The "Dont be a slapper" add

Belisarius

Im not sure if this is the right board, I thought about doing it on television ,anyway mods feel free to move it somewhere

I guess everyones seen the add on TV. Sweet fatgirl walking down her secondary school hall, Sees a boy she likes (Son of Nico I recon) .As she makes her way up she begins to remember she was plastered the night before, making her the but of jokes etc.

What do people think of this? As a fairly cynical young man I laughed my arse off when I saw it first but if I were a woman Id be fairly annoyed at the condescending tone of it, even if the points being raised are relevant.Has the problem of young female alcoholism *if indeed there is one* gotten to such a point that it merits exposure on national televion or is it too far? Im particularly interested in female reactions in particular as its causing murder with the better half of my house what with the "youll never get a husband that way" attitude

aidan_walsh

Its an underage drinking ad, nothing at all to do with being a slapper.

Is that what they call a Freudian Slip, me wonders?

GuanYin

I think the most important message in the ad is that grey school uniforms make girls look about 2 stone heavier. STAMP THEM OUT!

Belisarius

Well It came on the heels of yet some more random statistics last that theese phantom girls drink more alcohol in a night than I could put away in a week etc etc. I think it does have a more focused target demographic.Maybe slapper is the wrong term I dunno about the semantics of the word as it doesnt seem to be in my dictionary but you get the idea


Edit:Actually maybe Humanities for this eh?

Conspiracy

I saw said advert about an hour ago.

(Classic with the Nico btw )

I thought she looked very bloody young actually. Who is the target here? Whats the point of the ad? To make drunk girls embarresed about getting drunk?

I believe the last one was the guy in the bar a la "Being John Malkovich" with 50 of him around himself - and all of them causing hassell. "Don't see a great night wasted" was the message.

I think it's absolute crap - all of it to be honest. To think that these ads would have an effect. They are on telly, because they have to be. The budget has to be spend, and it is being spent on this crap.

Seeing drunk enbarressed people will not stop people getting drunk. When you go out to get drunk - you see lots of people doing stupid drunk things. Apart from fighting and agro - someone getting sh*tfaced and falling over will not stop them from drinking again.

In answer, I suspect it's a follow up to the last ad. The guy in the last ad was nid to late 20's. The girl in this ad is mid to late teens. Interesting choice to highlight the problem agegroup. I don't see why they should single out schoolgirls. They shouldn't be in the pubs, and if perhaps the age limit law was implemented, there might be some success.

Stupid useless ad - won't have the desired effect for the money invested in it.

GuanYin

Well it may work on the very impressional, but no more than parental scaremongering. Its no coolchoices.ie however, thank Jebus for small mercies....

GreeBo

Conspiracy wrote:

Stupid useless ad - won't have the desired effect for the money invested in it.

How would you approach the problem?

aidan_walsh

Conspiracy wrote:

I thought she looked very bloody young actually. Who is the target here? Whats the point of the ad? To make drunk girls embarresed about getting drunk?

I should think thats it, yeah.

Conspiracy wrote:

Seeing drunk enbarressed people will not stop people getting drunk. When you go out to get drunk - you see lots of people doing stupid drunk things. Apart from fighting and agro - someone getting sh*tfaced and falling over will not stop them from drinking again.

I think the point was to try to make people think about what they must look like when they are drunk. Given that people are so willing to cast judgement without comparison to their own actions, I think its a worthy point.

Conspiracy wrote:

In answer, I suspect it's a follow up to the last ad. The guy in the last ad was nid to late 20's. The girl in this ad is mid to late teens. Interesting choice to highlight the problem agegroup. I don't see why they should single out schoolgirls. They shouldn't be in the pubs, and if perhaps the age limit law was implemented, there might be some success.

I don't believe they were singling out any demographic apart from underage drinkers here. And why is it really so interesting a choice of age group, having worked in a pub I can tell you that this is exactly the age group that the problem majoratively exists within. You're not going to find many under 16 year olds out drinking, but after that general age...

Belisarius

heh nico makes me want to actually start smoking,hes easily my favourite irish celebrity.Quite a cult following around my parts

Proabably an indication of how effective these things are

RobertFoster

GreeBo wrote:

How would you approach the problem?

Prohibition

Conspiracy

Hi GreeBo,

It's a cultural problem. I believe the answer is largly a full cross the board alcohol advertising ban.

Take smoking. The only reason that the oppertunity to ban it arose, is because smoking harms the evolution of the human race. It kills us - and now we all know that.

With drinking, it is dressed up as the social lubricant - and this is done through the adverts. Branding - and guys swimming 300 miles for a pint of Guinness. But remember "Drink Sensibly". Diagio are the devil !!!

With so much advertising in place, and no apparent reason to ban it, the culture will continue.
As long as Tony O'Reilly is getting money from Heinekin and Diagio etc., he's happy. As long as he's happy, Bertie's happy. RTE are also happy, because unlike BBC, they have ads, and the Director General out there benifits from the advert revenue too. None of them really want to see it go anywhere, because there is too much money being made off of it. TV3, are of course the same, only they like O'Reilly are private.

So now, ask these guys to speak out against drinking - ask them to put an advert with a family breaking up, a wife beating her husband with an iron, and they will run a mile. Not only would it upset us, but it would be bad for the TV/ Media outlets advertisers not only from the drink sector, but anybody advertising around that advert too - because people would be in no mood for buying - just for reflection.

Advertising is the devil. We have been programmed since birth to believe that drinking is the thing that we want to do once we hit 18. So keen are most of us, that we start earlier - at 13/14/15. I remember not even knowing why I wanted to drink, I just did. Isn't that strange??

Ban the advertising and that would go a long way to reducing the problem.
Unfortunately, there is politically no reason to ban alcohol adverts.

After all, the politicians will just say it's the people who can't control them selves, not the drink manufacturers faults.

Chinafoot

Conspiracy wrote:

I don't see why they should single out schoolgirls. They shouldn't be in the pubs

yes, you're right they shouldnt be in pubs.....isnt that why she was at a house party in the advert? and as for "singling out schoolgirls".....this is most likely one ad of many in the "think about it" (or whatever it is) campaign.
its hardly a stupid, useless ad. if anything, it might be raising awareness for parents who dont know what their kids are up to on a saturday night.
i work in part time in a petrol station and friday and saturday nights are unreal for teenagers out on the knack falling into the garage to use the jacks. most of them are around 13 or 14 years of age in an absolute mess.
personally, i had no interest in drink til i was around 16, same with most of my mates, and even then i never got into that much of a state. but everyone is different i guess and society has certainly changed a lot in the last few years.

but anyway, instead of simply calling the ads crap and useless, why not suggest an alternative?

aidan_walsh

Conspiracy wrote:

Hi GreeBo,

It's a cultural problem. I believe the answer is largly a full cross the board alcohol advertising ban.

Take smoking. The only reason that the oppertunity to ban it arose, is because smoking harms the evolution of the human race. It kills us - and now we all know that.

With drinking, it is dressed up as the social lubricant - and this is done through the adverts. Branding - and guys swimming 300 miles for a pint of Guinness. But remember "Drink Sensibly". Diagio are the devil !!!

With so much advertising in place, and no apparent reason to ban it, the culture will continue.
As long as Tony O'Reilly is getting money from Heinekin and Diagio etc., he's happy. As long as he's happy, Bertie's happy. RTE are also happy, because unlike BBC, they have ads, and the Director General out there benifits from the advert revenue too. None of them really want to see it go anywhere, because there is too much money being made off of it. TV3, are of course the same, only they like O'Reilly are private.

So now, ask these guys to speak out against drinking - ask them to put an advert with a family breaking up, a wife beating her husband with an iron, and they will run a mile. Not only would it upset us, but it would be bad for the TV/ Media outlets advertisers not only from the drink sector, but anybody advertising around that advert too - because people would be in no mood for buying - just for reflection.

Advertising is the devil. We have been programmed since birth to believe that drinking is the thing that we want to do once we hit 18. So keen are most of us, that we start earlier - at 13/14/15. I remember not even knowing why I wanted to drink, I just did. Isn't that strange??

Ban the advertising and that would go a long way to reducing the problem.
Unfortunately, there is politically no reason to ban alcohol adverts.

After all, the politicians will just say it's the people who can't control them selves, not the drink manufacturers faults.

An intelligently put, if slightly naieve responce. After all, Ireland had a reputation for drinking and fighting long before television or radio advertising was invented.

I also think its wrong to blame the fact that we accept drinking as the problem, alcohol is consumed the world over. Rather, its that we accept drinking in excess. There is not yet enough done to prosecute pubs that allow people to leave sh*t-faced, and nowhere enough being done to educate young people about drinking responsibly. The best way to make the problem worse is to hide it, so incentives like this are a way forward. However, along its worthless, its needs to be backed up repeatedly until its finally pounded into the consciousness of some generation that going out on a weekend to simply get ratarsed isn't the way to go.

is_that_so

Have seen ad, not very good to be honest but can see where it's aimed. Then again I aint 15. Sadly I know of young ones like that. Ultimate problem is we the Irish people. As long as we lash the beer into us they'll follow suit. And Nico is rather cool paradoxically. Lumps of lungs are more effective

Conspiracy

doodle_sketch wrote:

I think the point was to try to make people think about what they must look like when they are drunk. Given that people are so willing to cast judgement without comparison to their own actions, I think its a worthy point.

I don't think there are many people who don't know how it looks to be falling over drunk. If they themselves go drinking certainly in Dublin, they know what it looks like.

doodle_sketch wrote:

I don't believe they were singling out any demographic apart from underage drinkers here. And why is it really so interesting a choice of age group, having worked in a pub I can tell you that this is exactly the age group that the problem majoratively exists within. You're not going to find many under 16 year olds out drinking, but after that general age...

To think that they just randomly picked a young girl is incorrect. I would be scared to see the budget of making that advert. The girl was picked on purpose - that is a certainty. You say you have worked in a pub. Have you worked in many pubs? My friends are all around 30, and I assure you, I've been at anough parties and pub gatherings to know that your statement is completely false.

Belisarius

Whatever about the drinking itself Its add itself that strikes me,the sheer audactity.Its very direct and quite assured in its tone,Its very plainly telling women what(or rather what not)to do
I would have expected any ad addressing this to be a bit more sensitive considering the ambiguity of opinion on the matter,despite years of being told about the results of binge drinking, Indeed seeing it in city centres on saturday nights people still do what they wanna do.So considering the response to the efforts previous awareness campaigns its maybe unsuprising theyve opted for the harder hitting drink driving type ad. The difference between binge drinking and drink driving is that there is clearly negative effects to drink driving,effects grave enough to warrant Indignation against drink drivers. The same clarity isnt there with binge drinking, or at least it isnt percieved so.Few would argue that binge drinking isnt bad for young girls,but perhaps its their perogative? If not why isnt the same autonomy of concience awarded to say...a 25 year old man?

double standards, nany state behaviour... Im honestly suprised women arent up in arms about this.... women at a minimum

(this really should be in Humanities)

Chinafoot

Conspiracy wrote:

The girl was picked on purpose - that is a certainty.

and next week there'll probably be another ad aimed at underage males.
isnt the whole point of these ads to raise awareness of underage, and not just binge, drinking??

GreeBo

Belisarius wrote:

Im honestly suprised women arent up in arms about this

Isn't this just feminism gone mad? The ad is trying to stop young girls from getting plastered and you have a problem with it because its only showing a girl?
Would it be ok if they also had a version with a guy, a black guy, a black girl, an asian guy, an asian girl,a blind asian guy, etc, etc?

Where exactly do you draw the line?
Wood, Trees. :cool:

Conspiracy

doodle_sketch wrote:

An intelligently put, if slightly naieve responce.

Why naieve? I'm curious about that. Bear in mind - I'm not a big drinker. I drink once a month at most.

doodle_sketch wrote:

After all, Ireland had a reputation for drinking and fighting long before television or radio advertising was invented.

Not true - not on the scale that drinking is now. Ireland didn't have the money to drink like we do now. Especially not a the young age we all start at. Advertising has been around for years - it just wasnt as clever as it is now, nor was it as ubiquitous. [/QUOTE]

doodle_sketch wrote:

I also think its wrong to blame the fact that we accept drinking as the problem, alcohol is consumed the world over. Rather, its that we accept drinking in excess.

That is very true. My european friends will say that drinking is getting bigger everywhere, not just in Ireland, but...all that my friends hear in work on a Monday morning is discussions about how nasty a hangover was and my hangover was worse than yours type comments.

doodle_sketch wrote:

There is not yet enough done to prosecute pubs that allow people to leave sh*t-faced, and nowhere enough being done to educate young people about drinking responsibly.

That is my point. There is too much being done to make drinking acceptable, and not 1% of that done to counteract it. That's why I think the advertising is the problem.

doodle_sketch wrote:

The best way to make the problem worse is to hide it, so incentives like this are a way forward. However, along its worthless, its needs to be backed up repeatedly until its finally pounded into the consciousness of some generation that going out on a weekend to simply get ratarsed isn't the way to go.

Again, it is not in the interests of the government to spend huge amounts on counteracting an industry that contributes to the national income as much as the drink industry does in this country.

I suggest that you read Noam Chumsky's Manufacturing Consent.
Also, investigate "Edward L. Bernays " - the "Father of Spin".
A true helper of Satan as the late great Bill Hicks would have said.

We as a race take advertising for granted, and think perhaps that it is avoidable. It is not.

Bernay's idea was to make people want things they didn't want.
To control the public, without them knowing they were being controlled.

Advertising is the main key. Without the ads, we wouldn't want any of it.

Look at any alcohol advertisement. Look at the image it portrays.
Match that up with how you feel after 4 or 5 pints.
Not the same. I'm not swimming to new york, and I'm not flying around the pub airspace sucking on zero gravity bailies bubbles. We are being fooled.

Why do we get absolutely hammered? Because it's an escape, and the escape that we are allowed by the powers that be has that effect when you overindulge on it - unlike other intoxicating illegal substitutes. You want to let your self go and get intoxicated, that's the only legal option, and thats where you go because so does every body else because we are programmed that way !!!!

Belisarius

Well As i said earlier I laughed when I first saw it , It is genuinely funny in a Laughing at you way , you being the predicament of young girls in general .For me Binge drinking Girls is a neutral , possibly a good if theyre pretty but either way Im always far more concerned about the binge drinking boys marauding the streets at night.

Its the ad that interests me though, I thought women would have been incensed by the message of the ad that girls who drink too much will basically die used bitter and alone like that aunt on your mothers side, Its a bit of a low blow ihmo

For the issue of drinking itself I proabably do feel girls are out of control but who isnt these days? The argument that they said the same thing about mini-skirts way back when is proabably a cheap argument but its true.You cant really legislate for youth culture, Just sort of nag through ads like this, but its nagging with such a sharp edge that would do my grandmother proud

aidan_walsh

Conspiracy wrote:

To think that they just randomly picked a young girl is incorrect. I would be scared to see the budget of making that advert. The girl was picked on purpose - that is a certainty.

I never said it was random, I know how the media works better than to assume that. And while yes this is a greater drinking problem amongst young women, there is also a signifigant problem with men, so to assume that the ad was only aimed at women is also incorrect.

Conspiracy wrote:

You say you have worked in a pub. Have you worked in many pubs? My friends are all around 30, and I assure you, I've been at anough parties and pub gatherings to know that your statement is completely false.

4 or 5 pubs, actually, including a number that were primarily tourist and party orientated. I have seen the most of what can be magined, cleaned up the messes, etc.
And I still go out and drink. And I don't do it to excess unless its an occasion, i.e. birthday, though there was a couple of months when "real life" was taking too much of a toll and I made a bit of a turn towards it. To say that I have experienced the worst of it first hand would be an exaggeration, though I have seen it, both in friends and in customers.

Conspiracy wrote:

Why naieve? I'm curious about that. Bear in mind - I'm not a big drinker. I drink once a month at most.

It just seemed to me that you were willing to point the blame at one single cause and not acknowledge that there are other factors in this. A problem is rarely made up of one big element, its a whole lot of little ones. Advertising is one of these, admitedly, but its not the be all, end all of the issue.

Conspiracy wrote:

Not true - not on the scale that drinking is now. Ireland didn't have the money to drink like we do now. Especially not a the young age we all start at. Advertising has been around for years - it just wasnt as clever as it is now, nor was it as ubiquitous.

Enough to earn a reputuation that has become a tainting stereotype. And its getting worse. There are people who see topping these "league tables" as something to be taken as a source of pride, I've heard them. Its a minority, but its present.

Conspiracy wrote:

That is very true. My european friends will say that drinking is getting bigger everywhere, not just in Ireland, but...all that my friends hear in work on a Monday morning is discussions about how nasty a hangover was and my hangover was worse than yours type comments.

This is some of the scariest reading I have come across on the topic. That it has come so far that people are recommending ways to hide it, and from experience, suggests that there is a very serious problem that has yet to really come to the fore.

Conspiracy wrote:

I suggest that you read Noam Chumsky's Manufacturing Consent.
Also, investigate "Edward L. Bernays " - the "Father of Spin".
A true helper of Satan as the late great Bill Hicks would have said.

I might just take you up on that, though with my current workload, it might take some time to get around to it.

Conspiracy wrote:

Why do we get absolutely hammered? Because it's an escape, and the escape that we are allowed by the powers that be has that effect when you overindulge on it - unlike other intoxicating illegal substitutes. You want to let your self go and get intoxicated, that's the only legal option, and thats where you go because so does every body else because we are programmed that way !!!!

There are other forms of escape that aren't advertised and that aren't legal, and we know that there is as big a problem (discounting numbers) amongst our youth. To attribute everything to the power of advertising and nothing to the individual will is incorrect.

aidan_walsh

Belisarius wrote:

For me Binge drinking Girls is a neutral , possibly a good if theyre pretty but either way Im always far more concerned about the binge drinking boys marauding the streets at night.

For the issue of drinking itself I proabably do feel girls are out of control but who isnt these days? The argument that they said the same thing about mini-skirts way back when is proabably a cheap argument but its true.

A fine example of the flawed mentality as ever I've seen one. You seem content to assume that women only turn into slappers after drink, and not violent young thugs. You're wrong.

Belisarius

Im smart enough not to practise what I preach at 3 o clock at night on a saturday, Though In truth Ive not been hassled much in my social night life to date.Experience teaches me I have the most to fear from a certain type of person

Conspiracy

Who is percieved to be the most vulnerable person out there?

The young girl. It's true. The girl aged between 14 - 18 is the most protected. No one wants anything to happen to them, and they represent a fragility. That is what the ad gets at. It's not to stop young girls drinking - because that ad wouldn't stop young girls drinking. It's to make it look like something is being done by the problem.

solas

I think it's a good add to be honest...

"Im particularly interested in female reactions in particular as its causing murder with the better half of my house what with the "youll never get a husband that way" attitude"

this is the best bit about the add strangely enough, this is the message it is conveying to young women. "Be responsible with your drink, or no one will have you/take you seriously"
I don't think the scene would have worked half as well if it was about a 24 year old female office worker getting mash faced at the christmas do in front of her bosses, although I might be wrong. (thinking)
It did play on the fact that ultimately, a womans goal in life is to be decent enough to be considered "attractive", "desireable" to the opposite sex. But this is what a 15 year old female's priorities are....and thats why they targeted that aspect.

jill_valentine

In theory, the ads intent is noble, but I think the original poster hit the nail on the head with "You'll never get a husband that way". It's tone is desperately condescending, but it was doomed from the start because of the audiences prejudices. Putting on my feminist hat for a moment, (or Doc Martens, if you prefer) as any female drinker no doubt suspects on some level, the guy in that ad was probably equally drunk that night. The difference is that image remains intact, if not boosted by his capacity for alcohol. Are we to understand that the makers of the ad have simply abandoned their quest to save the male of the species?

Ba_barbaraAnne

The ads are pretty bad, but it's an awful shame that 'the powers that be' feel the need to target young people in this way.

I was walking down our main street last weekend at about 10.30 pm and saw a young girl completely out of it outside xtravision. Her mates kept trying to prop her up into a sitting position, but she just ended up falling over again.

The worst thing was - a garda walked past and completely ignored the whole thing! Raising awareness is all very well, but if the authorities are not going to do anything about drunkeness on the ground (literally) then the ads are completely pointless.

Sleepy

Ba_barbaraAnne wrote:

The ads are pretty bad, but it's an awful shame that 'the powers that be' feel the need to target young people in this way.

I was walking down our main street last weekend at about 10.30 pm and saw a young girl completely out of it outside xtravision. Her mates kept trying to prop her up into a sitting position, but she just ended up falling over again.

The worst thing was - a garda walked past and completely ignored the whole thing! Raising awareness is all very well, but if the authorities are not going to do anything about drunkeness on the ground (literally) then the ads are completely pointless.

My money would be on the fact that they've brought so many kids home pissed only to receive a barrage of abuse from the parents or to find that the parents don't give a sh|t that they just find it hard to bother any more. It's also quiote possible that they've brought that particular brat home before to such a response so are saving their time to protect the rest of society.

For every child out there drinking themselves into a stupor on a Saturday night, there are two parents elsewhere that should be ashamed of themselves. It's their fault that their kid is a moron, not the states or anyone elses (despite the fact that everyone else has to pay for the mistakes of the parents).

simu

I thought the girl handled her drunkeness quite well. She got to a toilet before she threw up - who can boast of always managing to do that? As others said, I got that "you'll never get a husband" vibe off the ad too - that was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw it. My feminist advice to the girl would be to tell the guy to go f**k himself and tell him that she wouln't sleep with such a judgemental square if he were the last male mammal left on earth.

I'm sick of these public health ads that tell people to do the "right" thing not because it's good in itself but because other people will mock them if they don't (see TV license ads) - we're not all sheep, we don't all live in constant fear of the neighbours' opinions of us. Please take note, o marketing staff of government depts.

So, this ad didn't have quite the intended effect on me but then again, I'm not part of the intended demographic.

Mr E

I think its a good ad, and it gets the message across (although arguably its not as strong as the "Malkovich" ad or the "kill the roses" ad).

I would have reservations about putting it on at 7pm when people are in the middle of eating their dinner/supper though! Jesus....

Waltons

It reminded me of the video for Smack My B!tch Up...

It seems like it should be effective, but similiar ads have shown that this type of thing really doesn't change young people's attitudes towards drinking, and I don't think this one has anything special that will make people instantly put down their drink and go
"Wait, if I do this I might end up a mess and people won't like me"

solas

"She got to a toilet before she threw up - who can boast of always managing to do that?"

I find this funny in one way, I think most people who have taken a drink here have been in this condition once or twice...but it also makes an important point. As Irish people we accept this as normal, it's perfectly ok to go out and get so wasted that puking your guts up is part of the routine.
These ad's are about asking people to respect themselves, the older generation are barely able to do that and tend to lead by example, which is why they are aiming at a younger audience. It's not about underage drinking or even just having a drink, it's about being responsible for yourself and your actions.
If the lass had a little more respect for herself, she might not be so interested in impressing that "judgemental square male mammal" in the first place and more power to her.

While I understand why people might find it upsetting or condescending, there is a lot of truth in it (along with the John malcovich one), I think they are very approximate representations of Irish drinking culture and maybe something we choose not to see as an issue, so we are given a chance to look objectively at it.

I understand the nature of health promotion, for years this country has spent the majority of its health budget on curative measures (hospitalisation, medicine, diagnosis etc..) and the challenge was to shift the emphasis to preventative measures. Locating the root cause and addressing it.
Mary Harney's calls last week to add additional charges on A&E visits which were the result of intoxication is clear evidence that this government is focused on addressing the preventative area of healthcare. (in addition to the smoking ban)
It's time for this country to wake up and take a little responsibility, at the end of the day, it’s your taxes that are paying for the curative approaches which are the consequence of these social health issues.

Heart disease, cancer, liver failure, not to mention the multiple injuries sustained regularly at the weekends costs the taxpayer a small fortune and are the biggest killers in Irish society.

GreeBo

Exactly, imo the ad is not aimed at underage drinkers as much as it as aimed at those who have not started to drink yet.
I think if I was 15 I'd think she (the girl in the ad) looks pretty stupid and not something I'd want to aim for.

Blackjack

Would the message not be "you'll not get the ride if you Blow chunks, keep it real and you'll have to beat them off with a ****ty stick"?.














Sorry, couldn't resist it.

ionapaul

Have to say, I must be a judgemental square too, I don't think much of 16 year olds (or 26 year olds or 36 year olds for that matter) that get completely wasted and puke their guts up. Everyone is judgemental of course.

Could Huey Lewis have it right...it is hip to be square?

luckat

Don't know that it's true that Ireland has always had a reputation for drunken excess.

Only a few years ago we were near the bottom of the European alcohol consumption table - during the Celtic Tiger years when people were working too much to go out and get slaughtered.

Sure, Irish people drank too much in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s; but the difference was that it generally started around 18 or 19. Now it's acceptable for children in their early teens to drink alcohol.

The only way we're going to change this is by having other, more enticing places for these kids to meet. Otherwise they're going to end up wasting their lives by dedicating themselves to the nourishment and further enrichment of wealthy pub-owners and liquor magnates.

GreeBo

luckat wrote:

The only way we're going to change this is by having other, more enticing places for these kids to meet.

Like the field I used to play soccer in when I was 14?
Or the bit of road we used for curbs?
The facilities, if anything, are much better than when I was a teenager and yet I didnt get off my head when I was that age.
Its the failure of society in general, and its my belief that society is controlled by the parents.

Agent Orange

Would her puke really be that colour? I suppose if she was on spirits and the like, maybe. But where were the chunks? Where was the diced carrot? Where were the croutons?

I'm impressed that she managed to covered the toilet with her puke aswell... normally it just dribbles out my mouth like diarrhea out an asshole but she rocketed the toilet with her puke... fair play to her.

Conspiracy

I saw the advert again last night - it really is smak my b1tch up isn't it !!!

The advert wouldn't stop you from drinking - it would make you pity the girl.

Pity not because she is drunk, but pity because of the way she is judged by peers as a result of her actions.

It is exactly the same as the tv licence ad.

The powers that be obviously a)believe or/and b)have sound information, that Irish people are obsessed with what other people think of them.

Eitherway, that is not a good reflection on our society. I'd like to think that I am well able to judge whether my own actions are acceptable to me or not - after all isn't that what matters? Isn't this MY experience?

This is also imprinting a terrible message into the minds of the young in this country. "You should care more about what other people think of you than what you think of yourself".

Nice confidence building there government. Fear Fear Fear Fear !!!!!!!

GreeBo

Conspiracy wrote:

"You should care more about what other people think of you than what you think of yourself".

No, what its saying is that if you are too fick to realise that puking your vodka filled guts up when you are 15 is wrong, then maybe you need someone else to tell you.

Conspiracy

And you don't see a common factor with the TV Licence advert and the public shame message they both send out?

Can the 45 year old business man not make up his own mind either?

When I was 15 and I puked from drinking - I knew it was wrong.
It didn't stop me drinking again and getting hammered though did it?

Boggle

The ad (to me anyway) is pretty representative of the state 1000's of young girls get into every weekend and tries to shame them for it.

No harm!

Whats the fuss about? This ad is aimed at underage drnkers who aren't deemed old enough to make their own choices so cant be considered nanny-ism!)

Conspiracy

Considering it's part of the "Malcovich" advert campaign, wouldn't it be fair to conclude that the same basis of message delivery would be used.

In the "Malcovich" ad, they did the same thing. They tried to shame a later 20's male by the same methods - he was to be embarressed by his peers and how he looked - because he obviously wasn't capable of making his own decisions.

He was later 20's - are late 20 year olds not able to make their own decisions?

The TV ad - same buzz. Are 45 year old sussessfull business men not able?

It's the underlying theme of these adverts that I'm questioning.

Do the powers that be really think it's fair to advertise to us in that way, and to make us so concious of what everybody else thinks of us at all times of the day?
Because for me, while I have good standards, I certainly don't live by other peoples standards

GreeBo

Conspiracy wrote:

And you don't see a common factor with the TV Licence advert and the public shame message they both send out?

Can the 45 year old business man not make up his own mind either?

its not up to him to make up his own mind, its the law!
The ad is there to tell him that if he doesnt pay for his tv then he is a scabby wanker who is breaking the law, because, obviously he drank too much when he was 15 and is now also fick.

Conspiracy wrote:

When I was 15 and I puked from drinking - I knew it was wrong.
It didn't stop me drinking again and getting hammered though did it?

Congratulations, judging by your problems with this ad your drinking seems to have had the expected results on your braincells. :cool:

ionapaul

I disagree with you here, Conspiracy. I think the 'Because I'm Worth It' / 'I'm OK, You're OK' culture that is currently in place in Ireland (imported from the US) is to blame for some of society's ills. Telling children / young adults that 'as long as you're ok with yourself, no matter what you do, everything is fine' sounds like a better idea than it is, IMHO. Unless we are all fine with some of us drinking ourselves to death and engaging in other self-destructive activities. I suppose that might be fine if these activities did not have a knock-on effect on those that know them and society in general.

Like I said in a previous post, I can admit to be judgemental - everyone is, whether they admit it or not or whether it is PC or not to admit it. I'm not a huge fan of Ayn Rand but one part of her philosophy I like is rather than saying 'judge not, lest ye be judged', say 'judge and prepared to be judged'. Before anyone jumps down my throat I am no fan of Rand and even the above position is not always the right one - no point judging to soon afterall!

Conspiracy

judge and prepared to be judged


That results in living in fear and potentially not realising your spiritual and lifes potential.

I want to life life to the full, not to someone elses standards.

I have recently stopped trying to judge people.
I used to see a really overweight person and make a small rude comment to myself. Now, I don't. I say to myself - once they are happy. The same has started to go for everything.

Life is about happiness, not about liveing to others standards.

I try to live my life to a good christian standard, and if someone wants to judge me - fire away. I refuse to be pre-occupied of what every person thinks of me - because many will have a distorted view.

ven0m

Conspiracy wrote:

Life is about happiness, not about liveing to others standards.

I say f**k what other people think about you & I live my life like that. I could care less if people think I'm a jacka$$ or otherwise. I have enough things to worry about without adding what others think - I used to & I used to try live to other's standards or perceptions of HOW I should be..... screw em... either people accept you how you are or they don't... I'm not responsible for how they think, what they think or why they think & I'm certainly no-one's role model neither.....


::: ven0mous :::

GreeBo

Conspiracy wrote:

judge and prepared to be judged
That results in living in fear and potentially not realising your spiritual and lifes potential.

So does not being the "best you can be" i.e getting off your face on a regular basis.
Think about it, I would rather someone point me in the right direction to give me a change of fulfilliing my potential than people walk past me asleep in my own vomit in the gutter in case they tell me something that I dont want to hear.

GreeBo

ven0m wrote:

I used to try live to other's standards or perceptions of HOW I should be..... screw em...

that great advice to 90% of the people, but there are 10% (arguably more) who are not able to live by judging their own behavior.
You are opening the door for chaos and anarchy.

Conspiracy

GreeBo,

Yoiu seem to think I'm some sort of heavy drinker?

I go for a few drinks about once a month - and I mean 5 or 6.
I never drink on an empty stomach.

Whats with your accusation about me having lost brain cells?

You just flaming for fun or have you an intelligent comment to make?

Conspiracy

GreeBo wrote:

that great advice to 90% of the people, but there are 10% (arguably more) who are not able to live by judging their own behavior.
You are opening the door for chaos and anarchy.

Where did you get your figures from?
Have you some data to share with us?
Or did you simply make them up?