Are PC users Goths ?!!! :O

Dustaz

Ok, there really isnt any point in quoting you. so heres some points:
1. I apologise profusly, you did indeed say all dance music sucks. I dont see any difference between that sort of sweeping generalisation and saying all computer music sucks tho.
2. ALL bands use computers to some degree. Unless they are recording in some timewarped studio where there is no computer CONTROLLING the synths, Desk, Effects racks etc, they are using computers. I am aware of the difference between this and using em to actually perform the music
but the point with certain types of music is that the lines blur. Ask Brian Eno.
3. Sorry to confuse you, when i said 'bang out' i meant write music that a majority of people would find pleasing, justifying a record company to do all the above for you. If its so easy, you should be able to manage it.
As to your point about REAL bands having to struggle, what you fail to realise is that most people DONT LIKE THEM. Most of the record buying public like s club 7 and westlife, which is why these acts make so much for the record companys in the short term. Cradle of filth do not appeal to a fraction of that audience. Bands like that will ALWAYS struggle. sorry mate, its not a perfect world. Unless your referring to bands that actually play 'real' instruments. Well last time i checked, U2 were doing allright for themselves, as were newer acts like Coldplay.
I also hate that attidude of its not real if it cant be played live. ffs. im not even going to go there.

Karl Hungus

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dustaz:
Ok, there really isnt any point in quoting you. so heres some points:
1. I apologise profusly, you did indeed say all dance music sucks. I dont see any difference between that sort of sweeping generalisation and saying all computer music sucks tho.
2. ALL bands use computers to some degree. Unless they are recording in some timewarped studio where there is no computer CONTROLLING the synths, Desk, Effects racks etc, they are using computers. I am aware of the difference between this and using em to actually perform the music
but the point with certain types of music is that the lines blur. Ask Brian Eno.
3. Sorry to confuse you, when i said 'bang out' i meant write music that a majority of people would find pleasing, justifying a record company to do all the above for you. If its so easy, you should be able to manage it.
As to your point about REAL bands having to struggle, what you fail to realise is that most people DONT LIKE THEM. Most of the record buying public like s club 7 and westlife, which is why these acts make so much for the record companys in the short term. Cradle of filth do not appeal to a fraction of that audience. Bands like that will ALWAYS struggle. sorry mate, its not a perfect world. Unless your referring to bands that actually play 'real' instruments. Well last time i checked, U2 were doing allright for themselves, as were newer acts like Coldplay.
I also hate that attidude of its not real if it cant be played live. ffs. im not even going to go there.</font>

Moby? He plays proper isntruments live, and recording.

And about bands using computers in recording studios...
Thats like a trick comment. But it doesn't work really?
Seeying that I was talking about music composed completely on computers.

And people like S Club 7 because S Club 7 have had the most money thrown at them.
ie. Promotions, radio time, advertising, touring, air time in music stores.
People buy what they hear.
I worked in a music store, and one day I stuck on A Perfect Circle.
And someone bought it instantly.
Last copy in the store, and I put it on for five minutes, and it was sold.

Same thing in this place where my friend DJ's.
I brought along an Old Man's Child CD.
My friend played a song from it, and a couple of people asked what it was, and could they buy it in town. Which of course they couldn't.
Because there is only one music store in Ireland that stocks Old Man's Child. Namely Sound cellar.
Yet when people heard the stuff, they loved it!
And they wanted to buy it.

It's about what people hear.
Not nessicaraly what they like.

How can you know what you really like if all you hear is S Club 7???

Dustaz

sigh.

what exactly was your point about moby? Having seen The Orb and Orbital live tho, i can tell you it was a good deal better than the last time i saw Metallica. Im pretty sure that neither the orb or orbital did very much on stage, but they were both great gigs. I quite liked metallica the last time i saw them (not sure what year, black album tour in the point) but that gig was **** . It all comes down to taste. For example, i think all goth music is crap, that doesnt mean all goth music IS crap, i just think it is. However, saying 'ALL dance music IS crap' or 'If you cant play a song live, then theres no point, is very very wrong'.

Never heard of the bands you used as examples, so i cant fully comment. BUt going back to other bands you mentioned, Record companies would not push bands like Cradle of Filth because no matter how many times people would hear them, they wouldnt like them. They arent 'Mass Market'.
Err, im not going to post any more on this, cos i dont want the topic locked

Karl Hungus

My point about Moby was that it's THAT kind of music, yet he still uses proper instruments, live and recording.

Because of a Point you made...
"I also hate that attidude of its not real if it cant be played live."

See the relevence?

And as for record companies not pushing Cradle Of Filth?
They have their OWN record company now.
They also sold over 2 million albums worldwide, mich makes them the biggest selling Black Metal band in history.

Also, different record companies produce different kinds of music.

My point being, "MASS MARKET" is whatever has the most money thrown at them.

Remember there was a HUGE boom in Death Metal in the early nineties?
Bands like Canibal Corpse and Morbid Angel were absolutley HUGE!

These bands are, what you might call unlistenable, even so compared to Cradle Of Filth.
Yet they made it huge!

Why is this I ask you?
Because it was the *IN* thing at the time.
Just like thrash Metal was the in thing in the eighties.
Back when bands like WASP were selling just as much as any spice girls or gum like that.

It's NOT peoples prefference, it's marketing, and it's advertisement.

The only difference is that NOW, it's not the bands that are selling themselves.
It's the record companies putting together their OWN bands, so that they can dictate what is popular more easily, and make more money off it.

harVee

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And FFS!
I AM NOT A GIRL! [/B]</font>

Eh, what's wrong with being a girl, I have lots of friends who are girls and they are all dead sound (although one's a goth and i don't really like her anymore).
It's obvious from all your posts over the last couple of months that you are a very close minded inDUHvidual, you really should get out more.
It might be that old chicken and egg thing:
I wear black cos life is sh!t/ Life is sh!t cos i wear black.
put on a yellow t-chirt and just be happy.

Dustaz

ok, last reply i promise
Moby uses a mix of both analogue and electronic instruments, both live and in the studio.

2 million units is not a lot in the grand scale of things.
Bands like wasp (haha, thrash metal, right) NEVER sold as many records as the spice girls. I have no idea how many albums the spice girls have sold but i would say its past 30 million anyway. Mariah Caray has sold something like 70 million records (correct me if im wrong), I hate her, but its what people want really.

If these black metal bands had the potential to sell that many records, they would be pushed to the mass market. Execs dont give a toss whether the music is good, just what if it sells. Canibal Corpse are huge? wtf.

Record Companies putting together their own bands is not a new thing. Ever heard of the Monkees?

Look, life is unfair and the music business is one of the most unfair business in life.
get over it, take off the makeup and smile mate

Kali

Primal Scream - Inner Flight
will be my only contribution to this lively debate.

Dustaz

mmmm, inner flight. mind you , most of primal screams stuff l like. Screamadelica is one of me favorite albums, but i like dancing to some of it and theres so much electronica on it, it must be crap.

-ADREN-

Personaly I like almost every type of music and most bands inside those types of music I really like... of course there is the personal favourites. But ffs!!! what ever type of music S club 7 and Westlife are in well ffs that should be burnt banned and eaten by ehhh.... somthing... yeah well any how what I am saying is anything that sounds damm good whether it be kick as Rock / Punk Rock / Dance / Rap / and on and on and on..... JUST NOT THOSE RADIO TAKING OVER SAD MOTHER ****S OF **** FAGS WESLIFE AND THM .... argh ****ing of is what it it.!!

mrblue

Ah yes, the old *goths versus the world* situation. Don't get me wrong, I love goths, the only problem is that they hate everyone...by their very nature. They should learn to chill. Morcheeba could teach them a thing or two.

*listen to them, the children of the night, what sweet music they make*

_CreeD_

The black inside/outside thing is a bit silly. Form my experience there are 2 types of goths. The silly ones with a point to prove about how dark the world is etc. (The type of people who turn vegetarian and consistently protest everytime you eat meat, and then drop the whole thing a month later), and the real ones.....
I'm not a goth, but I have been called such many times. I wear all black, I listen to a lot of 'gothic' (If there is such a thing) music. My last girlfriend was probably the most gothic person I've ever met, yet you'd never know from the outside. It isn't all eyeliner and "Life-is-pain".

Oh yeah

I'm not a Goth either. I don't want to be... categorised. Some, or indeed many, of my opinions may coincide with Gothic ones, but I don't clame to be a Goth. You wind up restricting what you will allow yourself to think.

AngelWhore- did you go see PLacebo in Dublin? They rocked! But alas, no spite and malice.

--Kaiser--

I'm with AngelWhore on this one.

The difference between Industrial Metal and Dance music is HUGE, even though both use similar drum machines, synthesisers etc.

Dance music is for people off their heads on ecstasy, or just have a sh|t taste in music.

Karl Hungus

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ****???

Hey HarVee... Thanks for throwing cliches at me.

I can't honestly beleive you people are taking things this seriously?
Now I was told I was taking things far too seriously here, but jesus! You guys take the biscuit!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dustaz:
ok, last reply i promise
Moby uses a mix of both analogue and electronic instruments, both live and in the studio.

2 million units is not a lot in the grand scale of things.
Bands like wasp (haha, thrash metal, right) NEVER sold as many records as the spice girls. I have no idea how many albums the spice girls have sold but i would say its past 30 million anyway. Mariah Caray has sold something like 70 million records (correct me if im wrong), I hate her, but its what people want really.

If these black metal bands had the potential to sell that many records, they would be pushed to the mass market. Execs dont give a toss whether the music is good, just what if it sells. Canibal Corpse are huge? wtf.

Record Companies putting together their own bands is not a new thing. Ever heard of the Monkees?

Look, life is unfair and the music business is one of the most unfair business in life.
get over it, take off the makeup and smile mate</font>

I mean... "Look, life is unfair"?
WTF???
I'm just having a debate on my views on music.
I couldn't give a sh!te if everyone on boards disagrees with me, but I thought this was quite a laugh argueing about musical tastes and all this stuff.
If you think it's me trying to "Fight The System" or any **** like that. If thats what you think, you are just taking this far too seriously.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by harVee:
It's obvious from all your posts over the last couple of months that you are a very close minded inDUHvidual, you really should get out more.
It might be that old chicken and egg thing:
I wear black cos life is sh!t/ Life is sh!t cos i wear black.
put on a yellow t-chirt and just be happy.
</font>

I wasn't really here a couple of months. Was I?
I mean, I only really started posting, what, about two weeks ago?
I mean, come on... This really is just throwing cliches around.
SHOW ME this closed mindedness of mine!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Oh yeah:
I'm not a Goth either. I don't want to be... categorised. Some, or indeed many, of my opinions may coincide with Gothic ones, but I don't clame to be a Goth. You wind up restricting what you will allow yourself to think.

AngelWhore- did you go see PLacebo in Dublin? They rocked! But alas, no spite and malice.</font>

No, I didn't go to the placebo gig... I wanted to badly, but no money.
And about restricting yourself? Not true.
It's like saying you restrict yourself based on what country you are from.
An Irishman isn't going to be a steriotype who never travels outside of the country, is he?


Bah, I'm just leaving this arguement alone now...
It WAS a good discussion, but it's just a pile of **** now.

Dr. Loon

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AngelWhore:
...

...thats the stupidest thing I've heard out of you yet...

And that says a lot.

Any gimp with a drum machine could do that kind of ****.
Or you could just smack a bass drum in consession every 2 seconds.

Absolutly skill-less, pointless, meaningless, cold, emotionless music.
I can't stand ANY kind of dance crap.</font>

Are you a musician Angelwhore? Just because you're a possible goth (i'm not sure) or metal head or whatever, which Iused to be, doesn't mean to say, becaue it's not drums, bass, guitars, etc...that it's not music. You're talking out of your **** .
My range of music goes from heavy metal to jazz to bluees to hip hop to rap.....I respect the fact that you listen to bands which I wouldn't go near, I think they're ******, you don't, that's fine. But I don't think they're talentless. I'm a drummer and I listened to bands such as metallica and sepultura growing up. I know that they're some of the best, most talented musicians in the world.
The only people I have no respect for is boy/girl bands, they truly are ****, they can't play, sing, write....anything.

Oh yeah

"It's like saying you restrict yourself based on what country you are from."

That's not what I meant. I think that for me, I can't try to call myself a Goth or a nerd or whatever anybody wants to call me. When you (or maybe this is just me) start to try and define who you are, find your inner self, and all the usual ******** you wind up analysing everything you do and say to make sure it's you. I've stopped doing that. Whatever I say, I say. My opinions can change rapidly. I once spent 20 mins arguing in a class that abortion was different to murder, to half the students. Then somebody made a rather excellent point. I spent the other 20 mins arguing that, in fact, it is murder. I'm not gonna get stuck into the details, but that's an example. I like being able to change what I think, to always remain open-minded, and I never want to try to fit into a stereotype. Nevertheless, I'm sure I do. Stereotypes exist for a reason.

Karl Hungus

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Oh yeah:
When you (or maybe this is just me) start to try and define who you are, find your inner self, and all the usual ******** you wind up analysing everything you do and say to make sure it's you. </font>

I don't think so...
Probably just the way you think. I can't argue with you on that.

But the way I see it is this:
I'm not trying to define who I am by being goth.
Goth is just something I feel comfortable with.
I love the music, and the style of dress and the people.
I'm not trying to fit into a steriotype.

But I won't bother saying anything more about that stuff... This is a music thread isn't it?
Music board anyway...

red_ice

You all seem to be mixing RAP with hiphop, RAP is all this "ohh ill pop a cap in yo asss N1gga" or "im a homie and ill smoke a phat Blun7" Thats RAP not hiphop remember. Hiphop is breakdancing and graffiti and its more or less a way of life, unlike rap which is ****. I just wanted to see how open minded people are about music, coz i dont mind listening to limp bizkit or papa roach, that shows i am open minded to music, unlike all you people who are saying hiphop is ****, when i bet you have never even heard a good hiphop song

red_ice

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mrblue:
They should learn to chill. Morcheeba could teach them a thing or two.
</font>

Ohh yeah, i love a bit or Morch, Sea is a great song, but another point about hiphop, it takes in all the aspects of peoples feelings, i h8 to use this as an example but 2pac - changes is a song aimed at peace. then you got party songs like Mo Money Mo Problems - mase, and these are the things that other types of music can learn from.
As i saw earlier, someone mentioned that "Goths h8 everyone" in a way its true, but also its not. I have m8s in school that are UBER GOTH ! and they are better m8s than my "Dance schwweeeaahh" m8s (excuse my terms). As i learned from the two mixes of people, i find that the goths are more friendly, they dont judge you by your looks unlike others. TBH i know 90% of the goths and grungers in templebar outside of the music center and they are gr8 m8s.
The point of this post is to prove that i am not a "Goth/Gunger" hater.
Its not in my nature to h8 people like that for no reason. But the thing that ****ed me off was all this Hiphop is ****e, and this is commin form peopls that never gave it a chance.
Ive said my piece. Ill still reply later

Kali

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by red_ice:
TBH i know 90% of the goths and grungers in templebar outside of the music center and they are gr8 m8s.</font>

hahahahaha, thats not something you want to be admitting

Oh yeah

Why not?


I've got no problem with hiphop. Or rap. I can't say I've heard an awful lot but it (my apologies, they both) seem to be fairly solid stuff. I can't listen to everything that's out there, I can just vaguely aim at something that appeals to me, more than the rest.

---

Looks to me like that grass could use a little H2Oh Yeah!

PiE

For the love of sweet...

There is nooooooooo answer to any of this! Each to his own. Ssh!

http://www.evilgerald.com/Issues/Issue6/92goth.htm

PiE

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by red_ice:
TBH i know 90% of the goths and grungers in templebar outside of the music center and they are gr8 m8s </font>

90% of them are spoilt Dalkey dickheads trying to **** mummy off.

Lucutus

this seems to have run it's course...