The extinction of the United States

cnocbui

I'm posting this because I believe it's not an impossibility.

Two former KGB officers have independently alleged that Donald Trump was recruited by the KGB in 1987 when he visited Moscow.  The latest allegation includes the detail that he was given the name Krasnov.  It has been suggested it means reddish and references his complexion.

When Trump returned from Moscow, he took advertisements in several media, criticising NATO.

The US intelligence community believes Russia interfered in the first election in which Trump was elected.  The Mueller report found 200 instances of contact between Trump's campaign and Russia, but insufficient evidence to prove the allegation.

Since leaving his first term of office, it's been suggested that Trump may have had seven private calls with Putin.

In the latest election campaign, Trump was given considerable financial and personal assistance by Elon Musk, through Twitter algorithms, comments of support, personal appearances and participation in rallies.  Federal filings show Elon Musk spent more than $290 million to help Trump get elected.

Prior to this it was discovered that Musk had been in regular secret contact with Putin over a period of 2 years.  He has a security clearance and his company Space X has defence department contracts.

The premise for this theory is that both Trump and Musk are working in the interests of Putin.

The bit that most concerns me is Musk's DOGE team and their actions, which have largely focused on getting physical access to sensitive government computer systems with none of the team doing so having been remotely adequately vetted sufficient to gain the normal security clearances required to access such systems.  Their clearance is Trumps say-so.  Not only has Musk's DOGE team been gaining access to sensitive government systems, they have been copying vast quantities of information from them. Some Judges have ordered them to delete some of the information they have copied but I doubt they have or that there is anyone able to check.

I am not going to go into detail about all the departments computer systems they have accessed and all they have been doing, but here is a link that gives some details: 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/elon-musks-government-dismantling-fight-stop/story?id=118576033

The article is wholly inadequate, because I know there are other systems that have been accessed that are not mentioned, such as the National Reconnaissance Office, which looks after the US spy satellite constellation. 

But an easy search shows that DOGE’s database provides details on the National Reconnaissance Office, the federal agency that designs, builds and maintains U.S. intelligence satellites. Not only are NRO’s budgets and head counts classified, but the prospect of Musk’s tech team meddling in sensitive personnel information is setting off alarms for some in the intelligence community.

“DOGE just posted secret NOFORN info on their website about [intelligence community] headcount, so currently people are scrambling to check if their info has been accessed,” said one Defense Intelligence Agency employee, who requested anonymity to avoid retaliation from senior leaders.

NOFORN stands for “Not Releasable to Foreign Nationals,” meaning information in this category can’t be shared with any foreign governments, international organizations or foreign nationals without specific authorization.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elon-musk-doge-posts-classified-data_n_67ae646de4b0513a8d767112

One of DOGE's most senior employees is a19 year old hacker who calls himself Big Balls and is the grandson of a KGB defector.

Today, the 19-year-old, once known by the online moniker “Big Balls,” is part of Musk’s controversial effort to remake the federal government. He is a “senior advisor” with access to various departments, including Homeland Security, FEMA and the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/21/politics/doge-musk-edward-coristine-invs/index.html

After he had been fired from one company he worked for, he boasted that he still retained access to their systems.  There is lot of suspect stuff about this person, such as him running servers in Russia and selling hacking tools to Russians.

So Musk is letting hackers with dubious ethics have access to some of the most sensitive computer systems in the US. There is some evidence that these people are not happy having restricted access in some cases and have managed to escalate their privileges to enable them to have write access.  In some cases they have managed to get full admin privileges and can do as they wish - plant malware, remove all traces of their actions...

In their letter, lawmakers cited concerns that DOGE staffers used unauthorized servers and unknown AI programs to analyze and store the data.

Hackers have already gotten into the DOGE website.  Their security is lacking.  So what if the various tools they have been using when they get into all these sensitive systems contain malware elements that install back doors into all these sensitive systems they deploy them on, allowing the FSB to infiltrate these systems at leisure?

Trying to think like a sociopath, what would I do? I'd try to Russify the US and corrupt it so that people sympathetic to my country stayed in power for good. That would be plan A and would involve neutralising those who could interfere with my plans, which ultimately is the US military and general populace. The US military possess branches that deal with the legal aspects of their existence and conduct, called Judge Advocates General. Since I might want to use the military to suppress any civil disturbances protesting or threatening my plans, I would not want a bunch of lawyers in uniform telling their colleagues that they can't do that. So the JAGs would have to go.

Current military lawyers and legal experts told Military.com the administration's firings of the Air Force, Army and Navy's top judge advocates general politicizes and sets an alarming precedent for a crucial job in the military, all as President Donald Trump has mused about using the military in unorthodox and potentially illegal ways.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2025/02/24/people-are-very-scared-trump-administration-purge-of-jag-officers-raises-legal-ethical-fears.html

Trump ordered the disbanding and extinction of all JAG offices - Army, Navy and Airforce.

That would still leave the problem of having principled decent men and women currently heading the military who might refuse illegal instructions or take unilateral action to defend the constitution from me, so they would obviously have to go early.

Five former defense secretaries condemned President Trump’s firing last week of senior military leaders as “reckless” and urged Congress not to confirm their successors.In an extraordinary letter to lawmakers on Thursday, the five men — including one who served under Mr. Trump during his first term — asked that the House and the Senate hold “immediate hearings to assess the national security implications of Mr. Trump’s dismissals.”The letter is signed by defense secretaries who served under both Democratic and Republican presidents since 1994: William J. Perry, Leon Panetta, Chuck Hagel, Lloyd J. Austin III and Jim Mattis, Mr. Trump’s first defense secretary.In a purge of the military’s senior ranks last Friday, Mr. Trump fired Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr., a four-star fighter pilot who was only the second African American to be the Joint Chiefs chairman, saying he would be replaced by a little-known, retired three-star Air Force general, Dan Caine. In all, six Pentagon officials were fired, including Adm. Lisa Franchetti, the first woman to lead the Navy; Gen. James Slife, the vice chief of the Air Force; and top lawyers for the Army, Navy and Air Force.“Mr. Trump’s dismissals raise troubling questions about the administration’s desire to politicize the military and to remove legal constraints on the president’s power,” they said in the letter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/28/us/politics/trump-military-firings-defense-secretaries-letter.html

There would be a lot more to plan A as it would be quite difficult, but worth a shot.

It's what my hypothetical plan B might entail that makes this a conspiracy theory.

The main US nuclear missile deterrent is carried on a fleet of Ohio class nuclear submarines whose patrol areas and current locations would be amongst the most sensitive secrets the US has: Not a problem, agent Kraznov just has to ask for thedetails and pass them along.

Plan B takes a while to set up because I have to get my own hunter killer subs into position and tailing every Ohio class sub so they can all be sunk near simultaneously.

Once that's done, we're likely all set.

One evening, just after sunset in Los Angeles, a number of Russian submarines get their orders and close the distance to the Ohio class submarines they have been following, and fire their torpedoes. Simultaneously, a large number of ICBMs in Russia are launched towards the US and their overseas bases like Guam.

Now normally, the launches would be detected by Infrared detectors on a host of various satellites in geosynchronous orbit dedicated to detecting them and sounding the alarm, but thanks to Musk's DOGE hackers and their FSB malware, the alarm never sounds, Shortly before the first warhead reaches the US, the entire US electrical grid suffers a series of catastrophic failures and shuts down. The entire US goes dark, but not for long; miniature artificial suns start winking on to light up every US city, major town and military facility.

There are many tens of millions of survivors, of course, but even when backup generators have kicked in, the computers and communications systems all fail to work. No organised and coordinated relief effort to help the survivors ever happens because the vital systems needed all fail to work.

The US is no more - the betrayal is complete. The ghosts of the Trojan's ask themselves how it could happen again, given how famous that bloody horse was?

Canaibh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058399176/the-extinction-of-the-united-states

I think Trump is fighting against the Deep State. He was tricked by them during the covid hoax, unfortunately, but I think he's more aware this time round.

Strumms

the Democrats had a very good president in Obama.. fair, brave, even handed, solid temperament, intelligent but have subsequently shît the bed.

Biden… a bumbling, fumbling senile old lad who exited last minute.. “ I’ll run again…I won’t run again, I’ll run…where now ? “ had trouble finding his way out of a room and down aircraft steps ffs. A disaster.

Hilary Clinton… just unlikeable with more skeletons in her closet than a house of horrors.

Kamala Harris… an under performer even massively so amongst young black American communities.

So a massive catalyst in Trumps success, is basically the Democrats dropping the ball big time.

Too concerned about gender / race and identity politics. The first xxxxxxx president of the US…. Don’t be worrying about the first whatever, bôllocks. The only first that matters is in the race to be president….just give someone that people will want to vote for, not someone who you think they should vote for..

Cheerful S

There are a lot of anti Trump activists who can't accept that not everyone hates Russia. Would it be realistic for Trump to be recruited by the KGB, and would that communication be able to elude the attention of the western intelligence services for a period of 30 years? I believe Trump bases his whole identity on his business capabilities, so to me, it is obvious he would look at Ukraine as more of a burden to cut what can be cut from the country.

As a matter of fact, he was even willing to give Ukraine some security by letting them hand over raw materials to the US. Certainly that does not make him a puppet of Russia. It is safe to say that Russia does not want to have mercenaries from the west guarding any of Ukraine's sites inside the country. As an opportunist, Trump sees everything as an opportunity to conclude a business plan and nothing else.

In spite of the fact that nothing has ever been made public with strong evidence that Donald Trump is a spy, it seems that this is just a propaganda campaign pushed by people in the media and elsewhere to explain his non democratic party view and European view.

There is attraction for Trump to eastern European women; he married two of them. Maybe he is more informed about that region than people think. There was no doubt that he saw it as a business opportunity, since his mind works in this way on all things, and not necessarily as the direction that he has received directly from foreign intelligence agencies. Why does nobody claim he's a mossed agent if they think this easily recruitable?

My opinion is that Donald Trump is who he is. I believe that he is a man on his own who has decided that many countries are taking advantage of the United States and have caused an insurmountable debt problem. There was a great deal of blame to be put on different administrations and it was a foreign policy goal for decades, but it is never too late to make a revolution. Trump has decided to intervene in a way that is likely to upset lots of people along the way because he is not a bought politician, but has been doing things on his own for decades now.

There is no guarantee that his revolution will not be a total disaster, but it is clear that he will bend over backwards to accomplish it with the republican party on board as well

Trump a spy is the stupidest take ever. I believe that narrative will continue to be used because what he is doing is unbelievable to people who see Ukrainians fighting the greatest evil on earth the Russian state.

Trump, as I said earlier, is judging everything according to what he can gain from it and how it will benefit the wealth of the country. If you listen to Trump, he does not believe things war is good for business, but he will only associate with it if there is something he can gain from it. There you have it. That's who you're dealing with.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123232038#Comment_123232038

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to the deep state.
It’s the perfect bogey man for the Trump bros, any civil servant they don’t like that is fired is giving it to the deep state. Something goes wrong, the deep state is more powerful than we thought. It has the added bonus that there will be a lot of people to lap it up.

Hodger

Someone posted a similar like minded question on Grok for an analysis.

https://twitter.com/jeffreymlevy/status/1897013490067685745

This is the full analysis.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/WQepvCpIJl2EJ0F7tHNbLAhm6

beachhead

The fall of the american empire has been predicted for a while.20 years or more?

Collision of Power by Martin Baron;How Democracies Die by Steven Levitsky & Daniel Ziblatt.The more recent.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123232701#Comment_123232701

Interestingly, I posed the same question to Chatgpt just now and it came back with 40-50%.

The question of whether Donald Trump is a "Putin-compromised asset" is complex and speculative, and there isn't definitive evidence to support this claim. However, I can offer an analysis based on publicly available information and key events since 1980, focusing on Trump's public statements, actions, and relationships, especially with regard to Russia and Vladimir Putin.

1. Trump's Praise of Putin:
   • Throughout his political career, especially during his 2016 presidential campaign and time in office, Trump repeatedly praised Vladimir Putin, often calling him a strong leader and even suggesting that he respected Putin for his ability to maintain power and influence.
   • Trump’s rhetoric, especially regarding Putin, was seen by critics as unusually deferential. For example, during the 2016 campaign, he called for better U.S.-Russia relations and suggested that the U.S. should not be adversarial toward Russia.
   • He consistently refrained from criticizing Putin directly, even when confronted with the Kremlin’s actions, such as its involvement in the 2016 U.S. election interference or the poisoning of political opponents.
2. Russia’s Interference in 2016 U.S. Election:
   • The U.S. intelligence community concluded that Russia interfered in the 2016 election with the aim of supporting Trump’s candidacy. Trump, however, often downplayed these findings, including dismissing U.S. intelligence agencies' assessments and sometimes questioning the validity of Russian interference.
   • Trump’s reluctance to confront Putin over this interference led to criticism that he may have been too close to the Russian leader or unwilling to criticize him in a way that would align with national security interests.
3. Trump's Business Ties to Russia:
   • While Trump's business dealings with Russian entities or individuals have been widely reported, the exact nature of these ties is complex. It’s known that Trump sought to build a Trump Tower in Moscow during the 2016 campaign, but the deal never materialized.
   • Several individuals with connections to Russia, such as Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, and others, played significant roles in his campaign, leading to scrutiny of potential Russian links.
   • However, there is no definitive evidence that Trump personally benefitted from Russian financial dealings, though this remains a point of controversy and investigation.
4. Trump’s Stance on U.S. Allies:
   • Trump’s foreign policy often focused on undermining traditional U.S. alliances. He openly criticized NATO, attacked European leaders like Angela Merkel, and sought to disengage from various multilateral agreements.
   • This approach contrasted with his treatment of Russia, where Trump seemed more conciliatory. His dismissal of Russia’s actions, such as the annexation of Crimea or its military interventions in Ukraine and Syria, stood in stark contrast to the U.S. government’s official positions.
5. The Mueller Investigation:
   • Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election did not find evidence that Trump colluded with the Russian government. However, the investigation highlighted numerous contacts between Trump’s campaign and individuals with ties to Russia.
   • Mueller did not exonerate Trump on the issue of obstruction of justice, leaving that question unresolved.
6. Public Perception and Analysis:
   • Many critics believe Trump’s behavior toward Russia and Putin suggests a possible compromised relationship, even if direct evidence is lacking. However, there’s also the argument that Trump’s behavior can be attributed to his own unique approach to foreign policy, which prioritized personal diplomacy and often sought to undermine traditional U.S. alliances.
   • Some analysts believe Trump may have been motivated by a desire to shift U.S. foreign policy away from established norms rather than being an asset or a puppet of Russia.

Conclusion:

Given the publicly available information from 1980 onwards, the question of whether Trump is a "Putin-compromised asset" is highly speculative. However, based on his actions, rhetoric, and failure to criticize Putin despite numerous controversial Russian actions, a significant number of analysts might place the likelihood of some form of undue Russian influence or closeness at a moderate level—though not necessarily to the extent of being a "compromised asset."

If I had to quantify this, based on available evidence, the likelihood might be somewhere in the 40-50% range. This represents the possibility that Trump’s behavior toward Russia and Putin could be influenced by factors such as personal business interests, geopolitical strategy, or even flattery and admiration, without definitive evidence of active compromise by Russia. However, a full assessment would depend on more concrete evidence, which has yet to surface.

It's important to note that this assessment does not imply certainty, and the question remains largely unresolved within the public discourse and investigations.

NIMAN

So Trump is trying to destroy the USA by focusing on them, adopting an America first policy and plundering other nations for their valuable raw materials?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234337#Comment_123234337

'America First' is just a buzz term - what he's actually doing is severly impacting America in a negative way.

Burning bridges with long standing historical allies.

Enacting tarrifs which are going to severly impact American citizens.

Allowing DOGE to access secret systems, to what end?

Plundering minerals in Ukraine also benefits Russia as it's causing a rift within NATO.

And overall, pouring petrol on the societal division in America which could lead to civil war.

'America First' indeed.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234337#Comment_123234337

Always Trump first, this article explains how a crypto bro bought coins which resulted in tens of millions going to the Trump family. He was under investigation by the SEC, now it’s suspended.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/02/28/business/crypto-mogul-trump-coins-civil-fraud-charges

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234337#Comment_123234337

No. Putin is in absolute control of the US - it's he who is instructing Krasnov to do things that not only undermine Ukraine, but undermine and weaken the US even more.

The minerals deal is a complete red herring. It's just meant to make Zelensky look bad. Zelensky was always meant to refuse the deal so Krasnov could vomit his usual unhinged BS to try and make his attacks on Ukraine look justified to the idiots who voted for him. It's pure theatre.

It's all a smokescreen to detract attention from that traitor Musk, while he continues to set the US up.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234337#Comment_123234337

America first except his EO's many been stopped (for now) he seems more focused with outside America.

Hannibal_Smith

Off topic posts deleted. Warnings will be applied to any further off topic posts.

HS

growleaves

Who are the former KGB officers? Is there any info on them

yagan

I don't think he's smart enough to be an actual asset. He just probably sees Putin as a power figure, he was similar with Xi after their face to face.

What's far more scary is that he really is vain, self centred with a world view that doesn't extend beyond his hotels and golf courses.

Charlie Munger in 2012 said Trump's puffery made him unsuitable for presidency, he also reportedly said Trump was stark raving mad although CNN later edited that out.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123235048#Comment_123235048

Yeah, I think he's a malignant narcissist who is still bitter after thinking the last election was stolen from him. He's convinced himself he's a great deal maker and applies this to everything in his life. He probably admires dictators as he would like to get rid of critics, many of his followers like these dictators as deep down they are thugs who like to see people they consider weaker than them get hurt. The rest of the GOP is scared sh1tless of his base, and there is no one else who can ramble for hours on end that will attract a crowd. If his cuts start to effect the base then you might see some Republicans stand up to him.

Musk is just a weirdo with an inflated sense of self worth (his current position helps with pending SEC investigations and subsidies), his cozying up to Putin is weird as Twitter is banned in Russia. At some point his vapor wear empty promises have to catch up with him.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234991#Comment_123234991

https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/02/26/trump-kgb-agent-krasnov/

All here.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234394#Comment_123234394

How then are you going to explain the fact that the English managed to get Zelensky to sign a deal for raw earth materials with them? The English seem to be looking for ways to make sure that they get paid for a long time to come. The peace plan of Trump has never seemed to make clear to me how it will benefit Russia in the long run. There is a question that needs to be answered as to how you get the Russians to accept the idea of western troops guarding the land of Ukraine. The decision to give the javelin anti tank weapons to the Ukrainian military was made by Trump himself so this is not a move that his friends in the KGB would be happy about, if the narrative is to be believed.

In previous speeches, you have heard Trump and his colleagues talking about how BRICS countries were trying to undermine the hegemony of the United States by harming it. There is no way the Ukraine will be a country that will lead the world in the next few decades. The power dynamics and economics of the world are clearly showing that China and Russia are colluding and that the world is going into a more global age in which east and south are growing in power. As a result, when the United States is enmeshed in a conflict that is taking a different path than that which will lead to a win, how will the United States counteract it? It is clear that many in Europe still believe that the Biden vision can be achieved, but nobody is actually showing in tangible terms how this victory can be achieved when Ukraine is fighting with a much weaker army than it was in 2023

This all is very important information because it assumes that Russia is in a weak position that requires Trump to help them, which clearly isn't the case. It has never been mentioned anywhere on record that Russia would accept a west-led ceasefire in Ukraine.

Despite the fact that the Europeans have the false impression that Russia has no friends, it has very powerful friends in the BRIC nations

Russia can take America or leave it, and that's why I don't think Trump is as useful as some on here think he is. The truth is that Trump clearly sees great powers trying to undermine them and that the Ukraine is not going to fare well against Russia, and he loathes being on the losing end of a fight. That is why Trump is all about bullying to get what he needs by putting pressure on people to get what he needs to win. This is the kind of fight that Trump wants to walk away from before things go horribly wrong, and of course he would be happy if he gets some money along the way

It is unfortunate for Trump that the last administration got Europe to think that Russia armies would be rolling across Europe instead of stopping in Ukraine, which is utter nonsense by the way since all European powers would nuke Russia in a scenario like that.

The United States could lose its power in the world if this war continues because they have thrown everything they have at Russia through NATO and still have not managed to knock them out of the country. It is not entirely clear how a victory by Russia would benefit American hegemony if they are still looking at Russia as the enemy. The truth may not always be accurate and you might not always like Trump's methods, but there is no doubt that continuing this war could end up ugly in a very negative way if it isn't stopped. There is nobody in their right mind who wants the western powers to confront the Russians in Ukraine. If you think that brings victory, then you are in a different dimension of reality than the rest of us.

In my opinion, it is funny that most Europeans never really get to the point of asking what the next step would be. Those who want total victory against Russia and those who are crazy enough to do so, go ahead and go ahead. Just hope that all anti-Russian posters are ready to face the consequences of the world powers going at it head on. The opinions and viewpoints in a forum can get very real very fast if the leaders act on them.

greentreetop

A new strain of TDS has been found in the wild, if Snopes says its true it must be!

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123234394#Comment_123234394

I assume cnocbui that this a wind up. Putin is barely in control of his own country and is stuck in stalemate in eastern Ukraine for almost 3 years and had to plead for help from North Korea just to hold on to what limited gains they have made along the border hoping for a cease fire/peace talks so they may lay permanent claim to it. Putin is not the all powerful leader some commentators in the west would like us to believe, his only weapon of last resort is his arsenal of nuclear bombs and he's too smart to go down that road.

yagan

Trump is a cult, and like all cults the hard core followers can not be reasoned with so they'll get behind everything he decrees, even as it hurts their nearest and dearest as they've already decided it's all part of a bigger plan for the good.

It's actually more comforting to think him a Russian spy, because a cult leaders ambitions can be more than earthly territoriality.

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123233057#Comment_123233057

…………and the end of the world has been predicted umpteen times over the last thousand years. The fact is that the USA is more powerful now that at anytime since world war 2. The current Ukraine NATO / Russian war has shown the world how weak, backward, amateurish and unprepared the Russian army really is. Since the fall of communism/USSR Russia is just a shadow of it's former self and it will take their army and indeed economy decades to recover form the current war. We may even see further break up of the country as more ''states'' will seek independence.

China is America's only nemesis and will be for decades.