Ahern does McCabe Killers U-Turn

Cork

Sand wrote:

I hope she sticks to her guns and doesnt allow Bertie a good nights sleep over it. SF/IRA arent going to break the deal over this. They know that if they do all those early prisoner release schemes will come to a sharp end and half their membership will be banged back up in jail. Most of their remaining membership is identified and riddled with informers. Theyre bluffing - a return to war would be a suicide pact for them. Bertie should just ask them if they want to tell their membership theyre going back to jail over a couple of guys who carried out a bank job in Adare, shot a Garda in the back, and just so happen to be IRA men?

Weve got leverage - we shouldnt be afraid to use it.

I agree. I am so fed up of the likes of Adams and Ferris lobbying for the release of these people. As a democratic party they should respect our security forces and our laws.

Hammering out a deal so the the IRA will hand up their gruddy deposits of arms is wrong.

Will the IRA be allowed to keep the financial proceeds of their "war"?

Surely with a settlement - these monies should be handed over to the Criminal Assets bureau?

nlgbbbblth

This is the best news I have heard in ages

why?

1) It makes Sinn Fein/IRA look like they're putting a figurative gun to the government's heads. In other words - will turn people against them

2) It makes Bertie look like a p-rick.

nlgbbbblth

irish1 wrote:

Well I take it that "move on move on" statment was aimed at me.

I have discussed this topic in teh past and really don't have anything else to say, if you want to read the thread here it is: Old Thread

correct me if I'm wrong irish1 but is that an English soccer club you have by your signature?

:rolleyes:

Cork

nlgbbbblth wrote:

This is the best news I have heard in ages.

Giving the likes of these early release is not my idea of "the best news I have heard in ages".

SF should be left lobby for them. Let Ferris, Mary Lou and others jump up and down and demand their early release.

The government should stand up for itself and not leave inself to be rail roaded by threats or other wise.

Armalite and the ballot box policies failed. SF/IRA will not return to these.

billy the squid

cork

I think he meant that it was the best news that sinn fein / IRA are being shown up for their hypocracy.

nlgbbbblth

billy the squid wrote:

cork

I think he meant that it was the best news that sinn fein / IRA are being shown up for their hypocracy.

exactly billy

anything that makes SF/IRA look bad or unpopular and anything that may turn the public against Bertie Ahern gets the thumbs up from me

Phil_321

O.K., I've been saying I support the release of these criminals. I should also say that I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter, I despise SF/IRA just as much as the rest of you. I also think that it's a good thing that no matter what way this plays out it will cast SF in a bad light and cost them votes in the next election.
But while you've been arguing about the legitimacy of the IRA as an armed force and whether these guys were on an IRA mission, I think you've lost sight of the ultimate goal here - to bring peace to the North...... and SF have basically told the Taoiseach that these guys will have to be released before the IRA wind up. You think Bertie likes doing this?

marco murphy

Phil_321 wrote:

O.K., I've been saying I support the release of these criminals. I should also say that I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter, I despise SF/IRA just as much as the rest of you. I also think that it's a good thing that no matter what way this plays out it will cast SF in a bad light and cost them votes in the next election.
But while you've been arguing about the legitimacy of the IRA as an armed force and whether these guys were on an IRA mission, I think you've lost sight of the ultimate goal here - to bring peace to the North...... and SF have basically told the Taoiseach that these guys will have to be released before the IRA wind up. You think Bertie likes doing this?

Exactly.Some of you just take the chance of bashing sinn fein....

Cork

billy the squid wrote:

cork

I think he meant that it was the best news that sinn fein / IRA are being shown up for their hypocracy.

They have shown themselves up for years. It is not today or yeterday that that organisation has been found wanting.

.Some of you just take the chance of bashing sinn fein....

I don't - These people should serve out their full sentences. Are SF above criticism?

FF policy is often criticised by FF supporters (for example Ned O Keeffe)
FG policy is often criticised by FG supporters (for example Michael Ring)
Labour policy is often criticised by Labour supporters (for example excluding FF from future coalitions)

Maybe SF being new to democratic politics (not supporting the armalite & ballot box) - finds this concept rather strange..

But on the subject of bashing - We'll hopefully see an end to the IRAs punishment beatings and Kangaroo courts. It is important that the SF/IRA support the police forces both North & south.

marco murphy

Yup,IRA should stop beatings,and let the druggies run around the place.

Pataman

Poblachtach wrote:

Yup,IRA should stop beatings,and let the druggies run around the place.

As much as you like to think the IRA are not the rule of law, let them inform the PSNI and let them deal with it.

marco murphy

And would they deal with it?

BuffyBot

And would they deal with it?

Probably, if they didn't have to spend their time dealing with people shattering the kneecaps of others...

marco murphy

Grannies are turning to the IRA for help.

gandalf

Poblachtach wrote:

Grannies are turning to the IRA for help.

What to get their kitties out of trees :rolleyes:

If Sinn Fein, the IRA were serious about the GFA as they all claim to be then they should get behind the police force of NI and allow nationalists to join without fear of intimidation and they should cease their supposed "policing" via punishment beatings etc.

The problem is that the only way the thugs in these paramilitary organisations will every get respect is with a gun or studded baseball bat to back them up. Without this they are nothing and they know it.

People of this calibre should never have been released onto the streets of Belfast or Dublin. The men who killed Gery McCabe should be left rot in jail for the full terms of their sentences.

ArthurDent

Poblachtach wrote:

Grannies are turning to the IRA for help.

Ah well that's all right then, all is forgiven

Sorry this justifies what? Kneecapping, targetting those whose anti-social activities getting in the way of the IRA making a quick buck - give me a break, if this is your only argument or IRA intervention I think you need to have a major rethink

Capt'n Midnight

from that green book - http://www.irishrepublicanarmy.info/GreenBook.html

All potential volunteers must realise that the threat of capture and of long jail sentences are a very real danger

we do not mount an operation without first having ensured ...., and of course that the operation itself enhances rather than alienates our supporters.

Ignoring the rights and wrongs (this is politics remember) how does getting these two guys released help SF or FF - it's a PR disaster that should be dragged up at every possible opportunity. - The best and only predictor of future behaviour is the past.

http://www.ilrg.com/subject/lawofwar/5proto-protectvictims.html
Geneva Conventions Art 46/47

Art 46. Spies

1. Notwithstanding any other provision of the Conventions or of this Protocol, any member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict who falls into the power of an adverse Party while engaging in espionage shall not have the right to the status of prisoner of war and may be treated as a spy.

2. A member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict who, on behalf of that Party and in territory controlled by an adverse Party, gathers or attempts to gather information shall not be considered as engaging in espionage if, while so acting, he is in the uniform of his armed forces.

3. A member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict who is a resident of territory occupied by an adverse Party and who, on behalf of the Party on which he depends, gathers or attempts to gather information of military value within that territory shall not be considered as engaging in espionage unless he does so through an act of false pretences or deliberately in a clandestine manner. Moreover, such a resident shall not lose his right to the status of prisoner of war and may not be treated as a spy unless he is captured while engaging in espionage.

4. A member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict who is not a resident of territory occupied by an adverse Party and who has engaged in espionage in that territory shall not lose his right to the status of prisoner of war and may not be treated as a spy unless he is captured before he has rejoined the armed forces to which he belongs.

So any IRA members caught out of uniform are not entitled to protection from the geneva contentions if they have engaged in any espionage. Which means they still could be shot as spies by geneva convention signatories.

Villain

nlgbbbblth wrote:

correct me if I'm wrong irish1 but is that an English soccer club you have by your signature?

:rolleyes:

Who have had several Irish players playing for them in the past, that the reason I started supporting them

nlgbbbblth

irish1 wrote:

Who have had several Irish players playing for them in the past, that the reason I started supporting them

makes no odds
aren't you guys supposed to hate the English?

why not support an Irish club?

Cork

ArthurDent wrote:

Ah well that's all right then, all is forgiven

Sorry this justifies what? Kneecapping, targetting those whose anti-social activities getting in the way of the IRA making a quick buck - give me a break, if this is your only argument or IRA intervention I think you need to have a major rethink

But will the IRA now be returning the large amounts of money it has acquired?

Has Adams, Ferris or SF any openion on this?

It is amazing how vocal SF are calling for the release of those involved in the mueder of Jerry McCabe - this is in stark contrast to their failure to condedm many acts od carnage by the IRA.

BuffyBot

aren't you guys supposed to hate the English?

In fairness, that's a bit of a generalisation. I'm perfectly sure you could support SF and not "hate" anyone. I don't think irish1 ever came across that way, and I don't see how his choice of soccer team impacts this discussion

Cork

BuffyBot wrote:

In fairness, that's a bit of a generalisation. I'm perfectly sure you could support SF and not "hate" anyone. I don't think irish1 ever came across that way, and I don't see how his choice of soccer team impacts this discussion

I agree. The days of the porter belly bar stool republican shouting "Brits Out" is stereo typing. Why can't people have an interest in British sport??

That said, this topic is about the McCabe Killers U-Turn. It metters more than sport. Why does linking its websites to online stores for 'Sniper at Work' and other IRA paraphernalia tell you about the atitude to victims of violence?

billy the squid

Well there was some good news I learned today. Mary Harney said on radio that the release of these men wouldn't even be considered until the IRA were completely disarmed.

I'm holding out a tiny hope that the PDs will be the big tail that wags the FF dog on this issue.

one more thing and I dont mean to go off topic. to the user with the MSN tag of "IRA down with the GFA." Your msn name is different to your boards name so I don't know who you are, so I blocked your request for conversation. it would be appreciated if ou sent a boards.ie pm first.

once again apologies for going off topic.

nlgbbbblth

Cork wrote:

I agree. The days of the porter belly bar stool republican shouting "Brits Out" is stereo typing. Why can't people have an interest in British sport??

That said, this topic is about the McCabe Killers U-Turn. It metters more than sport. Why does linking its websites to online stores for 'Sniper at Work' and other IRA paraphernalia tell you about the atitude to victims of violence?

I disagree
Those days are still with us. The hypocrites in their bar stool shouting abuse at British , well more so English sports teams (no matter who they are and who they are playing against). The same hypocrites with a British tabloid in front of them etc

Anyone care to comment on the theory that LOI clubs have Irish players playing for them - so why not support them? :rolleyes:

apologies for bringing this off-topic

marco murphy

nlgbbbblth wrote:

makes no odds
aren't you guys supposed to hate the English?

why not support an Irish club?

Republicans sont hate all english...thats very ignorant.
When you see the british flag being burnt...thats the message to the admistration,government.

Cork

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Anyone care to comment on the theory that LOI clubs have Irish players playing for them - so why not support them? :rolleyes:

apologies for bringing this off-topic

It really is a non issue when talking about caving into the demands of SF/IRA to release the killers of Gerry McCabe.

Are SF/IRA threating to halt the prace process unless these people are released?

billy the squid

I don't know about halting it but it seems to be an issue with them. These men will be out soon enough anyway so I dont know what they are whinging about.

All anne mccabe wants is for them to serve out their time. It is bad enough that they didnt get the murder conviction that they deserved in my opinion. but some success is better than none i suppose.

FTA69

billy the squid wrote:

061 46 19 95 is the telephone number to the local rradio station in Limerick. They might be able to put you in touch with the mans wife so you can say that to her yourself.



What war? The IRA doesn't fit into the criteria of an armed force as it does not identify itself before it carries out an operation. To be recognised as an army under the Geneva Convention an armed group has to have some identifying piece of attire.

Killing members of the public also goes against the Geneva Convention. like they did in Warrington, Birmingham, Brighton, Canary Wharf, the list goes on.

The above remark was taken entirely out of context and well you know it. I meant that the fact they robbed a van or shot a guard is inconsequential in terms of the prisoner release scheme outlined in the Good Friday Agreement.

Regards the war, I put to you the same question I asked Sand, are the British Army not then considered an army owing to the fact plain clothes SAS soldiers riddled unarmed combatants without warning? Was the War of Independence not then a "war" because the Volunteers often wore no uniform whatsoever? The IRA ignored many aspects of the Geneva Convention but so did the British Army so I really don't see what you are getting at. War is a dirty business in the first place and fancy rules rarely govern its progress or its outcome.

Regards Canary Wharf etc, deliberately targeting civilians is indeed contrary to the GC, but the above were not attacks on civilians but on economic and infrastructural installations, a legitimate target in any war providing warnings etc are given to minimise civilian casualties.

billy the squid

FTA69 wrote:

The above remark was taken entirely out of context and well you know it. I meant that the fact they robbed a van or shot a guard is inconsequential in terms of the prisoner release scheme outlined in the Good Friday Agreement.

Regards the war, I put to you the same question I asked Sand, are the British Army not then considered an army owing to the fact plain clothes SAS soldiers riddled unarmed combatants without warning? Was the War of Independence not then a "war" because the Volunteers often wore no uniform whatsoever? The IRA ignored many aspects of the Geneva Convention but so did the British Army so I really don't see what you are getting at. War is a dirty business in the first place and fancy rules rarely govern its progress or its outcome.

Regards Canary Wharf etc, deliberately targeting civilians is indeed contrary to the GC, but the above were not attacks on civilians but on economic and infrastructural installations, a legitimate target in any war providing warnings etc are given to minimise civilian casualties.

two questions.

Was blowing up that pub in birmingham necessary, especially when it was packed with people who were only only out having a drink. could they not keep their trigger happy little hands off it until at least it was empty if, as you say, the target was infrastructural rather than civilian.

other question is, and I mean no offence, but are you a "volunteer"

and there are many amongst the brittish establishment that will tell you that bloody sunday was a mistake but that has little to do with five men robbing a bank in Co Limerick.

marco murphy

That was out of order those pub bombings.Canary Wharf was a very effective bomb.