My brother moving home from Australia with wife and 3 year old

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074464#Comment_123074464

That is the best advice so far.

I can't believe the amount of people who say don't let the brother move in.

He is your brother after all. I'd make sure and give him a timeline tho maybe 6 months as it will be difficult for them to find there feet. My own brother lives in australia and my father isnt well so hes been home a few times in the last year for month stays and he stays with me. He his coming back with his other half again in may.

If not 6 months even 3 months would be OK. You just can't shaft your own brother and his family.

No-one, I repeat no-one on the thread said do not accommodate the brother. What most people are saying is do not accommodate the brother, the wife and the toddler with no timeline in place.

If the plan was for the brother to come over on his own, stay for a couple of days while he scopes out places for them to rent, and secure himself a job, I dont think anyone would have a problem with that.

It's the three of them arriving on the doorstep that people are concerned about.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074508#Comment_123074508

The difference is you know for definite your brother is heading home, a return ticket is booked.

The problem here is the brother doesn't seem to have a plan.....over there 20yrs so must be 38+ still renting.....is willing to walk away from whatever job he has with nothing lined up here....there's just too many unknowns.

Once they get in the door it'll be very hard to get them out...then they could end up having another baby, so the OP has gone from living solo for 20 yrs to a house share , that he doesn't particularly want with 3 and potentially 4 people.

Then guaranteed some bright spark will make the comment the house is cramped would the op not move back with the parents and leave them the house while they get themselves sorted.......I say this as I was in a reverse situation..."father in law " died MIl was absolutely devastated, they had a 4 bedroom house and she was super lonely....we had planned to move back to the area ....so someone kindly suggested that we should move in...I had not worked my arse off to buy a house to end up in a house share...but I was the worst in the world for refusing .

These situations are just a recipe for disaster.

tylerdurdan2025

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074249#Comment_123074249

No its not . Dickhead

2smiggy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074249#Comment_123074249

if not, it should be. 20 years in austrailia and come home with nothing ?

I was there 20 years ago, got a union laboring jog. $1500 after tax a week. Was living with lads working in bars. My wages was more than there 3 combined. If you claim to be there 20 years (2 of ye) and can't make money ye might as well give up

mykrodot

Most of the advice here is NOT to allow your brother, his wife and his child move into your house, a solid 90% I'd say.

If you (like me) enjoy living alone and like your privacy do not allow anyone else in the family to tell you what you should do or not do for your brother. If they were together for 20 years before they had a child and now that child is 3 they must be close to 40, certainly late 30's? Surely they don't need support with one child?

My daughter moved home from Vancouver 4 years ago with a baby and a husband. They moved in with mother-in-law for about 2 months, and those 2 months were difficult especially with an 18 month old! After that they rented a small place while they bought an old house and renovated it. They always had a plan, and husband had a good job and works remotely. 3 years later, a lovely house, 2 more babies and they are totally independent.

My point is your brother and his wife must have a plan, must have savings, must have jobs lined up , must know what they want to do with the rest of their lives. This is the worst time to be moving home with the housing market the way it is! 4 years ago was a doddle compared to now.

Also three year old kids are worse than two years olds in terms of activity and destruction, noise levels, tantrums, non stop cooking and washing. Just don't do this. There will be no peace in your life.

893bet

The brother has has 20 years to buy a house in Australia and failed.

Giving him 6 months in Ireland to find a place……lol not gonna happen.

LambshankRedemption

A few years ago we were to get a new guy on our team and he would be starting on Monday. He flew in on Friday, spent the weekend looking at properties for him, his wife and their 2 kids. Monday lunchtime, still no sign of him so I emailed HR. HR forwarded the email he had sent them. After browsing houses all weekend, he gave up and flew home again. He did the sums and the only places he could find that would be suitable for his family was far beyond his budget and he would not have enough to live on after paying rent.

I signed off on his salary so I knew how much he would be earning. No small sum considering it was security analysis for a bank. That was 4 years ago and rents have only gone up since. This is why I now live in the midlands.

OP, can you ask your brother to have a look on daft.ie before he even looks at flights. He maybe doesn't realise how expensive property has gotten here.

horse7

Even Australians can't afford a house in Australia, many are leaving due to the cost of living, they also have a housing crisis.

Gusser09

It's a tough one OP. You can't just turn around to family and say no without a genuine excuse. In boards land falling out with family might seem trivial but it's not really.

I'd definitely go down the lodger route. You can simply say that you don't have the room then. And make a few pound from the rent a room too.

Your brothers finances are his business. Don't get into it. Offer to help them with lifts to airport and the likes but say you don't have the room.

csirl

As some posters have said , does the brother have a plan?

However, the most important thing to consider is does the brother have the means to move out after a short period of time? If the brother doesnt have the means, then the reality is that he wont be moving out in the forseeable future. What is his plan?

For example, I know two families who moved back from abroad with kids. One from Australia with an Australian spouse. In both cases, the adults were professionals who had no difficulty getting jobs - one had a job before she even arrived. Both sold houses and arrived in Ireland with enough cash to get on the housing ladder here. Both lived with relatives for a few months until the got their own houses.

Seth Brundle

I assume that part of the worry about saying 'no' is the guilt placed on the OP by other family members. The OP should remember that the other family members are not doing anything to assist the brother and his family!

Wanderer78

as others have stated, DO NOT DO THIS! they d still be there in a few years time, offer to help them look for more suitable accommodation, as it can be harder to do so when not actually here, make sure they apply for social housing, and thats it! set the boundary! best of luck

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074079#Comment_123074079

This sounds partially right. There is definitely a large part of the story missing. I would say the cost of living crisis in Australia is catching up with them. Australia is a different kind of country where you have to work hard to make it and the social welfare system is not the same. Australia is a fairly crappy place to live (as is anywhere) without a trade or a very specific profession. Cost of living is high and taxation is high. The grass is painted greener at home.

OP, I am going to tell you your future. If they cross over your threshold you will never get them out and they will need more space. You are going to end up out the back of your in a log cabin to try and preserve your sanity. You are too old to be having housemates or lodgers. These wasters have made no effort to upskill or look for a proper profession. There are NO council houses and they are not being given to new freshly home from abroad. The council are not required to give them a house as long as they have accommodation in yours, Durrrrrr. I do not know what your brothers solution is to HIS problem but it is not your problem to solve it. They are in situation of their own making and they have no initiative to solve the problem using their own resources. They have no ability, no resources, no skills and no intention of finding accommodation once they can crash at yours.

RichardAnd

This thread is actually a good representation of the small instances of chaos that the housing situation has created in people's lives. 20 years ago, the OP's brother would have been able to rent something here, or maybe even buy a place with a little luck. Today, there is simply no accommodation to be had for such a situation.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075726#Comment_123075726

yea its fcuked, and it wont be solved anytime soon either, certainly not this decade anyway, we re already seeing serious social fall out occurring, in the form of significant rise in relationship breakdown, rapid rise in addictions, a rise in particular crimes, etc etc etc

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075737#Comment_123075737

Between this and the mayhem caused by the lockdowns, I've known half a dozen people who are now separated or divorced, and even a few people who are sadly no longer with us. There is a limit to how much stress a person can take, and recent years have put that to the test.

As I've said elsewhere, this is the end result of allowing the people who run the state to face absolutely no consequences for their behaviour.

Baybay

Very reluctantly, I agree with posters who advise against your brother & family moving in without a definite plan for their future.

I was very happy to offer accommodation to family members while their house purchase was delayed. There was no clear end date & instead of the couple of weeks we all thought, it took a couple of months to finalise.

We all got along, tried to accommodate each other without either party suffering & I’m happy to say we are still very close.

However, it helped that we all knew it was finite but towards the end, lack of an exact date became wearing on us all. We all wanted to move on & not have to consider each other. Sounds a bit selfish perhaps but having your own place means you don’t have to check if someone else’s laundry should take precedence or if it’s ok to have an impromptu drinks party on a “school” night. Small things. Frequently though it’s the small things that catch us all.

You know your brother & how he tends to go about things. I’m sure you want to help so maybe before they arrive, may I suggest you set an expectation of what your offer will be. For me, that would include timeframe & financial contributions.

wildwillow

You owe your brother nothing. Don’t even contemplate allowing him and his family move in. What has he been doing for the last 20 years that has prevented him from being a house owner. I presume you acquired your home through your personal efforts and you are entitled to enjoy it.
Read the threads here about accommodation and you can see how foolish it is to give anyone house space. A few months becomes years and it will get more difficult when crèches and schools become a factor.

Living alone is bliss in comparison.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075810#Comment_123075810

our housing issues are extremely complex, but clearly housing policy has catastrophically failed, but our policy makers will never actually admit this, so yes, there is a serious inability to accept this, but we must also accept, we re not the only country current experiencing this problem, something has catastrophically failed on a more global scale, i personally believe its largely to do with our more modern financialised approach, but the reality is probably far more complex that just this….

a lot is actually out of the hands and control of our elected officials and civil servants, although they do play critical parts….

tis messy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075829#Comment_123075829

…again, im still very strongly against leaving them in at all, theres clearly no where else for them to go, and wont be for a very long time, i know of families that will very likely be stuck in the family home for probably over the next 10 years or more, does the op wanna be in this type of situation!

ledwithhedwith

depends on your relationship with your brother , I’d expect him to be staying with his parents though? I’d take mine in no bother but I know he wouldn’t take the piss, so if we agreed 6 months he would stick to it. You should know your own brother and what he is like? Lot of serious me feiners on this thread.

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075837#Comment_123075837

"You owe your brother nothing"

That seems to sum up a lot of peoples attitude sadly.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075876#Comment_123075876

its not necessarily about me feiners, its the fact, everyone knows our housing situation is completely fcuked, and wont be solved for a very long time, this could potential role itself into the 40's, let alone the 30's!

…and if this occurs for the op, and he lets them in, you may say goodbye to those relationships, and possible for good!

…again, offer to help look for suitable accommodation, help them try get onto social housing etc etc, and thats it!

…if that doesnt work, they might have to consider staying where they are until….

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075898#Comment_123075898

the op had literally said they could move in with his folks. If it was me I’d be taking the first block tbh haha

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075892#Comment_123075892

Also a mad statement to make from someone who doesn’t have a clue if he does or not haha

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075810#Comment_123075810

The people that run this country have to face the electorate every 5 yrs (or less). Those are consequences that most other people never have to face in their working lifes.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075956#Comment_123075956

…and the people that 'run the country', dont truly run the country, we ve now allowed much more complex and powerful entities such as the fire sectors, to do so, that effectively dictates policy, and our elected officials just role with it!

tis a mess

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075956#Comment_123075956

Politicians do, but the state is not run by politicians alone. There are legions of civil servants and other bureaucrats who sit behind them, and many of them have enormous influence over policy. These people never face the electorate.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123073648#Comment_123073648

It's pretty common for people who emigrated to move home when there first child gets to school ago. In order to grow up with family.
I think the people saying they should have a support network after 20 years are overlooking the how much harder it is to raise a child without family support.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123073935#Comment_123073935

Are they renting because they choose to, or because they couldn't afford a house.
The is nothing wrong with renting rather than buying, if you are using the money for something else. But after 20 years, you'd need to have some sort of savings other than your pension that you aren't getting for 20+ years.

What do they both work as in Oz?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123076191#Comment_123076191

housing is probably much worse in australia, with average prices heading towards a million in many major cities, theyve successfully wrecked their market to, resulting in the same problems, i.e. people simply unable to save to buy

JJayoo

Very easy solution that will make everyone happy, OP you can move in with your parents and then there will be a free house for your brother and his family and best of all they won't have to pay rent as you will be paying the mortgage, 😀 win win

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123076222#Comment_123076222

Houses are expensive close to main city CBDs. Less so in rural areas. It's highly urbanised and most want to live in citys.
You can't just look at house prices, the earnings are higher, eating out is cheaper, etc.
Plus it's obviously a different currency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075694#Comment_123075694

Cost of living is high is most places that have made it to the 21st century.
Property is high, stamp duty is high, incomes taxes are generally lower and wages higher compared to ireland. Swings and roundabouts

LambshankRedemption

It's pretty common for people who emigrated to move home when there first child gets to school ago. In order to grow up with family.

I think the people saying they should have a support network after 20 years are overlooking the how much harder it is to raise a child without family support.

It's also pretty normal for those people to start planning that move when the child is born. That way they can organise to have a job when they get home, have saved up for the move, have a deposit for a rental or even a mortgage ready to go. It doesnt sound like the brother has done any of that. What do people without family do?

Even Australians can't afford a house in Australia, many are leaving due to the cost of living, they also have a housing crisis.

I understand that, but out of the frying pan into the fire is not really a wise tactic.

chiefwiggum

You say they have hinted at staying with you. Just throw a deaf ear on the hints untill they ask you out right.

You could also hint that you are thinking of selling up and getting a smaller place as you don't need 3 bedrooms.

It's a really tricky one. There is no way I'd want anyone else's kids moving in with me. If you're living on your own I would say it's a safe bet you have nice things around the house. I would be constantly watching what the kid was doing to those things.

Also no fun tripping over the Paw patrol tower in the middle of the night or the vomiting bugs the kid will inevitably get.

The house will be in a constant state of mess with a 2-3 yr old. The amount of stuff that comes with them is crazy.

I don't know where you live but will they get a car or will you have to be chauffeur for them in the long/short term.

As mentioned there is no easy options for them to get accommodation. Everything will be "too expensive" compared to what it's costing them living with you.

What are they going to do if you have friends around who are too noisy and little jimmy can't go asleep.

Then there is the babysitting while they go and reconnect with everyone after coming home. Or they have their friends over to your house while you are there like a spare tool.

I presumed you have worked hard and made sacrfices to get YOUR OWN HOME! You should enjoy it the way you want and don't feel guilty about other people's situations and decisions in life.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123076242#Comment_123076242

See....told you a bright spark would make the suggestion. 😂 😂

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075876#Comment_123075876

Tbh thinking about it, if I was on my own and it was just my brother I would too. This is because the only way it would happen is if his marriage broke down. My brother is an absolute planner so he'd have back up plans to whatever the initial plan was.

Then to top it off he'd absolutely hate living with me so he'd want to be gone ASAP too.

I'm not getting that vibe from this dude though

JJayoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123076292#Comment_123076292

Oh and the OP can come over to the house to babysit any time the brother and wife want to go out OMG it's perfect....and I would guess she's pregnant, another baby to look after such fun for the OP

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123076257#Comment_123076257

They would only start planning as soon as the baby is born if that was always the plan. For many people is it not, and it becomes a dilemma decision when the child is starting school (as it's better to commit to a school system at that point).

Also, only one of these people are moving home. The partner is emigrating, likely for good (or 18 years at least). That was probably not on her radar a couple of years ago.

Their situation is really unknow at this stage. Everyone is assuming they are coming how without two brass pennies. For all we know they are loaded.

HBC08

Maybe a bit off topic but strikes me reading the thread that a lot of people seem to think a housing crisis is a uniquely Irish problem.Many first world countries Ireland, Australia, Canada,S.Korea (off the top of my head as I'm familiar with these,many more countries also) have a severe housing crisis.

More difficult and expensive to buy a decent house in Melbourne or Montreal than Dublin.

If the brother was always planning to come home it wouldn't make sense for him to enter into a 30 or 40 year mortgage.

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123076330#Comment_123076330

that’s fair enough, but I don’t feel like we have gotten much info about OPs brother! Not enough for me to call it as an outright no anyways. Sometimes in these situations you also have to ask yourself would the family member do it for you. The calls to get a different lodger instead are a bit wild imo ahah

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075646#Comment_123075646

He doesn't need an excuse. "No" is a full sentence.

LambshankRedemption

Their situation is really unknow at this stage. Everyone is assuming they are coming how without two brass pennies. For all we know they are loaded.

The OP said they will have to find jobs and they are not the most qualified. TBH it doesnt matter if they are loaded. They still want to stay with the OP. Which would I prefer, my rich brother living with me, or my rich brother checking his family into a hotel for a few weeks. Definitely the latter.

Tbh thinking about it, if I was on my own and it was just my brother I would too. This is because the only way it would happen is if his marriage broke down. My brother is an absolute planner so he'd have back up plans to whatever the initial plan was.

Then to top it off he'd absolutely hate living with me so he'd want to be gone ASAP too.

I'm not getting that vibe from this dude though

I am on my own and if my sister rang me up and asked to stay for a few weeks I would say yes automatically.

Similar to you she would absolutely hate living with me and would want to be gone ASAP. She would only be asking if it was my place or living in a ditch, and actually if it was summer, she would probably be leaning towards the ditch. Similarly, I'm not getting that vibe from this guy.

A number of years ago my best mate and his partner bought a house. The dates didn't line up quite right, so their lease ended before the new house was ready, so his partner moved in with her Mam and he asked could he stay with me and my partner in our teeny weeny apartment. It was about a month in total. We had no hassles, everyone got on. It helped he is tidier than I am.

Why it worked for us: He was working(same company as me as it happened). He arrived with one rucksack. He offered to contribute to bills, and was pretty much on his best behaviour for the month. Still the best of friends, ~7 years later.

Had he asked if he and his partner could move in, it would have been a flat no. The place was too small. Had he arrived with all his worldly possessions, I'm not sure we would have lasted the month. Had he not been working and asked for a loan…

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123076451#Comment_123076451

I genuinely laughed at the ditch comment because that's how it would be with mine too 🤣

yagan

I would have thought the brother and his new family would be more suited to moving in with the parents rather than with a sibling. I know plenty of people who'd love to have their only grandchildren in Ireland rather than in Oz.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123076985#Comment_123076985

The wife might prefer to move into the brothers practically empty house, where she can rule the roost.

Not many women would like to move in with their mother in law.

rowantree18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074508#Comment_123074508

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074508#Comment_123074508

The problem is that once the person/people are in, a timeline to get them out is very hard to enforce. If they don't get jobs, if they don't find suitable accommodation, if, if, if....... . When they're in his house, with kids, it's practically impossible to get them out on a timeline.

As regards moving home for support - as someone who has lived abroad for years and moved home, it's sometimes easier to get support abroad, you're part of a diaspora and people will often help just because you're irish/greek/french or whatever group you belong to. Once they come home, they're just another family.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123077088#Comment_123077088

Yeah, if it were just my brother I'd be glad to help him return and get on his feet here, but a whole family unit is an entirely different dynamic.

I guess when the brother went to oz twenty years ago getting accommodation was easy in Ireland, he might not understand that the squeeze here would probably mean needing something more secure, and I reckon the original poster came on here for opinions as they know that opening the door could mean a lot longer arrangement than is healthy.

I'd be inclined to encourage a sibling to get on a housing list in Oz rather than starting from zero here the ways things are now, and I'd be saying it as the best course for all involved.

notAMember

Really think this depends on your relationship with your brother and his young family. Do you know his wife at all? Have you been to visit them over there, do you know how they live and if you are compatible even for a short time?

20 years is a long time. Are they effectively strangers to you, or do you know eachother well still?

Some people are very easy to live with, and some are not. I know with my brothers, I'd happy let one of them (plus family) stay with me for a few months as they are very easy going. We've visited them and stayed together in apartments on hols etc, but not the others, we'd just bicker endlessly and we couldn't tolerate sharing a place even on hols.

For us the feeling is entirely mutual, so the fact that the brother thinks it might work makes me think you can get on ok together….. I'm wondering what is putting you off? I'd always default to yes for family with this, unless there is something you know that puts you off it. 3 bed house should be plenty of space.

I would charge them rent, the full mortgage is probably fair enough to motivate them to get a job and get out, but not over the top. You can save that money aside then.

road_high

Absolutely not- the brother on his own and paying rent I could consider but not a whole established family. That would turn your life and dynamic upside down in a 3 bed house. The way the housing thing is now you’d honestly never be rid of them

I see sheep

I'd say just tell him they can stay for a set amount of time. E.g. a month.

A month is nothing.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123077356#Comment_123077356

Yip, I have one sibling I get on well and their kids are really chilled, I'd have no problem hosting them if they needed a roof for a few months. But then I've another sibling who is very controlling and I restrict my exposure to them to the absolute minimum.

Edit to say if I was close to a trusted sibling and I wanted to do everything to get them and their family back to Ireland I'd already be making room. However if it was a sibling that I didn't feel too close to, and their partner that I might only superficially know I might go onto an anonymous online forum like boards and ask for soundings to confirm my doubts about a move that could absolutely turn my world upside down in a bad way for an indefinite amount of time.