SF's O Snodaigh 'forgets' women butchered by IRA

Sand

There was an interesting article in the Sunday Independant. Effectively this O Snodaigh guy has called for an observance in the Dail for the 106 women killed in Ireland since 1996, describing their murders as shocking.

Senator Hayes has quite rightly highlighted the hypocrisy of the O Snodaigh acting appalled at these deaths, whilst happily representing an organisation that abducted, tortured and murdered many women and mothers - these crimes are no better than the torture and murder of the victims of John Shaw and Geoffery Evans that O Snodaigh Id have no doubt would condemn unreservedly. Interestingly enough, theyre being reviewed for parole last I heard - I guess they have their own GFA.

The article is below....

JIM CUSACK

A CALL by Sinn Fein's Aengus O Snodaigh for a minute's silence in the Dail to mark International Day Opposing Violence Against Women has been dismissed as an act of stunning hypocrisy.

O Snodaigh referred only to women murdered in the Republic since 1996, and made no mention of any of the women murdered by the IRA during the Troubles. O Snodaigh said the step should be taken in memory of the 106 women murdered in the country since 1996 and in recognition of the ongoing pervasiveness of violence against women in Irish society.

"These statistics are positively horrific and demand urgent action. I am convinced that if these statistics reflected a level of violence directed against any other group it would be treated as a national emergency," he said on Wednesday.

However, Fine Gael Senator Brian Hayes said yesterday: "Aengus O Snodaigh, who is now known to associate himself with convicted IRA members, has no credibility speaking out on the issue of violence against men, women or children. There is a responsibility on all constitutional politicians to take issue against the stunning hypocrisy mouthed by these people week after week. They simply have no credibility when it comes to the issue of violence."

Senator Hayes said that Sinn Fein had still to distance itself from "people who were directly responsible for murdering women from west Belfast", referring to the widowed mother of 10 children, Jean McConville who was abducted from her home by an IRA gang, taken to south Armagh and tortured before being shot dead and secretly buried on Templetown Beach in the Cooley Peninsula.

The list of people killed by the IRA during the Troubles is littered with the murders of women either intentionally or indiscriminately in bombings or shootings.

Among those deliberately targeted and shot dead was the Derry woman, Joanne Mathers, who was collecting census forms during the 1981 hunger strike and was shot in the head by an IRA gunman at the door of a house where she was collecting forms. Mrs Mathers, 25, was married with one young son. Another young mother killed by the IRA was Caroline Moreland, 34.

She was abducted, taken to south Armagh and tortured for almost a week and then taken to a lonely Border road and shot through the head. Miss Moreland, a single mother with a young daughter, was accused of beingan informer by a senior IRA man who was later himself suspected of being an informer.

At the time she was murdered Caroline Moreland was receiving treatment for cancer from which she was unlikely to survive. The IRA team that killed her knew of this at the time. Another young west Belfast woman who was shot dead after being accused of being an informer was Catherine Mahon, 27, who was shot dead in September 1985 along with her husband Gerard.

An IRA team led by the infamous 'Border Fox', Dessie O'Hare, also shot dead a young Protestant woman, Margaret Ann Hearst at her family farm in south Armagh in October 1977.

Miss Hearst, a single mother of a three-year-old girl, had taken up work as a part-time member of the Ulster Defence Regiment. The IRA gang shot her as her daughter was asleep in a cot and then fired shots into the cot, narrowly missing the child.

And the IRA in Fermanagh shot dead a 21-year-old Protestant woman, Gillian Johnson in March 1988 apparently because they wrongly suspected she had become engaged to a young man who had joined the Ulster Defence Regiment. It turned out her fiance had no connections with the UDR.

The IRA unit that murdered Gillian Johnston was led by a woman who later emerged as a member of Sinn Fein. Another young woman deliberately shot dead by the IRA was Mary Travers, the 27-year-old daughter of resident magistrate, Tom Travers, as she and her father left St Brigid's Catholic Church in south Belfast in March 1984. Miss Travers was shot dead by an IRA gang that included a close associate of Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams.

Whilst relatively few politicians have shown the stomach to exspose Sinn Feins moralising for what it is, it is encouraging to see some call a spade a spade. Can Sinn Fein condemn violence when their armed wing is guilty of orphaning McConvilles children? Or can they call for the protection of children when you consider Angela Gallacher, a child shot in her pram by an IRA sniper? Let alone the miracle that saved that RUC womans child from Dessie O Hares brave rebels shooting repeatedly into her cot. The real mystery is how these guys are viewed as electable when theyre more crooked than the love child of C.J. Haughey and Liam Lawlor and twice as vicious. It doesnt say much for Irish democracy.

Villain

Move on man move on

Cork

irish1 wrote:

Move on man move on

Are victims of IRA violence like the McConvilles are expected to move on?

Meh

irish1 wrote:

Move on man move on

Coming from a supporter of an organization that has a murderous obsession with eight hundred years of history, that's pretty funny. I only wish Sinn Fein would move on.

BuffyBot

Move on man move on

As others have pointed out, that's certainly rich.

Villain

Meh wrote:

Coming from a supporter of an organization that has a murderous obsession with eight hundred years of history, that's pretty funny. I only wish Sinn Fein would move on.

Oh they have, open your eyes. Have you not being following events up north for the last Decade???

The SF leadership are as we speak working with Tony Blair's advisors on a peace deal that could see an end to the IRA. Now if you can't see how SF have moved on you really need a bit of educating.

Ok I've been biting my tongue here irish1 but bite it I can no longer as there are two obvious and blatantly obvious things standing out here that I feel I must comment on.

Whats wrong with the victims prior to 1996 being commemorated or mentioned by Mr O' Snodaigh??
They are people too as are their surviving families, brothers , sisters, wives kids.

It looks like a deliberate ignorance of them because the IRA was involved.
The 1996 timeline is blatantly obvious.

And as for your move on comment,I seem to recall you being on this very forum not that long ago saying you could never forgive Michael Noonan for his actions in a certain court case relating to Blood transfusions and the states culpability.

How in all fairness can you ask people to move on when you have an inability to do so yourself?
After all your feelings must be at least as strong given the way you expressed them here as the widows and orphans of the NI troubles, yet you wouldnt forgive and forget there.

Villain

Earthman wrote:

Ok I've been biting my tongue here irish1 but bite it I can no longer as there are two obvious and blatantly obvious things standing out here that I feel I must comment on.

Whats wrong with the victims prior to 1996 being commemorated or mentioned by Mr O' Snodaigh??
They are people too as are their surviving families, brothers , sisters, wives kids.

It looks like a deliberate ignorance of them because the IRA was involved.
The 1996 timeline is blatantly obvious.

And as for your move on comment,I seem to recall you being on this very forum not that long ago saying you could never forgive Michael Noonan for his actions in a certain court case relating to Blood transfusions and the states culpability.

How in all fairness can you ask people to move on when you have an inability to do so yourself?
After all your feelings must be at least as strong given the way you expressed them here as the widows and orphans of the NI troubles, yet you wouldnt forgive and forget there.

I'l take that to PM.

The Corinthian

irish1 wrote:

I'l take that to PM.

Oh no, we'd all be very curious to see how you intend to justify your position.

Villain

The Corinthian wrote:

Oh no, we'd all be very curious to see how you intend to justify your position.

It's personal and not something I'm willing to discuss in a public forum. But I will say that I have voted FG in the past and may do so in the future so I have moved on.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

Now if you can't see how SF have moved on you really need a bit of educating.

Educating by whom? Ferris & Adams or a IRA gang wielding baseball bats?

There is even talk that the IRA plans to award a special medal to all volunteers who have done active service for the organisation since 1970. Some of the reports say that the medals are minted already in bronze with a green flag and featuring a depiction of Cuchulainn.

Sinn Féin taxes our tolerance sometimes. For years the party has wanted to be taken seriously as a potential government partner north and south of the Border. However, at the same time it also wants to be free to pander to its own community (and make a few euro) by linking its websites to online stores for 'Sniper at Work' and other IRA paraphernalia.

We are repeatedly subjected to Sinn Féin talking in human rights-speak about the disadvantaged and oppressed but they also expect us to turn a deaf ear as they talk to their intimates about special medals and commemorations for those who have committed murder and mayhem.

Irish Examiner

Fair play to the Irish Examiner

The Corinthian

irish1 wrote:

It's personal and not something I'm willing to discuss in a public forum. But I will say that I have voted FG in the past and may do so in the future so I have moved on.

So what you’re essentially saying is that you are defending a seemingly hypocritical position for reasons that you will not publicly discuss, but that we should trust you that it all makes sense?

That’s right up there with “I promise I won’t come in your mouth” :rolleyes:

Nonetheless, if a personal experience were to cause you to support such a seemingly hypocritical position, it still would not imply that this personal experience alone would justify a similar reaction by everyone. The bottom line is that the practically impossible to defend an organization, that largely justifies its position on the basis of historical redress, by suggesting that people “move on” and forget the past.

Villain

The Corinthian wrote:

So what you’re essentially saying is that you are defending a seemingly hypocritical position for reasons that you will not publicly discuss, but that we should trust you that it all makes sense?

That’s right up there with “I promise I won’t come in your mouth” :rolleyes:

Nonetheless, if a personal experience were to cause you to support such a seemingly hypocritical position, it still would not imply that this personal experience alone would justify a similar reaction by everyone. The bottom line is that the practically impossible to defend an organization, that largely justifies its position on the basis of historical redress, by suggesting that people “move on” and forget the past.

I have my reasons, SF have moved on FFS how could anyone say they haven't I mean the DUP have even started to move on, get with the imes people, the IRA is near being ended, SF is near powersharing with the DUP now if anyone thinks that either of those could have happened without SF and others moving on your very very much wrong.

Johnny_the_fox

irish1 wrote:

I have my reasons, SF have moved on FFS how could anyone say they haven't I mean the DUP have even started to move on, get with the imes people, the IRA is near being ended, SF is near powersharing with the DUP now if anyone thinks that either of those could have happened without SF and others moving on your very very much wrong.

tbh irish1 - this thread is about O Snodaigh's comments - nothing to do with the recent happenings in the north.

Villain

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

tbh irish1 - this thread is about O Snodaigh's comments - nothing to do with the recent happenings in the north.

I agree but others seem to want to talk about my post.

Hobbes

At one time FF / FG both had IRA ties. How long before people move on? Its one thing asking for justice, its another lashing out at everyone. Its crap like that, that keeps this thing alive.

somechick

I agree, we should get back to the point in hand which was originally O'Snodaigh's comments on domestic and violent abuse against women.
I reckon anyone who would rather spend time arguing the point of his past is someone who hasn't moved on. This was a completely separate matter and irrespective of his past involvement or participation in any way with the IRA, the fact that he made a statement in the first place should be the focus point....No??

Villain

The Corinthian wrote:

So what you’re essentially saying is that you are defending a seemingly hypocritical position for reasons that you will not publicly discuss, but that we should trust you that it all makes sense?

That’s right up there with “I promise I won’t come in your mouth” :rolleyes:

Nonetheless, if a personal experience were to cause you to support such a seemingly hypocritical position, it still would not imply that this personal experience alone would justify a similar reaction by everyone. The bottom line is that the practically impossible to defend an organization, that largely justifies its position on the basis of historical redress, by suggesting that people “move on” and forget the past.

"Hypocrisy"!! you say what about your support for General Pinochet who ran Chile's regime of rape murder and torture.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=164051

Even the generals daughter is ashamed of it!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4008085.stm

Horeb

irish1 wrote:

Move on man move on

Irish1 it is all easy to say move one, try being one of those families you can never move on, you learn to deal with it but is always there, I wont ever trust sinn fein / IRA why because they are still involved in crime and subersive activity no matter what.

How could we have terrorists in government he have enough problems with the likes of FF without adding petrol to the fire.

The Corinthian

irish1 wrote:

"Hypocrisy"!! you say what about your support for General Pinochet who ran Chile's regime of rape murder and torture.

If you actually bother to read my posts there I was more interested in pointing out the hypocrisy of those who would cry “down with Pinochet” while also crying “hands off Castro” - even though the latter has most likely been responsible for far greater brutal oppression.

But let’s not let all that get in the way of your attempt to change the subject, shall we? So why don't you answer the topics at hand instead of attempting to squirm out of them?

bonkey

Why don't you all just get back on topic instead?

jc

ionapaul

All we need now is Redleslie2 to make this little re-union complete! Or we could go back to the topic of the thread, O'Snodaigh's comments...*

*all we need now is Arcade to turn up and change the subject to Cheychna

billy the squid

What happened in 1996 that makes the women who died before that less worthy of remembering by the sinn fein party. and what about the men and children who died.

should sinn fein forget them if they died before 1996.

Redleslie2

ionapaul wrote:

All we need now is Redleslie2 to make this little re-union complete! Or we could go back to the topic of the thread, O'Snodaigh's comments...*[/SIZE]

Heh, well actually I was thinking about mentioning the meatgrinder that is Iraq and the stuff people (like the starter of this thread) come out with to support, sanitise and justify it. But I can't be bothered really.

Villain

The Corinthian wrote:

If you actually bother to read my posts there I was more interested in pointing out the hypocrisy of those who would cry “down with Pinochet” while also crying “hands off Castro” - even though the latter has most likely been responsible for far greater brutal oppression.

But let’s not let all that get in the way of your attempt to change the subject, shall we? So why don't you answer the topics at hand instead of attempting to squirm out of them?

Oh I read your posts in that thread, you were the one that bought Castro up btw.

Change the subject lol, your a good job of that on your own. As for answering questons at hand I always do.

Sorry Bonkey this is my last post off topic, but isn't interesting that no-one posted here before I said Move on!!! Just something worth noting.

cdebru

what about the number of men and children killed in that timespan

especially that poor guy who was hammered and stabbed to death and whose wife got away with mansalughter
it's not just women who suffer from domestic violence and one group of victims should not be held up above others as more innocent or deserving of sympathy
you would think that Sinn Fein of all people would recognise this
i guess it is easier to be PC

The Corinthian

irish1 wrote:

Oh I read your posts in that thread, you were the one that bought Castro up btw.

Yes - to highlight what I believed to be hypocrisy. Something I’m doing here also.

Sorry Bonkey this is my last post off topic, but isn't interesting that no-one posted here before I said Move on!!! Just something worth noting.

Why don’t you respond to the previous points then regarding the apparent hypocrisy of your “move on” defence then, rather than make further attempts to defend your own change in topic?

Villain

The Corinthian wrote:

Why don’t you respond to the previous points then regarding the apparent hypocrisy of your “move on” defence then, rather than make further attempts to defend your own change in topic?

LOL your going around in circles, my position is clear, SF have moved on and I think those that continue to bash SF here should do the same.

Not brain science Corinthian.

bonkey

bonkey wrote:

Why don't you all just get back on topic instead?

Apparently this wasn't a runner.

Oh well.

Thread closed.

jc