Importing Guns ..?

jaycee

Hi all,

First post on here ,
I have been wondering about the massive price difference between the USA prices of Guns (Of all sorts) and here .

As an example ..
a Winchester 9410 (full size Lever action 410 shotgun) sells for about $500 in the US ..
but despite the favorable currency rate they are costing about €1000 over here.. How come..?

I'm sure since the possibility of handgun ownership is apparently becoming a reality here ..(Even if the actual ammo import issue is a little strange) ..the ripoffs will continue .

As a newbie on here ... can anyone actually spell out exactly the steps needed to legally and sucessfully import , own and fire an imported rifle or hand gun here .

I currently own 2 rifles .. .Brno 22LR and .Ruger 77MK2 220 Swift .

JayCee

civdef

I'm sure someone else will cover the import side of things, but don't forget, you also have to export from the country of purchase. The individual export of firearms from the USA is supposed to be a fairly awkward process, for example.

jaycee wrote:

Hi all,

First post on here ,
I have been wondering about the massive price difference between the USA prices of Guns (Of all sorts) and here .

As an example ..
a Winchester 9410 (full size Lever action 410 shotgun) sells for about $500 in the US ..
but despite the favorable currency rate they are costing about €1000 over here.. How come..?

I'm sure since the possibility of handgun ownership is apparently becoming a reality here ..(Even if the actual ammo import issue is a little strange) ..the ripoffs will continue .

As a newbie on here ... can anyone actually spell out exactly the steps needed to legally and sucessfully import , own and fire an imported rifle or hand gun here .

I currently own 2 rifles .. .Brno 22LR and .Ruger 77MK2 220 Swift .

JayCee

Irishglockfan

Reason it costs still up in the $1000 mark,is profit and VAT on a tricky enough commerical transaction.
As an individual buying from the US isnt too difficult.It is an international FFL dealer to an irish gun dealer.However to get somone over in the US who has state dept clearence to conduct international firearms sales is the hard bit.they usually deal in lots of a hundred or more,so once offs are really not worth their while.
One way around this is,find somone in europe or the uk who deals in a certain US brand u want and ask them to include it in their next shipping consingement.Thus alot of annoying paperwork is taken care of for you,you pay a lower vat rate in whatever country in europe you deal with[EG Germany18%] and the dealer costs will be lower.It will proably work out by $300 cheaper.
Other way. Apply for lic of firearm over here.Go on hols to the USA fortwo /four weeks to a gun friendly state.Apply for a State ID card and soc sec no,which you can do very legally btw.Purchase firearm on state ID.Put in secure checked luggage,with NO ammo,find airline that is used to passengers travelling with firearms[most US airlines]ask what are their requirements post 9/11 on travelling with guns.Will assume it hasnt changed that much.Go home,be prepared to be met by customs,show irish firearms cert,pay appropiate duty on second hand gun[you did fire it once on the range to see if you liked it didnt you?]. Go home & enjoy. Been done and very legal.

Horeb

Gun Gallery in Drogheda is pulling all kinds of prices outta there hat:

Min Price for 9MM Pistol (if ever) €900, it was a CZ75, saw in Germany for €400

Min Price for .22LR Pistol €500

Is this a rip off or what, yes I understand they are new and very little second hand pistols will be about, but if I got North I can get them at half the price including rifles an shotguns.....and ammo !

Rovi

Hi group, another newbie here.

Irishglockfan wrote:

Other way. Apply for lic of firearm over here.Go on hols to the USA fortwo /four weeks to a gun friendly state.Apply for a State ID card and soc sec no,which you can do very legally btw.Purchase firearm on state ID.Put in secure checked luggage,with NO ammo,find airline that is used to passengers travelling with firearms[most US airlines]ask what are their requirements post 9/11 on travelling with guns.Will assume it hasnt changed that much.Go home,be prepared to be met by customs,show irish firearms cert,pay appropiate duty on second hand gun[you did fire it once on the range to see if you liked it didnt you?]. Go home & enjoy. Been done and very legal.

What would be the story with private sales from an individual in the States to an individual here???
I suppose it'd be something like what Irishglockfan says above, but would depend on the seller's State laws on transferring ownership?

I go to Vermont fairly regularly, and have some good friends there who would be delighted to help out, but I don't want to have the Homeland Security people crashing down on them for supplying arms to 'furriners'

Sparks

Horeb-Security wrote:

Gun Gallery in Drogheda is pulling all kinds of prices outta there hat:
Min Price for .22LR Pistol €500

What kind of .22lr though? An Mk2 shouldn't cost that much; a GSP ought to cost more...

Horeb

He did'nt give me the make, I was expecting to pay around €300 for a .22 Pistol again he was throwing prices. I would rather the .22 for the availablity of ammo

les45

A Beretta 87 retails at £480.00 , super piece of kit, with good quality ammo groups in to 30mm at 25 mts, you cant go wrong

jaycee

les45 wrote:

you cant go wrong

Why does that expression make me smile ...!

So.. what's the verdict ..?

Should one ..wait for confirmation of the new firearms act or go ahead
and start making arrangements.

How likely is it that the only object in reforming the firearms act is to
close this newly discovered "Loophole".. :eek:

Does anyone know what the proposals are.. ?

Irishglockfan

What would be the story with private sales from an individual in the States to an individual here???
I suppose it'd be something like what Irishglockfan says above, but would depend on the seller's State laws on transferring ownership?

if it is US to US citizen within the same state,local state laws apply.[In Vermont that should be pretty liberal.]
If it is US to non resident alien it is a different bucket of fish.You would be better off going the International FFL dealer to an Irish gun dealer.
Local ATF office should be able to advise you as who is a state dept cleared FFL dealer.If you are a green card carrier,it is a US/US citzen transfer.
Homeland security wont bother you.
More like ATF.
so long as the paperwork is in order and it fits in their laws all is fine.
All this BS has been brought to you courtsey of Bill Klintoon and the UN.




I

Sparks

jaycee wrote:

Why does that expression make me smile ...!

Long experience?

So.. what's the verdict ..?
Should one ..wait for confirmation of the new firearms act or go ahead
and start making arrangements.

I'd love to recommend you go ahead and get whatever you want, but since I couldn't afford to reimburse you if it gets declared illegal in six months, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so!

How likely is it that the only object in reforming the firearms act is to
close this newly discovered "Loophole".. :eek:
Does anyone know what the proposals are.. ?

We've asked the Minister several times and not gotten an answer listing any specifics. We know there's the secure storage one, and he's mentioned in interviews that there'll also be one to do with sawn-off shotguns; and then there's the phrase "to deal with certain recent court cases" that keeps cropping up when we ask him about the upcoming amendments. That one worries me a lot, especially in conjunction with the way that the firearms abuses by criminals have gotten such huge space in the media over the past year and so much in the way of public comments by high-level gardai.

Personally, I'll be waiting until after the CJB is dealt with before I spend a thousand euro or more on a high-end ISSF pistol; but if I can swing it, I'll be trying to get an entry-level ISSF air pistol in myself before then (an IZH model) since that would only be two to three hundred euro new and even less second-hand. I could stand to lose that much in a pinch.

jaycee

Sparks wrote:

"to deal with certain recent court cases"

Yep ..that's the one, makes me all itchy too..

On the other hand you have to wonder if actually having the licence sorted before a revision ..might not give you a better chance of retaining it .

as in ... a lot of legislation is passed "with effect to all future applications "
but washing over existing legally held "appliances" :rolleyes:

The secure storage issue is a no-brainer ..
Any self respecting and "appliance " respecting.... sane person would want
secure storage and gun safes , if only to protect your investment.

As for the sawn off shotguns ..It worries me a bit that it may be a handy
scary term to throw in to justify a prohibition on all those undesireable guns.
Unsuitable items for hunting in this country, Large calibre rifles , assault weapons , sawn off shotguns and handguns..
You can just imagine the spin doctors playing with that one..

Also one would think that a bit more "Openess and transparency" would be in evidence if the news were positive ....

Sparks

jaycee wrote:

On the other hand you have to wonder if actually having the licence sorted before a revision ..might not give you a better chance of retaining it .

I doubt it. Didn't do any good in '72, and there were a lot more firearms taken all at once there than banning pistols now would remove.

The secure storage issue is a no-brainer ..
Any self respecting and "appliance " respecting.... sane person would want secure storage and gun safes , if only to protect your investment.

Pretty much what everyone I know in the sport thinks as well. There are a few who can't have safes bolted to structural walls, but there's enough leeway in the amendment that they won't be screwed by the new changes.

As for the sawn off shotguns ..It worries me a bit that it may be a handy scary term to throw in to justify a prohibition on all those undesireable guns.

Well, it's pretty easy to define a "sawn-off shotgun" in law, so I don't see how they could abuse that too far.

Unsuitable items for hunting in this country, Large calibre rifles , assault weapons , sawn off shotguns and handguns..

You can just imagine the spin doctors playing with that one..

Well, to be honest, the spin doctors have so much to play with right now that it's not even funny. But large calibre rifles aren't just used for hunting, and "assault weapons" needs a definition ("assault rifle" has a defined technical meaning - a rifle capable of fully automatic or burst firing, with a detatchable box magazine and which uses an intermediate cartridge - but "assault weapon" is meaningless).

Also one would think that a bit more "Openess and transparency" would be in evidence if the news were positive ....

True

gouda

Irishglockfan wrote:

What would be the story with private sales from an individual in the States to an individual here???
I suppose it'd be something like what Irishglockfan says above, but would depend on the seller's State laws on transferring ownership?I

Go the correct route,ask the State Dept. for details. Best to fax them as their voicemail queries seem to be largely ignored and they respond to faxes within 24 hours in my experience. I have done a person to person transfer within 4 weeks and had no problems. Prior to 9/11 although I don't think it has changed much. By the way, I am not a US citizen and it was still easy to do.

Rovi

gouda wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovi, NOT by Irishglockfan
What would be the story with private sales from an individual in the States to an individual here???
I suppose it'd be something like what Irishglockfan says above, but would depend on the seller's State laws on transferring ownership?I

Go the correct route,ask the State Dept. for details. Best to fax them as their voicemail queries seem to be largely ignored and they respond to faxes within 24 hours in my experience. I have done a person to person transfer within 4 weeks and had no problems. Prior to 9/11 although I don't think it has changed much. By the way, I am not a US citizen and it was still easy to do.

Actually, it was me that wrote that top bit about private sales from an individual in the States to an individual here

gouda, what you say about contacting the State Department sound like the right thing to do, but at the moment this is all a bit of an academic exercise.
However, you never know what might happen the next time I’m over to my buddies in Vermont
I’d prefer to have a real transaction to conduct before diving into the Official Process.

I assume(?) that I’ll need to have a real individual gun in mind before going to the Guards to look for a licence that I can present to the Customs or whoever at time of import?
Can you get a ‘provisional’ gun licence that would allow you to go ‘shopping’, or do you have to do the shopping first and then get the licence for that specific gun?
I’ve never heard of such a thing, but I’ve never investigated importing a gun before either.

gouda

Rovi wrote:

Actually, it was me that wrote that top bit about private sales from an individual in the States to an individual here

gouda, what you say about contacting the State Department sound like the right thing to do, but at the moment this is all a bit of an academic exercise.
However, you never know what might happen the next time I’m over to my buddies in Vermont
I’d prefer to have a real transaction to conduct before diving into the Official Process.

I assume(?) that I’ll need to have a real individual gun in mind before going to the Guards to look for a licence that I can present to the Customs or whoever at time of import?
Can you get a ‘provisional’ gun licence that would allow you to go ‘shopping’, or do you have to do the shopping first and then get the licence for that specific gun?
I’ve never heard of such a thing, but I’ve never investigated importing a gun before either.

How I did it was like this; my friend bought the rifle, I immediately faxed the DoJ for an import licence, which was faxed back immediately,my friend contacted the State Dept for necessary paperwork which was posted to him in a couple of days. Forms were filled in and sent to State Dept. (this is where the wheels came off as the address to return the forms to was incorrect). I returned to Ireland and applied for a licence which was granted,whyen the gun arrived Customs informed me of it's arrival and I had to produce the Licence when I collected it. The only delay was due to the fact that the State Dept. forms had the wrong address on them so forms had to be sent twice and due to the fact of my friend undergoing triple bypass surgery, there was a delay in the process but when the forms were finally sent to the right office it only took a couple of weeks for clearance. The rifle was sent by US mail and arrived safe and sound. If you have your friends buy it before you travel and do all the necessary paperwork it may be possible to return with it as checked baggage, otherwise have it posted over.

Rovi

gouda wrote:

How I did it was like this; my friend bought the rifle, I immediately faxed the DoJ for an import licence, which was faxed back immediately,my friend contacted the State Dept for necessary paperwork which was posted to him in a couple of days. Forms were filled in and sent to State Dept. (this is where the wheels came off as the address to return the forms to was incorrect). I returned to Ireland and applied for a licence which was granted,whyen the gun arrived Customs informed me of it's arrival and I had to produce the Licence when I collected it. The only delay was due to the fact that the State Dept. forms had the wrong address on them so forms had to be sent twice and due to the fact of my friend undergoing triple bypass surgery, there was a delay in the process but when the forms were finally sent to the right office it only took a couple of weeks for clearance. The rifle was sent by US mail and arrived safe and sound. If you have your friends buy it before you travel and do all the necessary paperwork it may be possible to return with it as checked baggage, otherwise have it posted over.

Hmmmmmmmmm.......................................... Interesting.

Doesn't look too bad at all, does it?

civdef

Seemingly the DoJ is no longer willing to conduct import licence applications by fax, and they now take around 10 weeks to process.

The person on the US side of things needs to be careful as well. They need to describe the transfer to you as a "gift". Purchasing a firearm on behalf of someone else is known as a "straw man" purchase over there and is a felony.

Irishglockfan

Hmmm all I can say is the State dept must have been working that week!Usually it is a major chore to actually get to speak to a human being in there.Anything done within four weeks by the SD is considerd fast by most ffL dealers.Maybe this has changed,but i find it quicker just to do a FFL to FFL dealer.

Rovi
Nope,you cant get a tempoary firearms cert for the purposes you describe.It has to be a liscense no to a certificate.Which would be one of those things that should be changed here in the firearms laws.That you should liscense the man and not the guns.as is done in the UK and the continent.

gouda

civdef wrote:

Seemingly the DoJ is no longer willing to conduct import licence applications by fax, and they now take around 10 weeks to process.

The person on the US side of things needs to be careful as well. They need to describe the transfer to you as a "gift". Purchasing a firearm on behalf of someone else is known as a "straw man" purchase over there and is a felony.

Civ, ithink the process takes about two weeks(10 working days) with DoJ. If you are in the US buying a firearm they will fax it through immediately. Anyway a phone call to DoJ will clarify the situation.

gouda

Irishglockfan wrote:

Hmmm all I can say is the State dept must have been working that week!Usually it is a major chore to actually get to speak to a human being in there.Anything done within four weeks by the SD is considerd fast by most ffL dealers.Maybe this has changed,but i find it quicker just to do a FFL to FFL dealer.

State Dept. respond very quick to faxes but definitely do not want to speak on the phone. Their voicemail system has to be experienced to be believed. I gave up on voice after two attempts but only sent one fax and had a fast response to it.