Towing - cannot understand limit

Peppa

I have a 2012 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso. Diesel. 6 gears. This is the only label I can find. Can someone please tell me what I can legally tow as when I try calculate it, it seems awfully low and when I Google it tells me higher. And when I Google more I just get conflicting answers.

Calahonda52

my take is that its not given in that shot, you need to get the manual

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUfONU0csLY

Calahonda52

https://towcar.info/GB/towing-advise.php?merk=Citroen&serie=C4&utm

Peppa

Thanks I keep getting 850kg which is awful!!

dory

What size engine is it? Mine is 1.6 and I can tow around 1100kg.

ted1

what type licence have you ?

https://www.ndls.ie/about/cars-and-trailers.html#can-i-tow-a-trailer-on-a-car-licence

The car might take it, but your licence might not

Alkers

I think you can tow 880kg but you need the manual to explain what rach of the figures is

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123348167#Comment_123348167

What weight do you need?

https://www.rsa.ie/road-safety/road-users/professional-drivers/vehicle-safety-legislation/light-trailers/towing-and-vehicle-towing-capacity

Peppa

Trying to figure out what caravan I could tow. Have a B Licence. This is from manual. First set of numbers (UA) is my car but TBH I just don't understand it.

It is a 1.6 diesel, manual gears (6).

Alkers

My other post was correct.

Your Gross Train Weight is 3130 kg (lower than your licence allows (3500kg)).

Gross vehicle weight for the car is 2250kg, taking one from the other leaves 880kg, which is also mentioned in the manual as max braked trailer weight.

You'll only find a small caravan with a gross weight <900kg

Then there's an allowance there that you can further increase the trailer weight by up to 300g but only if the car is fully laden which I think it would really struggle with as it limits you to 1000m above sea level and you'd have some job explaining that to insurance or a garda if stopped.

Calahonda52

The text at the bottom is both important and not all readable but my take is that

Car plus a braked trailer has a max of 3130 what they call GTW

The nose weight is weight on the hitch.

Is car front wheel drive?

If so hitch weigh is important as if you over cook it you will have less traction/steering control

I think Aklers means 300 kg and only if car is not fully laden, as per table below

	A	B
car	1530	1530
car load	720	420
Braked trailer	880	1180
GTW	3130	3130

Calahonda52

	A	B
car	1530	1530
car load	720	420
GVW	2250	1950
Braked trailer	880	1180
GTW	3130	3130

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123351764#Comment_123351764

That makes sense but the text seems to be highlighting the danger of having a heavy trailer and relativity light tow vehicle.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123351819#Comment_123351819

100%

There may also be an axle weight limit which the nose weight will impact

OP: does it have the EGS auto gearbox?

Peppa

I have no idea what gearbox I have except it has 6 gears (cars are not my forte 😕). Bottom line is I need to rethink my idea of a caravan really. Thanks to you all though for taking the time to look this up and comment, I really appreciate all your help on this.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123352596#Comment_123352596

No worries, thanks for coming back.

our overarching thoughts are to keep you and family safe: since its an MPV am guessing it not you +1

post a pick of the gear stick setup

The reason I ask is I have one of these auto gearboxes and am told that it's a faux automatic that doesn't like being overloaded

oinkely

Looks like that particular car has a very low towing weight allowance.

What size carvan / how many beds do you need? You might pick up a caravelair or sterckeman that you could tow with it if you only need a 4 berth. Some of the european brands are a lot lighter than the UK ones.

RiderOnTheStorm

trailers and caravans are different things (from a licence and car weight point of view).

Your car pane says you can legally pull a 'trailer' of 880k . A bog standard driving licence ('B' with no Trailer class added) will let you pull 750kg

However, a caravan is not a trailer (for cultural reasons) and you can pull a single axle caravan larger than 750kg as long as your car is rated for it.

Short answer: you can pull a 750kg trailer or an 880kg single axle caravan (with that car on a B licence)

880kg is an ok size caravan. They are very light……

Peppa

Picture of gearstick below.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123356558#Comment_123356558

No idea what your on about here, there's no difference legally between a caravan and any other trailer when it comes to towing.

Any trailer below 750kg doesn't count towards the gtw, you can tow a 750kg trailer behind a 3,500kg van on a b license.

Otherwise b license covers up to 3,500kg vehicle and trailer combined.

RiderOnTheStorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123361177#Comment_123361177

that info came directly from a garda sergeant in the roads policing …. there is a difference.

oinkely

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123362877#Comment_123362877

I don't see any differences in the ROTR etc - trailer is a trailer. The only specification is the weight and whether it has brakes or not.

For the driving test you cannot use a caravan, as the spec of the tailer is very clearly explained and cannot be deviated from.

If roads policing are applying some hierarchy or differentiation then it would appear that it is not based in law / rules of the road - more on pragmatism perhaps?

For my purposes I was more concerned with legalities in terms of having the towing licence for when in Europe with the caravan, never really had many concerns domestically - which may not have been as misguided as I though if the roads policing crew look differently on caravans to any other trailer.

Towing test was completed anyway so i can hook up and drive off with no worries.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123362877#Comment_123362877

Unless it's in writing it's wrong, garda can be wrong too!

Van Doozy

However, a caravan is not a trailer (for cultural reasons) and you can pull a single axle caravan larger than 750kg as long as your car is rated for it.

I have never heard of caravans being given a dispensation 'for cultural reasons'.

These are the rules as I understand them:

You can tow anything with plated max mass of 750kg on a B licence, provided your towing vehicle is rated to tow that mass.

You can tow anything with plated mass in excess of 750kg on a B licence, but only provided that you meet the following two criteria:

a) Your towing vehicle is rated to tow that mass

b) The combined plated maximum weight of towing vehicle and what you are towing does not exceed 3,500kg

What the things weigh is irrelevant, you work out your legallity by adding numbers on the plates of the towing vehicle / trailer.

Unless it's in writing it's wrong, garda can be wrong too!

The Gardai's own website talks about the 'weight of the trailer being over 750kg'. That is absolute nonsense. What the trailer actually weighs is irrelevant, it's what it says on the plate that matters. I can see why this law is rarely enforced, given the Guards themselves don't understand it.

I totally understand why people are confused by all of this. The messaging is all over the bloody place on it.

To be honest I don't know why more people don't just get the BE licence. It's not that hard or expensive. I did a few lessons and got mine last year. Towing peace of mind for the rest of my driving days!

RiderOnTheStorm

well, it makes more sense if caravan is same as trailer all right. I stand (sit) corrected. As noted in a couple of places above, the gardai can be wrong and / or apply pragmatism as they see fit.

Sorry if my advice added to the confusion .