Kicked out of Gloria Jeans

DukeDredd

jhegarty wrote:

try sending an email to neil@96fm.ie

he is the only man for this sort of thing... if he gets up on his high horse he won't let it go for days...

Wouldn't trust that fecker - it's really difficult to know which side he will take! Maybe in part of the email tell him how great he is or something to up your chances...

seamus

As Fysh says, it's not discrimination based on family status. That would only come into play if you were refused because you had a child.

You can see why they'd do it, but based on what others are saying, the place sounds like a hole. The media route would be good craic.

A coffee house is not "by invitation only" and therefore the argument holds about as much sway as arguing that Mickey Mouse is a real talking, walking mouse that lives three doors down and is a supreme court judge .....

Are you sure? Public houses are not "by invitation only", yet they have the right to refuse admission/service. Exactly the same as a shop has that same right.

Dingatron

Interesting to see the different points of view. I wonder how many defending them have young children in buggies/prams? I think a lot would change their view if they did. Sure they may have a policy but if it's not displayed on view it's not much use. Most people with buggies are aware of the space they take up and park them accordingly. On the otherhand, people without them give you no leaway in shops and on the street. What do you suggest people with buggies do? Maybe shop in buggie friendly shops and only bring your kids for a walk outside of shopping hours.

nesf

Fysh wrote:

"By invitation only" maybe, and I presume you're making reference to the use of "Right Of Admission Reserved" policies (usually denoted by two huge bouncers who'll eat you alive if you try to get in wearing runners, and a sticker saying R.O.A.R. on the wall by the door).

Nonetheless, the comparison stands. Why? Because the kind of selection applied by a bouncer when choosing who is acceptable for the club cannot be based on ethnic, sex-based, or sexual-orientation-based reasons, according to the law. And banning buggies within the store does not fall under any of those descriptions.

Meaning that, as originally intended, the actions of Gloria Jeans are, much like the actions of many a bouncer, annoying and symptomatic of the establishment's attitude to its customers, but not actually illegal.

As far as I am aware, and it has been highlighted above, any shop/pub/coffee place etc, has a right to reserve admission, only public areas to the best of my knowledge are open to all. If a shop decides it doesn't want buggies in their that is the managers right. It will lose them customers, ie ppl with buggies and those that disagree strongly with such a rule. I don't see why people get so worked up about it. There are alot of coffee shops in Cork, with varying levels of whats acceptable. Some put bouncers on the door after a certain time of night (which I agree with).

I think to an extent, that it is unreasonable for people to complain and to get upset about such rules, I can understand why such a small shop would ask that buggies not be brought in there. Especially when the shop does not aim at attracting a family customer base. Now personally I'm not a fan of G.J., I think the place is overpriced and lacks atmosphere, so I don't go in there. I don't think that by choosing an alternative coffee shop that you're going to miss out on much to be honest.

seamus

ding wrote:

Most people with buggies are aware of the space they take up and park them accordingly.

Maybe it's me, but most people I've ever seen with buggies are inconsiderate, obnoxious and just plain rude. Great, you have a kid, and you have to ferry them around somehow, but that doesn't give you a right to force your way down a busy shopping street, hitting people's ankles, leaving the buggy in everyone's way while you browse, glaring at people who you ram into. If you're going shopping, don't bring the child. If it's unavoidable, give yourself some extra time and space - you can't shop the same way that you used to - or else get one of those chest harnesses.

People with buggies get less consideration, because on a busy street, buggies kind of have no place. Unlike wheelchairs, there are viable alternatives to carrying a child in a buggy. I understand that some people are on their own, etc etc, but that's their burden. It doesn't confer any rights on them. By the same token, people who have to take the bus because they can't afford to drive, don't get the right to come into work later, they have to adjust their lifestyle to suit their burden.

Lemming

Fysh wrote:

"By invitation only" maybe, and I presume you're making reference to the use of "Right Of Admission Reserved" policies (usually denoted by two huge bouncers who'll eat you alive if you try to get in wearing runners, and a sticker saying R.O.A.R. on the wall by the door).

No. I'm not making reference to the "right of admission reserved" policies. Nite-clubs are technically "clubs" and therefore admission is by "invitation only". There is a legal difference between the two.....

So, the comparison is about as good as claiming Mickey Mouse is the property of Warner Brothers ......

Apples & Oranges.

Fysh

Ok. So, clarify this for me. Any coffee shop, restaurant, shop or other commercial premises is technically private premises, either owned by the retailer or leased from the owner, with the attendant rights that this confers on them. Yes? This means that it is private property that the retailer is choosing to open up to the public, or sections of the public, in accordance with the license received from the city or county council (or, depending on applicability, other state body).

Now, such commercial premises are bound by law to not discriminate based on age, race, gender, or sexual orientation, unless there is some valid legal requirement to do so (eg under-18's can't buy alcohol, cigarettes or porn). There is no requirement that I'm aware of for them to accept all members of the public purely because the law doesn't specifically require them not to.

And this is the point that I and others have made here. It's not discrimination because of children being present (which would indeed be discrimination based on family status); it's the presence of the buggy that caused the problem. So far there's been no convincing evidence to suggest that the store manager was outside the law by enacting and enforcing a policy against having buggies in store.

So. Legally speaking, nightclubs may indeed be considered differently to normal shops - although that in itself is a bit of a joke, since they don't require membership and have no published charter or rules for membership; moreover, you point out that legally nightclubs are "by invitation only", but generally it's only the very popular nightclubs that enforce a guest-list or members-only policy. So in terms of practical implementation, the difference is negligible - and I do think that in any court case, this would be seen as pertinent to this consideration. The legal requirements on both types of establishment in such general cases are thus very similar, if not the same, insofar as discrimination is concerned.

beer enigma

Remind me never to try Gloria Jeans for Coffee !!

I went into Brown Thomas, cafe Partrick Street yesterday & there was a clothes rail just slightly blocking my pram's entrance to the cafe area - without even asking, two people fromt the cafe shot out and moved it out of my way.......

Guess which one I'm gonna be using next ??

Gloria Jeans should really be highlighted - I not a great Prenderville fan, but I'd love to hear him on the phone to the manager...

parsi

seamus wrote:

Maybe it's me, but most people I've ever seen with buggies are inconsiderate, obnoxious and just plain rude. Great, you have a kid, and you have to ferry them around somehow, but that doesn't give you a right to force your way down a busy shopping street, hitting people's ankles, leaving the buggy in everyone's way while you browse, glaring at people who you ram into. If you're going shopping, don't bring the child. If it's unavoidable, give yourself some extra time and space - you can't shop the same way that you used to - or else get one of those chest harnesses.

People with buggies get less consideration, because on a busy street, buggies kind of have no place. Unlike wheelchairs, there are viable alternatives to carrying a child in a buggy. I understand that some people are on their own, etc etc, but that's their burden. It doesn't confer any rights on them. By the same token, people who have to take the bus because they can't afford to drive, don't get the right to come into work later, they have to adjust their lifestyle to suit their burden.

Hmm.. see this is the thin end of the stick - which group of people are the ones to get everything their own way ?

On roads - motorists want it their way and so what about bikes, pedestrians and motorbikes ?

In Ireland Offline - everyone wants broadband in their back-hole of nowhere even if that infrastructure cost is paid by all users,

In Dublin they want loads of roads even though they are paid for by all of us,

In Knock they want a rail link to Dublin paid for buy us all,

The Dail want longer holidays to take a rest from their hard work,

Before I had kids buggy people drove me spare. Now that I have kids buggy people still drive me spare - they and the old ladies with their trolleybags seem to be the ones who get in my way most of the time. Of course you also have the strollers who seem to think that manners shouldn't be extended to the buggy pusher who is trying to get past.

Somehow I don't think that town should be the preserve of a monocultural, mono-caste, mono-familial situation (made that one up) group of people. People with kids shouldn't have to take on purdah just because other people can't deal with them or realise that for every buggy-pusher who is ignorant there is an unencumbered person who is also ignorant...

parsi

L!aM wrote:

Actually, there is nothing worse than a baby crying, especially if you're trying to drink a cup of coffee.

especially if its your baby and your coffee..but seriously we tend to avoid places if there is a good chance that the kids could be active and brown off other people - so small places are usually out - bigger places where you can hide in a corner but still feel you're in a grownup place (i.e. not McD) are ideal...

GJ LOVER

GLORIA JEANS ROCKSI LOVE GJ .I GO THERE EVERY DAY. AND BY THE WAY THERE IS A SIGN UP CLEARLY SAYING THAT THERE IS A NO BUGGY POLICY. PEOPLE WITH BUGGIES R NOT ASKED TO LEAVE BUT THEY ARE ASKED TO FOLD UP THERE BUGGY IF THEY WANT 2 STAY . I THINK THIS IS REASONABLE AS THE PLACE IS TINY. THE STAFF R NOT TO BLAME THEY R ONLY DOING WAT THEY ARE TOLD AS PART OF THERE JOBS. IF U WANT COFFEE AND HAV A BUGGY WIT U DONT GO THERE . THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER COFFEE SHOPS IN CORK THAT DO ACCOMIDATE 4 BUGGIES.

simu

GJ LOVER wrote:

GLORIA JEANS ROCKSI LOVE GJ .I GO THERE EVERY DAY. AND BY THE WAY THERE IS A SIGN UP CLEARLY SAYING THAT THERE IS A NO BUGGY POLICY. PEOPLE WITH BUGGIES R NOT ASKED TO LEAVE BUT THEY ARE ASKED TO FOLD UP THERE BUGGY IF THEY WANT 2 STAY . I THINK THIS IS REASONABLE AS THE PLACE IS TINY. THE STAFF R NOT TO BLAME THEY R ONLY DOING WAT THEY ARE TOLD AS PART OF THERE JOBS. IF U WANT COFFEE AND HAV A BUGGY WIT U DONT GO THERE . THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER COFFEE SHOPS IN CORK THAT DO ACCOMIDATE 4 BUGGIES.

Right... what are they putting in your coffee?

dahamsta

simu wrote:

Right... what are they putting in your coffee?

Caps Locks.

kensutz

text talk too

M&MsGer

GJ Lover - Are you the owner of the place or something? In regards to folding the buggie up does that mean that people in wheelchairs have to fold up their wheelchair??? I'd love to hear their response to this.
This crap sickens me. I have a four year old and never realised how discriminating so many places (shops, cafes, restaurants etc.) were until I started going out and about with him.
The thing I found was that the majority of places that say “no buggies allowed” sell baby/children’s clothes i.e. Gymboree and/or are "trying" to be family oriented. A buggie takes up less space than a wheelchair so I can only imagine the crap wheelchair bound people have to put up with everyday and to be honest it really p*sses me off.