United Arsenal Tonight (will contain scores)

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First of all, can we keep it civilised? No flame war, no personal insults, just pre and post match analysis. Yes, I realise for some it will be difficult, but try and think before you post in this thread, and everyone will be happy.
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Now on to the game.

Obviously it is the Carling Cup, so it is not as important, but it will show how the non-regular players from each squad compare to each other.

United have a more experienced second string, including World Cup Winner Kleberson TM.

Alan Smith, Tim Howard and John O'Shea should all feature also.

Having said that, the Arsenal kids look to be a very exciting prospect, full of skill and tricks.

However, they will be playing in front of a sold out Old Trafford, who will be baying for their blood, very intimidating.

Tonights Old Trafford crowd will be more vocal than usual, as they won't be the usual season ticket crowd.

Anyway, I'm going for a United win, probably in Extra Time.

The Muppet

seansouth wrote:

First of all, can we keep it civilised? No flame war, no personal insults, just pre and post match analysis. Yes, I realise for some it will be difficult, but try and think before you post in this thread, and everyone will be happy.
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Now on to the game.

Obviously it is the Carling Cup, so it is not as important, but it will show how the non-regular players from each squad compare to each other.

United have a more experienced second string, including World Cup Winner Kleberson TM.

Alan Smith, Tim Howard and John O'Shea should all feature also.

Having said that, the Arsenal kids look to be a very exciting prospect, full of skill and tricks.

However, they will be playing in front of a sold out Old Trafford, who will be baying for their blood, very intimidating.

Tonights Old Trafford crowd will be more vocal than usual, as they won't be the usual season ticket crowd.

Anyway, I'm going for a United win, probably in Extra Time.

I couldn't agree more on the first part but theres not much ay stake so it will probably remain reaonably civilised anyway.

I won't see the game as I'm working. I would like united to win but I won't be too bothered if they don't.

AthAnRi

It will be a close one, again. Hoopefully What ever goals are scored will be clear cut non controversiol, but then again If they weren't then what would we talk about tomorrow.

Going to the match tonight and am hoping to get a good look at some of the United Youngsters. in Particular, Rossi and Ngalula. Would like to see Pique too but I believe he is injured.

cournioni

I hear Rossi is playing some great football in the reserves at the moment. I think I've posted an mpg of him here some time ago. He looks like a very good prospect alright. I'd love to see him get a game tonight.

Spalk0

Well i wont be at the game but i think i'll take a trip to the pub for this one!Purely because because i wanna see some of the younger players!Rossi ive heard nothing but good things about him, Pique and Ngalula who i hear is similar to a vieira type player!(not sure how much truth is in that but im curios!)
Anyways, its gonna be a very tight game!Not sure about the level of rivalry you'd see in a normal United v Arsenil game but Arsenil themselves have a very good set of youngsters so i aint that confident even though were at home!
Anyways, great excuse to get me out on the beer on a Wednesday!

C'MON UNITED!!!!

AthAnRi

Pornapster, Can't get the link working man.

Just read on the website that Rossi, Pique, Ngalula and Eagles may all start.

Team possibility for tonight

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Howard

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P. Neville

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Pique

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O'Shea

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Spector

Ngalula

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Eagles

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Djembax2

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Richardson

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Rossi

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Smudger

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pickarooney

seansouth wrote:

However, they will be playing in front of a sold out Old Trafford, who will be baying for their blood, very intimidating.

It's crazy to think that Manchester United can sell out the stadium (probably more than once over) for what's essentially a reserve game in a meaningless competition, when the likes of Juventus struggle to get 3 men and a dog watching a Champions' League match against Bayern Munich.

The Rooster

according to sportinglief.com, Pique is injured, Fabregas is rested.

Squads for tonights game, as follows:

Manchester United (from): Howard, P Neville, Brown, O'Shea, Fortune, Fletcher, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, Richardson, Smith, Bellion, Spector, Eagles, Rossi, Ricardo, Ngalula.

Arsenal (from): Almunia, Wright, van Persie, Flamini, Senderos, Pennant, Clichy, Hoyte, Cregg, Djourou, Larsson, Lupoli, Owusu-Abeyie, Simek, Karbassiyoon, Smith.

mr_angry

IIRC, Jamie Smith is still injured from the last Carling Cup game against Everton. It'll be interesting to see how Hoyte and Sendros perform. Hoyte will most likely be filling in for Lauren in the near future (while he's suspended in the Champions League), and with a bit of luck, or common sense, Sendros should soon replace Cygan as Campbell's understudy.

Boro

Its strange to see how much more recogniseable the ManU reserves are than the Arsenal.

Is it that MU have crappier kids? Most of MUs team are older than 20 arent they? Whereas Arsenal's team are mostly under 20?

Saw somewhere that that Lupoli fella scored 45 goals in 20 reserve games last season in Italy, and that Karbassiyoon guy scored 6 against wolves reserves recently.

If they dont get intimidated (read: flattened by phil neville) then they will give the ricketty looking defence of MU a real battering.

Its all about Morale though I think - the Arsenal kids will probably be a lot more fragile than MU who have had lots of experience in the first team.

Any idea who will captain MU? Would love to see Smith get the chance but it will probably be someone like Phil Neville.

WhiteWashMan

you know, i think the arsenal could just edge it.
actually, id kinda ike arsenal to win, because if suprs win tonight and have to play them, they are more likely to play this squad again as opposed to their first team.
i think sir alex may put a few 'ringers' in the squad should it go further

and spurs need all the help they can get!

AthAnRi

I have a feeling it will be close and could go to Extra time. Arsenal may very well shade it but it all depends on the team united throw out. If Alex wants to try to beat Arsne with his band of youngsters then I feel it will go to Arsenal but I think if United field their more experienced reserves like O'Shea, P. Neville, Smith etc then they could Shade it.

I hope Utd Field their youngsters, really would like to see if they are up for the challenge.

therecklessone

WhiteWashMan wrote:

you know, i think the arsenal could just edge it.
actually, id kinda ike arsenal to win, because if suprs win tonight and have to play them, they are more likely to play this squad again as opposed to their first team.
i think sir alex may put a few 'ringers' in the squad should it go further

and spurs need all the help they can get!

Now now, we're on a one match unbeaten run. Championship form that is...

yop

Hopefully rossi will play, I do wathc the reserves matches and he is a great prospect.
I see that Johnson is not going to be able to stay with United because of visa issues, he played well for the reserves last year.

Reserves or not reserves I still reckon there could be a bit of clippin tonite, it is not the be all or end all but a win would be nice.

BKtje

Also lookin forward to this match. I suspect it will be the Arsenal youngsters vs a mixed (young/reserves/first team subs). Man u should win but those pesky arsenal youngsters did beat a full strength Everton so we shall see.

Either way im looking forward to it.

Spalk0

All depends on which team is on form for me!I have a feeling Arsenils youngersters might have a bit more flair and that to them but it all depends on how they handle a full house old Trafford and the team Fergie lines up!

eirebhoy

Boro wrote:

Its strange to see how much more recogniseable the ManU reserves are than the Arsenal.

The recognisable players in the United squad are not reserve players. United just have much more first team backup than Arsenal.

PHB

Thats the thing about this match, its Man Utd reserves vs. Arsenal reserves, but Man Utd. reserves exist aswell as the youth team, while Arsenal have kinda a reserve youth team, hence why you know them more.

smemon

this should be a good game, better than a REAL manu-arse match as the quality on show will be seen due to everyone's lack of experience, the only way both know how to play is attack.

the arse look slick and crafty from what ive seen of them in this comp. funnily, ive seen more of arsenal in this comp than manu this season. utd's line-up will be well known, its not really an unknown reserve side as most of it will consist of fringe 1st team players.

rossi has been getting rave reviews, i'd like to see him start. very unpredictable game, utd will have more experience than arsenal, that's why id back them especially at old trafford. the arsenal reserve team is the actual reserve team more or less so they wont be used to big matches, pressure, the guts of 70,000 spectators plus the cameras.

jank

I think utd will win this, Id like arsenal to win it but utd's "reserves" (when are howard, p neville and smith reserves?!) will edge it due to experience

eirebhoy

jank wrote:

I think utd will win this, Id like arsenal to win it but utd's "reserves" (when are howard, p neville and smith reserves?!) will edge it due to experience

Howard, Smith and Neville to name a few. There's only about 4 or 5 reserves in the whole Man U squad.

jank

My point is that Utd's team is much more experineced that Arsenal's

smemon

jank wrote:

My point is that Utd's team is much more experineced that Arsenal's

is that a 'get out clause' is arsenal lose. i know this is a 2nd string game but surely both will go out and want to win.

whatever manu line out goes out i certainly wont be happy if utd lose. i assume it's the same for arsenal. its a mickey mouse game so to speak but it's still a huge game. i get the feeling in here people will just say, 'ah sure its only the league cup, we didnt really try' should they lose.

no excuses for the losers lads, may the best team win.

eirebhoy

Didn't take long to get going anyway.

1-0 Bellion after 30 odd seconds.

Gangsta

arsenal will never score, ferguson put out experienced defenders againsta bunch of kids.

Jivin Turkey

smemon wrote:

is that a 'get out clause' is arsenal lose. i know this is a 2nd string game but surely both will go out and want to win.

whatever manu line out goes out i certainly wont be happy if utd lose. i assume it's the same for arsenal. its a mickey mouse game so to speak but it's still a huge game. i get the feeling in here people will just say, 'ah sure its only the league cup, we didnt really try' should they lose.

no excuses for the losers lads, may the best team win.

Its not a get out clause, its a fact. United have a back line of internationals. Not to mention goal keeper behind them.

Im sure both teams are playing to win but United have the experience to carry them home, its been the difference between the sides tonight.

Sure the result of the game is irrelevant really, because Chelsea are going to win the cup.

eirebhoy

I can't get to see the game, any chance someone can let me know how Cregg gets on? Cheers.

impr0v

Didn't see much of him.

Best performance by Miller in a united shirt thus far, though obviously against a fairly lightweight midfield.

PHB

I was impressed with Richardson, Eagles, and Miller.

Very boring game, with no shots on target in the whole second half.

When yoiu watch those games you remember just how good the 1st team man utd and arsenal teams are

smemon

miller deserved man of the match. impressed with bellion also, he worked hard up on his own and showed a great spring at times to win high balls.

thats the way miller played for celtic and it's great to see he hasnt lost that. controlled, calm, all over the pitch and breaking up play at source. he hasnt shown it until tonight in a utd shirt but that's why i think he's ideal replacement for roy keane. his movement and neat,tidy passes reminded me so much of roy tonight.

poor match tbh, but as i said before the match, it wasnt just a nothing game, there was a good bit at stake (pride more than anything else). it would be wrong to belittle utd's win. whilst it was a fairly well known side, none of the starters are regulars, same as arsenal. you often hear sky saying arsenal could field their youths and they'd beat most premierships teams (alan smith in particular). this shows the depth of utd's squad, they can field a whole team that has experience and isnt unformiliar to most of us.

eirebhoy

Well Miller played superb against Crewe aswell, still has to prove himself at the top level.

smemon

eirebhoy wrote:

Well Miller played superb against Crewe aswell, still has to prove himself at the top level.

yeah true but he's proved that at celtic in champions league especially, thats why fergie bought him after all. i think he needs to start regularly in order for him to keep his form up. with giggs out of favour at the minute, tonight will have done him no harm at all. provided ronaldo is switched, miller has a good chance of claiming a regular spot on the right if he keeps that form up. plus he could be played in the centre when roy is rested.

thejollyrodger

there is a lot of if and buts there... Miller played well but Im not so convinced about him being Roy Keanes replacement just yet.

Stephen Gerrard would be good for Utd

BKtje

his movement and neat,tidy passes reminded me so much of roy tonight.

Yer i noticed it as well. Also the way he broke up the play and even his style of tackling reminded me of roy tonight.

I dont wanna start another Man u Arsenal row but was i the only one who thought van persie was lucky to stay on the pitch and than richardson was very hard done by?

Overall a fairly bad 2nd half but the united defence never really looked like being beaten.

smemon

B-K-DzR wrote:

I dont wanna start another Man u Arsenal row but was i the only one who thought van persie was lucky to stay on the pitch and than richardson was very hard done by?

yeah he was lucky allright, a bit of niggle you wouldnt pass any remarks on put kicking out and trying to elbow is out of order.

on a side note, richardson was lucky to stay on the pitch, he made an awful late challenge near the end and sent an arsenal player head over heels, sky never showed the replay but that was a dead yeallow card offence imo, did anyone else notice it??

The Muppet

I only saw a few minutes of highkights. Van Persie was lucky to stay on and The FA may have to look at the incident in the same way as they did scholes last season.
They didn;t show the Incident with Richardson that smemon has mentioned so I can't comment on that. I'm happy that United won but if they had not it wouldn,t bother me too much.

Arsenal were Unlucky to give away such a soft goal so early and it would have been tough for the gunners to come back against such and experienced side, In another thread here we were questioning why Lemon was holding his place in the Arsenal goal , I think we now know why, but to be fair to Alumin or whatever his is he was probably just caught cold.

Bring on the Pensioners.

yop

Ya some good performance, never really troubled us, but same can be siad the other way too as we really only seemed to create the one chance.
Millar really impressed me, Richardson was effective. Djemba + Kleberson was only middling to be honest.
Rossi looked up for it when he came in.

Van Pratsie should have walked, will be intersting to see if David Dein, sorry I meant the FA will look at video evidence, a fine player but he could do without the bad temperment.
It seems to blatant divin and complaining has rubbed off on the arse reserves too.

I thought your man in goal aluminous or what ever his name is did alright, was poor for the goal but was quick off his line.
Good to win again over the arse, hopefully this time next week they will be out of Europe too

Bring on the gimps, not sure about playing the reserves against them though as there could be a lesson taught.

BKtje

yeah he was lucky allright, a bit of niggle you wouldnt pass any remarks on put kicking out and trying to elbow is out of order.

I had to laugh when he elbowed his own player hehe. I was surprised that his team mate didnt go down like a ton of bricks like you normally see happen when someone is elbowed (no matter how hard).

on a side note, richardson was lucky to stay on the pitch, he made an awful late challenge near the end and sent an arsenal player head over heels

Yer i saw this as well, i think he was unbelievably lucky that he did it when he did. The ref played advantage and then blew the final whistle. Seeing as the ball never went out of play he couldnt red card him (if he intedned on it). Personally i believe the ref realised he'd been harsh witht he first yellow and decided to let it be but i cant say that for 100%.

I think it was v. persie he "tackled" btw

Chelsea put out a fairly good squad yesterday so i doubt the youngsters can do it. That said will be an interested match but shouldnt be a problem for Chelsea as Fergie already stated he'd stick with the youngsters. He might throw in Alan Smith etc tho on the subs bench incase Chelsea are building up a rugby score

AthAnRi

Was at the match but only got in for second half thanks to Traffic. Second half was really poor, the Atmosphere was pretty good though. There is a serious bitterness between United and Arsenal, even more so than I thought.

As for the game it was a convincing win against a very inexperienced team. Wouldn't really read too much into it. I could have seen that match in Carrington on a Saturday morning for free.

Chelse will be a different kettle of fish they will be fielding a very strong side in the semi's, not too sure if United will bother. We've never had to much success in this trophy.

eirebhoy

I'm not a Man U fan but I'll be dissapointed if Ferguson plays a stronger team against Chelsea. I want to see how O'Shea (at centre half) and Miller get on against such a good side.

_blank_

I enjoyed watching the game, nice to see the non-regulars getting a game as I don't have MUTV

van Persie was very lucky to stay on the field, and I don't know why Richardson was booked in that incident. Having said that, he himself was lucky the ball didn't go out of play at the end, I'd say the ref would have had him off after the assault on van Persie.

People keep saying that the United back four was full of internationals, fair enough point, but would anyone agree that a back four that does not play together is more liable to mistakes than a back four that does?

I would have preferred to see Rossi get a game, but am glad that Bellion did

Also, it looks like Fergie has abandoned 4-4-2 for any competitions.

dirkey_wynne

I saw that challenge at the end by Richardson, he certainly was lucky to stay on. The commentators noticed it also. Van Persie (a skinnier John O'Shea anyone??) should definitely have walked.

As for the Utd players, I really don't think anyone stood out. Miller was probably best of a bad bunch, but I don't think he's going to be the replacement for Keane that some here seem to suggest. I think his use of the ball is extremely poor at times. Richardson won't make it either - for the same reason. Eagles I'm not sure about - he's shown some good glimpses the few times I have seen him, but some atrocious things too. Need to see him a few more times.

Despite not conceding Howard showed why he shouldn't be in the side. Flapped terribly at an early cross, and then nearly lost out to Van Persie when trying to "do a Barthez". All in all it was a pretty dull game though wasn't it?

445279.ie

From breakingnews.ie

Van Persie set to escape FA punishment
02/12/2004 - 10:23:47

Alex Ferguson’s request for the Football Association to look at Robin van Persie’s alleged elbow at Kieran Richardson is set to be denied.

The Arsenal striker is unlikely to be punished further by the FA for his clash with Richardson yesterday, with referee Mark Halsey dealing with the matter at the time by showing both players a yellow card.

The 21-year-old appeared to elbow the Manchester United winger during the Carling Cup quarter-final at Old Trafford.

“The FA must look at it because the boy threw an elbow,” the United boss said after he match. “I asked the referee why both players had been booked, he said ’for aggressive intent’ and told me he hadn’t seen the elbow.”

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger admitted he considered taking van Persie off after the clash.

“I did fear it was going to be worse than a yellow card, it could have been,” the Frenchman said.

“Robin shows great potential but he must also learn to keep his nerves under control and not get over-excited. I considered bringing him off because he was involved in some heated moments.”

David Bellion’s first-minute strike ensured a 1-0 victory for the home side.

SteM

This doesn't surprise me, it doesn't warrant the FA looking into it. It was a skirmish that happened but it was nothing really, just looked a worse on TV than it was.

Van Persie has looked good to me in other matches but wasn't up to much last night, but then he was tackled quite hard (but mainly fairly) by some United players. This is something that he needs to get used to if he's going to reach his full potential.

woosaysdan

miller looked good at times but there were times when he was in front of goal and should of had a shot but instead tried to thread a pass into the box he also threw in a few bad tackles!!! i was very impressed with richardson, he showed great pace and always looked very threatening with the ball. i expected more from v. persie tbh, i havnt seen much of him play from what i heard he is meant to be a class act!!! he just needs to watch that temper!!! as for the elbow thind in fairness it was 50 - 50!!! they both were at it all night!!!

BKtje

For me an attempted elbow is dangerous play and fully deserves an investigation.

The Muppet

SteM wrote:

This doesn't surprise me, it doesn't warrant the FA looking into it. It was a skirmish that happened but it was nothing really, just looked a worse on TV than it was.

Personally I accept that things like that happen in the heat of the game and should not merit further action. That said near the end of last season Paul Scholes received a ban from the FA for a similar "offence" so if the FA are to be impartial and consistant then they should at the very least investigate.

BaZmO*

I thought the match was alright'ish. I tended to get a bit fustrating at times due to the fact that both teams lost possession so easily, too much showboating, i.e. trying to do too much with the ball instead of going for the easy pass. But I suppose with most of them being so young they were just been over eager.

With regards the Van Persie incident. Everybody seems to agree that he did throw the elbow out hitting his own man in the face with his left hand and catching Richardson in the chest with his right arm. It was quite cynical as you could see VP looking over his shoulder to see where Richardson was before he lashed out.

The one part of the incident that nobody seems to have mentioned is when he kicked out at Richardson. He was quite clever in the way that he done it as he fell to the ground making it look like he was wronged. For that alone he should've been booked.

I can't understand why the referee booked Richardson for agressive behaviour aswell, because he was pushed away form the incident by Flamini as he came charging in.

The way I see it is that if the referee felt that he had to punish both players he should've given VP a more severe penalty than Richardson, i.e. a red card for VP and a yellow for Richardson or a yellow card and a warning to the respective players.

B.

impr0v

Miller needs to work on his tackling. Quite a lot of it was decent and he was more than eager to put himself about, but he has his hands on the player more often than not, trying to drag them back or hold them. It's something a ref can get tired of pretty quick.

mr_angry

Apart from the goal (which was a defensive shambles in every way imaginable), there wasn't much between the two sides. I was surprised at the United tactics of blanket defending in their own half, but it certainly worked, although I can't help thinking that it may have diminished the game as a spectacle.

Some of the more senior players on the Arsenal team really disappointed me. Van Persie seemed more interested in getting himself sent off than playing football, and Jermaine Pennant was just plain crap. Quincey tried to amuse himself with trick after trick after trick instead of just playing a simple pass. I was impressed by Phillipe Sendros and Gael Clichy at the back though. Sendros managed to recover from a couple of slips and people going past him - something that you could never imagine Pascal Cygan doing.

Lupoli and Larsson also looked promising, although Lupoli was far too interested in getting himself a penalty, which is something you don't like to see.

smemon

eirebhoy wrote:

I'm not a Man U fan but I'll be dissapointed if Ferguson plays a stronger team against Chelsea. I want to see how O'Shea (at centre half) and Miller get on against such a good side.

yeh i agree. that side has taken us this far so it shouldnt be replaced now by the 1st 11. over 2 legs, it would be very tough for united's 2nd 11 to beat cheslea's allstars but on their day they could give chelsea a game.

i dont think that game really showcased utd's youngsters tbh like eagles, richardson etc.. they id allright but looked like schoolboys. over 2 legs against a good side we'd get a much fairer indication of how good they are. it was an off day for utd and also arsenal i have to admit, who ive watched quite a bit in this tournament, but i'll not complain.