

Thirdly, many people facilitating the movement of these people, take back the fake documents that they have supplied.

All this being posted here over and over again.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915216#Comment_122915216

According the particular regulars on here…

Q: Hey they're going to put 1000 IPA's into a building next door to my kids Crèche and the Primary school and I don't think that's right, there was absolutely no consultation before the ministerial order to open the IPA centre in my village with 1 doctors office and no Garda station…

A: Enough with your racist far right fascist comments, be quiet now!

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916530#Comment_122916530

Something that has barely been mentioned since the weekend is that one of the reasons the far right did so atrociously in the election here is the virtual absence of all of the above in Ireland i.e. migrant gangs, gun crime, ghettos, race riots, terrorist groups etc. Irish society is actually very stable and cohesive and well integrated by European standards.

Saying that 'this will be Ireland in ten year's time' hardly holds up either : we already have one of the biggest non national populations in Europe and have done for some considerable time.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916832#Comment_122916832

What is the relevance to the crèche/primary school?

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916881#Comment_122916881

Large groups of men with nothing to do all day except hang around is not ideal near schools or crèches

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916913#Comment_122916913

Sorry we can't have that sort of talk, diversity is strength…

Lotus Flower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916876#Comment_122916876

The far right did atrociously because the far right bogeyman has been blown massively out of proportion. We’ve been saying that for a long time

And it’s very naive to think that Ireland has done well where places like Sweden hasn’t. Ireland is behind Europe in terms of numbers

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122916530#Comment_122916530

Well, aren't you also ignoring facts?

Sweden carries a similar legacy to France in terms of having built high rise blocks that were subsequently used to house almost all new asylum seekers — leading to ghettoisation which was then exacerbated by the influx of Syrian asylum seekers.

While Ireland's handling of the influx of Ukrainian refugees left much to be desired (perhaps understandably given our country's relative lack of experience in dealing with such things and its first experience being a major war on the European continent), the approach has been different.

What's actually quite funny is that — even in this article written by a member of the right wing Sweden Democrats (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2023/07/the-lessons-for-america-in-swedens-immigration-failures/amp/) — there is reference to how NIMBYism was also a crucial factor in Sweden's eventual problems. He speaks of the failure to geographically spread asylum seekers throughout the country as a primary cause of issues.

Ireland of course — haphazardly and faced with a tricky situation — actually did try to spread accommodation out. But that wasn't good enough for many on here either, who lecture us one day on Sweden's problems while also glorifying the very same opposition to asylum seekers being spread around the country which led to a lot of Sweden's problems.