Ahern does McCabe Killers U-Turn

Rock Climber

FTA69 wrote:

I also voted for the GFA that stated that demilitarisation would take place after a period of a few years but here we are also. You cannot sign up to an agreement in its entirity and then renege on obligations you undertook just because they don't suit you, the people voted for the GFA under whose auspices the Castlereagh Four come under. End of Story.

Regards the Constitution, so you believe that the killers of McQuaid and Hand should never have been released? Or anyone convicted of armed robbery for that matter? Why bother releasing any prisoners?

The GFA should be implemented IN IT'S ENTIRITY regardless of what the constitution of either state says.

I sense three things in your post...
1.A disregard for the democratic will of the people of Ireland.
2.A disregard for the constitution of Ireland
3.A disregard for what was made clear to SF during the negotiations ie that the McCabe killers weren't covered, they being criminals on a criminal act only conveniently to coin a phrase umberella'ed by the IRA after the crime they committed so as to make the extremely shakey case for their inclusion coupled with a lets ignore the fact that this was also made clear to the voters at the time and the basis for their exclusion was enshrined in the accompaning legislation and implemented by the democratically elected government.

Any one of those three things amounts to hypocrisy, alltogether, they amount to extreme hypocrisy but then that doesn't surprise me from a movement that speaks all the time of a free Ireland when right during their terrorism campaign the free will of the majority of the people of Ireland which was so against the IRA's murderous campaign was so blatantly ignored.

billy the squid

FTA69 wrote:

Out of curiosity Billy, do you regard the IRA of the 20s as "terrorists"? Do you seek to deny the War of Independence was a "war"?Remember, the IRA back then were a fan of train robberies.

doesnt answer my question

is pilaging outlawed by the Geneva Convention yes or no?

sceptre

FTA69 wrote:

The GFA should be implemented IN IT'S ENTIRITY regardless of what the constitution of either state says.

Even someone with a half-arse notion of the extent to which the State[1] is bound by international agreements (see Article 29) that don't fall in line with constitutional restrictions would know that anyone (even Chris McGimpsey) would be up like a shot to challenge that. And assuming there's a contradiction in there, they'd win. I assume you've at least a half-arsed notion of this so you know damned well your proposal above won't wash if there's anything in our constitution that disallows anything listed in the GFA.


[1]Ireland. In the UK obviously an Act of Parliament can ride over almost any previously existing contradiction

Cork

The GFA should be implemented IN IT'S ENTIRITY regardless of what the constitution of either state says.

You left out the courts?

But the laws on this country also need up holding. That is no illrgal armies, no kangaroo courts, punishment beatings or criminality.

cdebru

these men are in prison because they were in the IRA

they were carring out a bank robbery to raise funds for the IRA

these men have to my knowledge never been in prison or charged with anything other than stuff that relates to their membership of the IRA and activities undertaken on behalf of the IRA

if the IRA are going to wind up and go out of business it could not do so while it had prisoners still in prison for offences related to the conflict

the high court and the supreme court ruled that these men were qualifying prisoners under the GFA but that the courts did not have the authority to order their release

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

these men are in prison because they were in the IRA

Hello?! They are in prison for killing a garda while robbing a post office.

they were carring out a bank robbery to raise funds for the IRA

Well it was a post office, and if the IRA knew about the operation, how come they initially denied it? It's not as if theres ten a day committed by them, they would have been well aware of it if it had been sanctioned

these men have to my knowledge never been in prison or charged with anything other than stuff that relates to their membership of the IRA and activities undertaken on behalf of the IRA

They are in prison because they killed a Garda while robbing a post office. If I went out in the morning and did the same and was caught,I'd expect to be in prison too and I can assure you I am not a member of the IRA.

the high court and the supreme court ruled that these men were qualifying prisoners under the GFA but that the courts did not have the authority to order their release

Where did the supreme court state that these prisoners qualified for release under the GFA, have you a link to that?

bonkey

So anyone anything new to offer on this, are will we just continue talking in circles for a while more?

jc

not me anyway,I think we should all agree to disagree and you should close the thread accordingly so we can concentrate on disagree'ing in the other one

billy the squid

I havent read this yet as I only come accross it a few minutes ago but I thought I would share it nonetheless

http://www.limerick-leader.ie/issues/20041211/news02.html

billy the squid

It would appear that sinn fein has a good reason for wanting these men out so early

every bone in my body tells me that no matter what, these "castlerea 5" should serve out their time

from Limerick Leader

Killers are thought to have evidence of SF's IRA links

THE killers of Det Garda Jerry McCabe have vital information linking leading members of Sinn Féin to the IRA's army council, the Limerick Leader was told this week.

"Kevin Walsh could embarrass a lot of people with information he has and that is one of the reasons that Sinn Féin are pushing for the four men's release," a leading political source claimed this Monday.

It was also revealed this week that leading Sinn Féin members met secretly with Kevin Walsh, leader of the gang responsible for Garda McCabe's death in an IRA safehouse in Cavan to carry out an internal inquiry.

"The killers were threatening to reveal information which could have major ramifications for the peace process and possible political deals if they were not included for early release deal," said the source.

Jeremiah Sheehy of Rathkeale, Michael O'Neill and Kevin Walsh both from Patrickswell and Pearse McCauley from Strabane, Tyrone were all jailed for the manslaughter of Det Garda McCabe by the Special Criminal Court in 1999.

"They were moved from Portlaoise to Castlerea - a low security prison because of the information that Walsh has. He could seriously affect any deal if their release is not secured," said the source.

The Limerick Leader has also learned senior Sinn Féin leaders met with Mr Walsh in an IRA safehouse in Cavan shortly before he was captured. Sinn Féin chief negotiator and member of the Ard Comhairle, Martin McGuinness has previously denied meeting the men in the house after the killing.

It is believed the Sinn Féin leaders met Walsh in hiding as part of an internal inquiry they were carrying out following Garda McCabe's killing. It is believed that the Adare incident had not received an official sanction from the IRA's army council and that the internal inquiry concluded that it was a go-it-alone operation by the IRA's main Munster unit.

Despite numerous attempts by the Limerick Leader for comment from Sinn Fein, nothing has been received.

Deputy Peter Power met the Taoiseach on Tuesday "to express the outright opposition of Limerick people to the proposed release of the killers of Gerry McCabe."

"I have has a series of meetings with the Taoiseach going back over a period of six weeks - well before the Taoiseach's statements last week. During those meetings, I expressed to the Taoiseach in clear terms the depth of feeling amongst Limerick people in relation to this matter."

"I explained to him that this was a highly emotive issue for the people of Limerick and especially for the McCabe family. Anybody who attended Jerry McCabe's funeral could be left in no doubt about the strength and depth of emotive in Limerick concerning this issue," said Deputy Power.

FTA69

Wow, if it's in the Limerick Leader it must be true... :rolleyes:
Seems to be another "Skibbereen Eagle" scenario is unfolding...

It has been said that Kevin Walsh is solidly behind the current leadership of the Republican Movement so I doubt he is about to spill the beans about any alleged links. Pure tripe.

billy the squid

FTA69 wrote:

Wow, if it's in the Limerick Leader it must be true... :rolleyes:
Seems to be another "Skibbereen Eagle" scenario is unfolding...

more balanced than that rag An Publocht anyway. And given that Gda McCabe worked and died in Limerick, I would imagine that the local press would have better access to local information than the national media.

FTA69

Local information? And what access would the Limerick Leader have to internal IRA affairs, aside of course from fabrication, either of their own making or that of the police.

A Dub in Glasgo

Nothing in that article other than guesswork

mike65

Excure me posting all this but its worth reading

from unison.

Gerry Adams lied about McCabe deal, says angry Ahern


Killers threatened Sinn Fein TD Martin Ferris to secure their release
Government documents show photographs were 'on' two weeks ago

THE Taoiseach has accused the Sinn Fein leader, Gerry Adams, of lying about analleged deal to free the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe.

Mr Adams claimed on the Late Late Show that he and Bertie Ahern shook hands and agreed to their release as long ago as 1999 - after the killers had been convicted but before they had even been sentenced.

But after a day of angry demands by Opposition leaders that he respond to the claims, Mr Ahern told the Sunday Independent: "What Gerry Adams said on the Late Late Show is just not true. From day one we made it clear that the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe would not be released as part of the Good Friday Agreement."

A spokeswoman for the Taoiseach said he never gave any assurances on the killers' early release. She said that to suggest the early release of the killers wasn't a "problem" for the Taoiseach was wrong.

The spokeswoman said that, in February 1999, Mr Ahern told then FG leader John Bruton: "At no time was anyone given any comfort about these people and neither will they be."

The Sunday Independent can also reveal that the main pressure to get the killers of Garda McCabe freed had come from Sinn Fein TD, Martin Ferris, who had himself come under strong pressure from the incarcerated killers.

Senior Government sources say that Mr Ferris pushed the line that failure to release them would lead to a split in the IRA because he had been threatened with embarrassing revelations by the McCabe killers if he did not deliver.

The Sunday Independent has also seen Government documents which make it clear that the taking and publication of photographs of decommissioned weapons was still considered to be an essential part of any agreement as recently as two weeks ago.

These documents appear to contradict Mr Adams's assertion that as long ago aslast September, both Governments were aware the photographs issue was not a runner.

The documents, which were sent to the DUP by the Government on November 30, state that "the photographs will be taken by the IICD [the decommissioning body] . . . the Government will ensure that the photographs to be published will be made available to national and local media organisations".

On Friday's Late Late Show, Mr Adams told Pat Kenny: "I went to the Taoiseach and I said to the Taoiseach: 'I don't know if these guys [McCabe's killers] are going to get sentenced or not but if they are, they cannot be left behind. They have to be part of the overall release of all the prisoners. And he [the Taoiseach] said, 'If we get an agreement that will not be a problem.'"

Mr Adams had previously written in his autobiography,

ANALYSIS

Hope and History - Making Peace in Ireland: "If we got an agreement, the Taoiseach told me, I would have nothingto worry about on that score. Fair enough. We shookhands on it."

The dispute between Mr Ahern and Mr Adams caused immediate controversy yesterday. FG leader, Enda Kenny, told the Sunday Independent: "If this claim is true then the repeated commitments made by Mr Ahern and his ministers at the time and subsequently were totally bogus and insincere. The Taoiseach must provide a response to these allegations as a matter of urgency."

Former FG leader Michael Noonan said: "It certainly requires an immediate explanation. Adams's quotes last night showed the whole thing is simply bedded in hypocrisy.

"Sinn Fein have been spinning so long and so convincingly that they are not challenged any more by RTE. Even distinguished reporters kind of just nod their heads."

The General Secretary of the Garda Representative Association, PJ Stone, said: "The Taoiseach should clarify this once and for all. Either he or Gerry Adams has not been telling the truth.

"If it is true that the Taoiseach gave a guarantee before these men were even sentenced, it undermines everything, the State, the lot. The Taoiseach has to clear this up now," Mr Stone said.

Meanwhile, the Sunday Independent has learned that the Government has been told that Martin Ferris, the former IRA gun runner and Sinn Fein TD, will be held personally responsible by the killers of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe if they fail to get early release.

A senior Government source has said Mr Ferris has been threatened with embarrassing disclosures that could damage SF unless he secures their release.

The Government was told that the TD for Kerry North warned SF leaders there would be an IRA split if their release were not guaranteed, and that vast arms caches buried in Munster would not be decommissioned.

The latest disclosures will embarrass Ferris, who is believed to be an associate of Kevin Walsh, one of the detective garda's killers and was believed to be head of the IRA's Munster brigade at the time of the shooting.

Yesterday, Mr Stone, said: "I think it is really significant that Kevin Walsh and others in jail in Castlerea are going to expose senior Sinn Fein figures if they are not catered for in the peace agreement. They are not going to have Adams and others swanning around when they are effectively left behind in jail."

Meanwhile, the Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, said yesterday that the crucial issue for him was a declaration by the IRA that they would end their involvement in criminality.

"Gerry Adams says that what they are willing to sign up to is the same thing. If it is, let them sign up to what is required. Failure to deliver this could lead to a situation where the IRA had a safety valve to continue to indulge in criminality.

"And if that were to happen it could leave the Government in the position where it looked as if it had acquiesced in that," he said.

Labour Party leader Pat Rabbitte yesterday called for clarity from the Government.

"On the information now available, there seem to be only two possible interpretations. Either the PDs engaged in an after-the-event analysis of documents and then seized on a missing sub-clause, the absence of which struck no one else as significant, in order to justify unwise assertions made by the Tanaiste in the Dail last Wednesday.

"Or else the Irish people were kept in the dark by the Taoiseach as to the very real uncertainty surrounding the nature and extent of the commitment the IRA was prepared to make in writing, in order to secure the restoration of the Good Friday Agreement and its institutions."

MAEVE SHEEHAN, JODY CORCORAN, JEROME REILLY and ALAN MURRAY

cdebru

Earthman wrote:

Hello?! They are in prison for killing a garda while robbing a post office.

Well it was a post office, and if the IRA knew about the operation, how come they initially denied it? It's not as if theres ten a day committed by them, they would have been well aware of it if it had been sanctioned

They are in prison because they killed a Garda while robbing a post office. If I went out in the morning and did the same and was caught,I'd expect to be in prison too and I can assure you I am not a member of the IRA.

Where did the supreme court state that these prisoners qualified for release under the GFA, have you a link to that?

you missed my point they were robbing the post office because they were members of the IRA
there is no evidence that any of these men would have ended up in prison if it was not for the political situation in this country
now if you are to reach a settlement people who are in prison because of the conflict have to be released

the point that the IRA army council did not know about the robbery is irrelevant
they did not need sanction from the army council to do this
that does not mean that it was not an IRA operation
it just means that the IRA army council did not have previous knowledge

can i suggest that if the IRA army council had said they did not have prior information or did not sanction enniskillen or warrington or birmingham no one would suggest that meant it was not an IRA operation or that the IRA was not responsible


last point is common knowledge google it yourself
they said the prisoners were qualifying under the terms of the GFA
however it is up to the executive to decide who to release as there is nothing in the GFA that is binding
thats my understanding of it anyway

billy the squid

cdebru wrote:

you missed my point they were robbing the post office because they were members of the IRA
there is no evidence that any of these men would have ended up in prison if it was not for the political situation in this country

Hold up here, what you are saying is that they got caught for robbing a bank and they would have been let away with it if they were not members of the IRA

no offence here but that is complete and utter horse ****.

They got caught robbing the post office and the manslaughter of a guard, they should be greatful they didnt get the full 40 years instead you have sinn fein bitching and moaning about them being in jail at all.

now if you are to reach a settlement people who are in prison because of the conflict have to be released

They are not in prison because of some conflict. They are in prison for robbing a post office and killing a member of the Gardai who was protecting the money. The IRA denied the robbery initially.

the point that the IRA army council did not know about the robbery is irrelevant

No it is NOT! Who do these scumbags think they are that gives them the right to run riot around my country robbing banks and gunrunning and then claiming "oh the IRA have a right to do this" These men are criminals full stop.

they did not need sanction from the army council to do this
that does not mean that it was not an IRA operation
it just means that the IRA army council did not have previous knowledge

They knew about it afterwards and denied responsibility!

they said the prisoners were qualifying under the terms of the GFA
however it is up to the executive to decide who to release as there is nothing in the GFA that is binding

It was stated by the government of the republic of ireland that the McCabe murderers would not be covered by the Good Friday Agreement before the referendum took place. The doubt over whether or not the killers would or would not be released under this agreement nearly caused the republic to reject it. That is why our government made it clear that these men would not be covered by the agrreement.

cdebru

billy the squid wrote:

Hold up here, what you are saying is that they got caught for robbing a bank and they would have been let away with it if they were not members of the IRA

no offence here but that is complete and utter horse ****.

They got caught robbing the post office and the manslaughter of a guard, they should be greatful they didnt get the full 40 years instead you have sinn fein bitching and moaning about them being in jail at all..

read what i said not what you think i said
they would not have robbed the money in the first place if they had not been in the IRA
there fore it is part of the coflict

billy the squid wrote:

They are not in prison because of some conflict. They are in prison for robbing a post office and killing a member of the Gardai who was protecting the money. The IRA denied the robbery initially..

raising money for the IRA is part of the conflict
the denial is irrelevant
they were and still are members of the IRA they were acting on behalf of the IRA even if the IRA army council was unaware of their activities at the time

billy the squid wrote:

No it is NOT! Who do these scumbags think they are that gives them the right to run riot around my country robbing banks and gunrunning and then claiming "oh the IRA have a right to do this" These men are criminals full stop. .

no criminals steal for their own benefit
these people were stealing money to fund a politically motivated armed campaign
that is obviously part of the conflict

billy the squid wrote:

They knew about it afterwards and denied responsibility!.

i dont know when the IRA leadership found out its people were involved and i'am guessing you dont either

the simple question is did the IRA kill garda mc cabe the answer is yes
do IRA prisoners qualify for early relerase again yes

billy the squid wrote:

It was stated by the government of the republic of ireland that the McCabe murderers would not be covered by the Good Friday Agreement before the referendum took place. The doubt over whether or not the killers would or would not be released under this agreement nearly caused the republic to reject it. That is why our government made it clear that these men would not be covered by the agrreement.

how do you know how people would have voted at the time
where is your evidence that the GFA was nearly rejected

the men had not been convicted at the time of the GFA
so of course they could not have been included as they were innocent at the time in the eyes of the law
but other people who killed gardai were released what is the difference

billy the squid

If the government were not worried about the good friday agreement being rejected they would not have made that promise to the people of the republic of ireland that the McCabe Killers would not be released. There is your evidence that the Agreement would been rejected.

cdebru

billy the squid wrote:

If the government were not worried about the good friday agreement being rejected they would not have made that promise to the people of the republic of ireland that the McCabe Killers would not be released. There is your evidence that the Agreement would been rejected.

it would not have been popular just as it is not popular now

but i doubt very much that the good friday agreement would have been rejected

just as it was not rejected in the north despite the fact that some very unsavoury people were being released from prison

A Dub in Glasgo

Another article for the melting pot

Killers' release was always on the cards

12 December 2004 By Paul T Colgan

In July 1997, less than a year before the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, the mutilated body of 16-year-old Catholic schoolboy James Morgan was found in a water-filled hole on the outskirts of Clough, Co Down.

Morgan, who was last spotted trying to hitch a lift home to Annsbourough near Castlewellan, had been missing for a number of days. RUC divers discovered his body in the hole that was used by a local farmer to dispose of animal carcasses.

Morgan had been badly beaten and it appeared that attempts had been made to burn the body. He had been the victim of a brutal sectarian murder at the hands of Norman Coopey.

Coopey, a local Orangeman, turned himself in to the RUC the day after the murder.

He was sentenced to life imprisonment in January 1999.

On entering the Maze prison, Coopey joined the Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF). Established by the late Billy Wright, the LVF was an offshoot of the Ulster Volunteer Force and had been responsible for a vicious campaign of sectarian murder against Catholics in mid-Ulster. Coopey walked free from jail in July 2000, less than 18 months into his murder sentence and only three years after killing Morgan. He qualified for early release under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement as a member of the LVF.

Coopey, who is believed to have an IQ of 74, was not a member of any paramilitary organisation when he killed Morgan. The victim's mother, Philomena, maintains that Coopey should never have been released, given that he was not a member of the LVF when he carried out the murder.

Just over one year before the murder, Detective Garda Jerry McCabe was gunned down on the street in Adare, Co Limerick. He had been called to the scene of an armed robbery.

He was shot dead and his colleague, Detective Garda Ben O'Sullivan, was seriously injured.

The IRA initially denied any responsibility for the robbery or the killing. It later revised this to say that, while its members had been involved, the operation was unsanctioned.

IRA member s Pearse McAuley and Kevin Walsh were convicted of McCabe's manslaughter and sentenced to 14 years' imprisonment. Jeremiah Sheehy and Michael O'Neill from Co Limerick were also convicted in relation to the killing.

They are likely to be freed under any future agreement reached between Sinn Féin and the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has been subjected to fierce criticism since he told the Dáil the McCabe killers would be released. Much of the criticism stems from Ahern's U-turn on the issue.

Ahern, with ministers Michael McDowell and John O'Donoghue, had said the men would not be released and were to be excluded from the rules governing prisoner release in the North.

Mary Harney once said she would never serve in a government that oversaw their early release. McCabe's widow, Ann, received written assurances that the men would serve out their sentences.

These reassurances and guarantees were patently worthless. Given the fact that the likes of Coopey were walking the streets in the North, the government's contention that the McCabe killers were to be treated differently was nonsense.

The Good Friday Agreement was endorsed by an overwhelming majority of voters in the Republic. This paved the way for prisoner releases.

However, while nationalists on both sides of the border were united in their support for the new beginning, it seems the McCabe issue marks a departure.

Northern nationalists, who voted in huge numbers for the Agreement, did so in the knowledge that the men who brutalised their community for almost 30 years would walk free. Sectarian serial killers were greeted by loyalists at the gates of the Maze as conquering heroes.

Indeed, many loyalists quickly returned to their old ways on release. However, nationalists - in the interests of winning a deal that ensured their parity of esteem, equality with unionists and an end to violence - bit their lips and voted in favour of the Agreement.

A significant section of unionism also voted to release IRA men, despite the fact that the organisation has been responsible for the deaths of RUC and UDR men and innocent Protestants. It was these notable sacrifices that have largely been passed over in the heated debate surrounding McCabe's killing.

People who lost loved ones in the North and yet put up with prisoner releases could be forgiven for thinking the lives of their friends and relatives are held in lower regard than the life of McCabe.

Unpalatable as it may be to many, McCabe's killers should have been released as part of the initial prisoner release scheme.

The Agreement paved the way for the release of hundreds of paramilitary members in 2000. Among them was Torrens Knight, a UVF member who was involved in the shooting dead of seven people in the Greysteel massacre on Halloween night 1993.His gang infamously shouted “trick or treat'‘ before indiscriminately spraying the Rising Sun bar with bullets.

Moira Duddy, Karen Thompson, John Burns, Joe McDermott, John Moyne, James Moore and Stephen Mullan died in the attack. Victor Montgomery died of his injuries six months later. Eleven other people were injured. Jeffrey Deeney and Stephen Irwin, who were also involved in the attack in the small Co Derry bar, walked free, along with Knight.

The list of loyalists released alongside Knight and Coopey includes James Beck, who killed a Catholic man while he slept on a park bench; Thomas Beggs, who murdered two Catholic workmen; Samuel Cooke, who killed a Catholic mother of two; and Ryan Robley, who murdered two best friends - one Protestant and one Catholic - in the Railway pub in Poyntzpass, Co Armagh.

From the Sunday Business Post. Bitter pills have to be swallowed by everyone.

cdebru

cdebru wrote:

read what i said not what you think i said
they would not have robbed the money in the first place if they had not been in the IRA
there fore it is part of the coflict

You keep saying that with certainty, yet how can you be certain what the purpose of their robbery was?
It's been stated here on this board by IRA supporters that the IRA is very disiplined, yet their organisation acted initially as if they knew nothing of these guys , they denied the job when it happened.

So how does anyone know what the gangs intentions were with certainty? and ergo how can you state it was part of the conflict?

What comment do you have on Aherns words today saying yet again that he made it clear to Adams that these guys would not qualify under the Early release programme of the GFA at the time of the negotiation.

He says he did however intimate much later that their release might come as part of a separate deal to progress the peace process further.
This would be at the behest of Sinn Féin lobbying, effectively using the guys as a bargaining chip ie no release=no progress which ironically means no power sharing.

BEAT

Does anyone else not see this as an avoidance tactic by the IRA?
I mean, they agree to decommission on the release of the IRA members in prison...thinking it would never happen. They agree on the release so now they dont want to follow through so they demand the release of the bank job men/killers as a sure thing that it wont happen.
It just seems like they were toying with the notion of a total decommission and when thier terms were met they had to up the ante to avoid it actually happening.
I mean I think even they know the bank job men dont deserve to be released, thats why they proposed it.

That is what I am getting from this anyway...personally I dont think the IRA will ever fully decommission...I hope they dont actually. If they had or if they do go ahead with the release it will only make the IRA stronger, giving them back much of thier backbone so what makes anyone think they would actually end it all when that happened?

Sorry I know I dont know all there is to know but I have been reading these posts for awhile and this is what I take away from it

Sleepy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Another article for the melting pot



From the Sunday Business Post. Bitter pills have to be swallowed by everyone.

Does highlighting one injustice really mean that we should carry out another one?

Kingsize

As far as I remember The Robbery wasn't succesful i.e. two cops shot but no
money taken,was this really case I wonder?
I could never understand it actually when you think that both cops were armed.
I do distinctly rememeber the day it happened & there was the suggestion that it was an "Execution" which has always been in the back of my mind.
I would imagine that these guys would be walking free today were it not for the fact that they killed a garda. e.g.if they had killed the unarmed driver of the postal truck

A Dub in Glasgo

Sleepy wrote:

Does highlighting one injustice really mean that we should carry out another one?

No if you regard it as an injustice but if you look at the bigger picture and take the blinkers off for a moment, many many people (who carried out much worse crimes than this case) have been released as part of conflict settlement that was agreed in the GFA. If these guys are due for release under the GFA, they should be released.

arcadegame2004

I would remind people that the IRA killers of Gardai Seamus McQuaid and Frank Hand were released under the GFA. Why isn't there such a hullaballoo about that? Oh I see, because they were killed in the 80's?

So hypocritical!

Sparks

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If these guys are due for release under the GFA, they should be released.

Except that they explicitly weren't. And at the time of the shooting, the IRA disowned them and said they weren't acting as part of the IRA. And they were committing a bank robbery when McCabe was shot. So exactly why are Sinn Fein now demanding their release? They're not covered by the GFA explicitly, they were disowned at the time, what's the motive?

A Dub in Glasgo

Sparks wrote:

Except that they explicitly weren't.

To my knowledge, they were never excluded from the obligations of the GFA. some people, at the time, put forward a view that they should be excluded but this means nothing if they are not actually excluded from the GFA.

And at the time of the shooting, the IRA disowned them and said they weren't acting as part of the IRA.

I thought the IRA initially did not claim responsibility but later admitted it by saying the leadership were not aware that IRA members were involved.

And they were committing a bank robbery when McCabe was shot.

Yes but robberies to fund the IRA have taken place for decades

So exactly why are Sinn Fein now demanding their release?

I would imagine that SF would argue that they are covered by the GFA and the IRA would be pushing for their members to be released

They're not covered by the GFA explicitly

All other prisoners are covered explicitly? Are they excluded explicitly?

they were disowned at the time

I do not remember the IRA disowning these members

what's the motive?

Implementation of the prisoner release clause in the GFA?