Can you be sued

yourdeadwright

Strange situation iv heard off what can happen here,

Someone fell off a high stole in a pub ( not drunk) & knocked someone over who was then injured,

Can that person sue for damages from the person on the stole ?

Victor

I presume you mean stool.

Anyone can sue anyone. Whether that is successful is another matter.

If you are dancing or standing on a stool and fall off, landing on someone, then you have a case to answer. Similarly if you get wildly drunk and fall off. If you simply misjudge the stool as you sit down, then it would likely be harder for a case to be sustained against you.

If the stool randomly breaks as you sit on it for the first time and you fall off, the publican likely has a case to answer.

blade1

Was the person that got hurt a T.D.?

suvigirl

They could. But why would they? Unless the person who fell off is extremely wealthy, surely there is no point.

Claw Hammer

Many people are covered for personal liability in their hose insurance. No need for them to be wealthy. It may well cover a situation like this. Sue away.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744445#Comment_122744445

The want the medical bills paid for, seems like a freak accident

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744639#Comment_122744639

what were they doing in the way in the first place?
Accidents don't happen, they are caused!

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744650#Comment_122744650

A person was walking past behind & an older man who fell off a stool back wards ,Knocked the person over who then injured themselves,

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744674#Comment_122744674

Sounds a bit far-fetched.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744650#Comment_122744650

Next thing all bar stools will need to have backs, so no one loses their balance and falls!

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745021#Comment_122745021

Or maybe publicans don't serve doddery old eejits who shouldn't be out drinking anyway.

AndrewJRenko

You'd need to prove some kind of negligence to win a legal claim. Unless the person on the stool was negligent in some way, there's no point in sueing them.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744614#Comment_122744614

The Publican definitely has insurance and probably much deeper pockets.

ngunners

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744614#Comment_122744614

I already have car insurance, home insurance and life insurance and now you're telling me I need to insure my hose as well?! Talk about a racket

blade1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745279#Comment_122745279

Hose insurance comes with a 30 day money back no dribble guarantee.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745259#Comment_122745259

The publican didn't injure the eejit who is complaining.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745399#Comment_122745399

But the injury happend on his premises and he has insurance for such occurrences.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745136#Comment_122745136

And what is the maximum legal agd fir drinking?

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745306#Comment_122745306

That's a pure pipedream, sorry to rain down on your parade ,

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745422#Comment_122745422

He has insurance to cover his liabilty to persons on his premises. If the incident was solely down to the actions of one patron on another, he should have no involvement. However, in reality, a solicitor suing on behalf of an injured party will name anyone and everyone in an action and it will need to be defended

joebloggs32

If the lad who fell off the stool was blind drunk and the pub continued to serve them then there is a case to answer on behalf of the publican.

Likewise, if it was proven that the stool was defective, causing the original fall and subsequent injury the publican would also bear some or even all responsibility.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745978#Comment_122745978

And to be clear, if none of that is true, the OP didn't suggest any such issues applied to this case, any action against the publican would fail, given that there is no negligence involved.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745422#Comment_122745422

He has insurance to cover injury caused by his negligence only, not for the negligence of other people on his premises.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745598#Comment_122745598

What age are you?

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749498#Comment_122749498

Publicans have greater responsibilities than most, given that their business model is to get people drunk.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749525#Comment_122749525

They have a duty of care, same as anybody else.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745978#Comment_122745978

On the ball , both avenues are being sought by the "victim"

The old man was not drunk & it'll suit the pub to back him up on this , the stool was not defective either, the old man simply lost his balance,

hullaballoo

Even if there was some way to construct an argument that the publican bears some moral culpability for serving alcohol to someone who then went on to fall off the stool, the act of falling off a stool is down to the faller's own negligence. There ends the question of liability for the publican to the person injured by the falling drunkard.

I appreciate in the OP's story, the faller wasn't drunk but there is a strong (almost irrebuttable in practice) presumption that if you're drinking in a pub, you're drunk.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749556#Comment_122749556

You last statement would mean that the injured party would also be presumed drunk at the time of the incident ?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749498#Comment_122749498

Surely he has public liability? That will cover accidents on premises

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749657#Comment_122749657

The public liability is to cover the publicans liability in the event that he is found to be negligent and causes injury. It does not cover every accident on the premises. For the publican to be liable he must owe a duty of care to the injured party, must have been in breach of that duty and the person must have suffered damage. He is not in breach of duty if one patron on the premises injures another, unless it was reasonably foreseeable.
A motorist has 3rd party insurance. It only covers persons injured by the motorists negligent use of the car and not any other injury cause by the vehicle.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749833#Comment_122749833

I'd argue that it is reasonably foreseeable that in a pub, patrons may be more likely to injure other patrons.

And doesn't public liability insurance cover accidents that don't necessarily have any negligence?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749896#Comment_122749896

No. The key point about public liablity insurance is that it's insurance against a liablity you may have to the public. The insurance won't pay out unless you are liable, and ordinary principles of negligence, occupier's liability, duty of care, etc, apply to determine whether you are liable.

In principle, you can insure against losses arising for third parties due to pure accidents that occur on your premises and for which you are not liable. But it's not common to do so.

SouthWesterly

I'd say the pub owner could be at fault for providing a stool that someone could fall off. Was it a 4 legged stool , a 3 or a 2 legged stool? Indeed was the stool legless? Someone suggested putting a back on said stool but if that's the case, it's a chair and not a stool.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749896#Comment_122749896

This is the crux of the problem. Public perception is that if any incident occurs in a business, there is a pot of gold via insurance to pay out, whether there is negligence or not

Claw Hammer

No if you are driving a car on the public road and a cyclist travels into the back of the car and injures themselves, it is not your fault and your insurance is not liable. If you drive your car into a cyclist and injure them, it is your fault and your insurance will pay. Public liability operates the same way. the key word is liability. The publican simply isn't liable unless it was through his fault.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122752080#Comment_122752080

Negligence isn't the only route. If the publican or a member of staff deliberately pushed the person off the stool, the publican would still be liable via duty of care. Admittedly, the insurer will take a different view on this compared to many other circumstances.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749896#Comment_122749896

In that case, it's reasonably foreseeable for patrons to take additional care when walking past oul lads on stools in a pub.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122749896#Comment_122749896

I'd say the opposite. In a pub most people are static and there are clearly designated walkways. In a supermarket people are pushing heavy objects which can be hard to control or picking up objects from high shelves.

Insurance isn't the free money tree that people seem to think. A company making an insurance claim is going to face substantially increased insurance premiums, if they can get insurance, so they either trade with no insurance or close.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122752865#Comment_122752865

Liability excludes deliberate actions. Insurers will refuse indemnity

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122752080#Comment_122752080

I hope you don't think I am suggesting anything like that, I would have just assumed that owners have insurance for accidents on their premises. Wrongly, it appears.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122754019#Comment_122754019

They have insurance to cover their negligence. Accidents can happen which are not the responsibility of the business owner. If an employee does something deliberately, the owner is vicariously liable, but the insurer will not indemnify the business owner

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122755050#Comment_122755050

Yes, I understand the negligence and vicarious liability. I just assumed premises would have insurance to cover accidents.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122756653#Comment_122756653

No such policy is available, only ones which cover the liability of the business

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745279#Comment_122745279

You don't have volcano insurance?