How many flops do you see in cash games?

Iago

I'm curious as to how many flops you guys see when you play online, and what are the range of starting hands that you would be willing to play with?

My stats for the last 4 weeks are below, I think I see far too many flops particularily because my win rate is so low. I mostly play in the micro-limit cash games .05/.10 and .10/.20 9 seaters, where you tend to get a cheap flop and that increases the starting hands that I'm willing to play with.

Hands : 2193

Flops Seen: 67%

Games Won: 18%

Showdowns Won: 38%

I'm not sure if this paints a true picture though, generally if I don't hit on the flop I'll fold to a reasonable bet so I'm not losing much money, I find that if I do hit I'm winning 3-4 times more on that hand than I'm losing on a hand where I fold on the flop or turn..

Last night for example I was playing on a .10/.20 table for around an hour or so and went from $40 to $98 before I logged off, but saw 2 or 3 out of every 5 flops...small money I know but I do it more for an interest than anything else.

So what range of starting hands do you play and what is a "good" percentage of flops seen...

Hectorjelly

Iago wrote:

I'm curious as to how many flops you guys see when you play online, and what are the range of starting hands that you would be willing to play with?

My stats for the last 4 weeks are below, I think I see far too many flops particularily because my win rate is so low. I mostly play in the micro-limit cash games .05/.10 and .10/.20 9 seaters, where you tend to get a cheap flop and that increases the starting hands that I'm willing to play with.

Hands : 2193

Flops Seen: 67%

Games Won: 18%

Showdowns Won: 38%

I'm not sure if this paints a true picture though, generally if I don't hit on the flop I'll fold to a reasonable bet so I'm not losing much money, I find that if I do hit I'm winning 3-4 times more on that hand than I'm losing on a hand where I fold on the flop or turn..

Last night for example I was playing on a .10/.20 table for around an hour or so and went from $40 to $98 before I logged off, but saw 2 or 3 out of every 5 flops...small money I know but I do it more for an interest than anything else.

So what range of starting hands do you play and what is a "good" percentage of flops seen...

I wrote a long answer to this but boards swallowed it. Basically you need to be seeing about 20/22 % of flops, there are several reasons why you might see more in a game like this

1 Terrible players that you can outplay on the flop
2 You wont be charged that much for draws, so playing drawing hands out of position isnt so awkward
3 The stacks can be very, very deep.

Some simple rules for general tight play, amend as how you feel fit.

Dont play an Ace lower than 10
Dont play any king with a kicker lower than J
Dont play QJ unless suited
Play any pair for implied odds
Dont play any suited connectors lower than 89s.
Dont play cards just because theyre suited, except Axs

Its very easy to pick up bad habits. Dont! Good luck.

DeVore

I'm a little looser then HJ but pretty much follow the same rules. I'll play A8 and A9 if the table has been playing worse. K10 is a monster! and I'll call with QJ unsuited but other then that I agree.

Your stats are way out of wack in a normal game, I cant speak about micro limits.
Far too many flops seen and way too few showdowns won which implies you are calling (or being called) to the river and losing the showdown.

I posted my stats from PP here a while ago, though I have to say, I dont enjoy Partypoker and havent played much of it lately.

DeV.

Iago

Yep, I think it's the low blinds that bring me into more flops, tbh when I'm playing at .5/.10 and .10/.20 tables I'll go into most flops with any suited connectors, Axs or Kxs as well as the usual suspects QT and up and PP's.

Funnily enough my STT and MTT stats are almost identical to each other but are the opposite of my cash game stats..

Hands: 978
Flops Seen: 32%
Showdowns won : 57%
Games Won: 21%

still a low games won % but I'm playing in far less hands as well. In the MTT's my games won stat is down at 15%

I'm going to move up to the .10/.20 and .25/.50 tables exclusively and reset my stats. I'll play a little tighter and see how I get on..although you know me DeV I'm already one of the tightest players around!

Hectorjelly

Those stats are from VC arent they? Whats your username?

Iago

Hectorjelly wrote:

Those stats are from VC arent they? Whats your username?

They are indeed, looking for a new fishy friend??

Username on VC is golly

Krusty_Clown

Disclaimer: Comments are based on the last few weeks of play..

The VC micro limits (5c/10c) are a little unusual, in that the blinds are extremely low (you'll usually see a flop for 10c), however the larger pay-offs tend to be un-proportional (in the $5 - $15 range if you have the nuts), so playing a bit looser (loser?!) seems to be quite profitable. So my hand selections would tend to be a little lower in the hierarchy.. I guess this kind of play can be habit-forming though and detrimental in any other kind of game..

Iago

that's what I've found as well, you get a very cheap flop and there are so many players who will go all-in with top pair regardless of kicker even on an average pot you might get $4-$6.

Had one hand the other day where I limped with 55, flop was 5 A 3 with two clubs, I bet $2 and it was folded around with 2 callers. Turn was 8c and I bet $2 and had one caller. River was 8d giving me the house, I bet $2 again and a guy raised it to $20

he'd been playing pretty loose going over the top on everyone, so I called him. He had a K high flush and my house was good..there was over $50 in that pot and this was at the .10/.20 limit level.

Also busted KarlH yesterday morning, but the less said about that the better

bohsman

lol I know you stick by those rules to the letter Hector splitting a 200+euro pot where I have 73s and youve 74s then coming on here saying youre a rock

Hectorjelly

Never said I was a rock, I just gave "Some simple rules for , general tight play amend as how you feel fit."

Plus I had you dominated

bohsman

How can you play an openender with a flushdraw on the board youre down to six outs

Hectorjelly

bohsman wrote:

How can you play an openender with a flushdraw on the board youre down to six outs

Probably wasnt a good play, but I didnt want a call. It looked like Marq had missed the flop, and you had been calling raises with hands like K7s (it was a K high flop I think), and would probably be good enough to put down your hand to a big raise. If not I still have outs. It was the wrong board to make a move like that on, as it was so draw heavy its not hard to put me on a draw.

I only have 6 outs if Im against a flush draw, but your not always up against a flush draw.

bohsman

I am not a fan of A or K small kicker so it was a freak if you saw me play it though I might call a raise with it just to try and outdraw someone, like my 23o against luke in last thursdays cash game

dsab

I think you see too many hands..

These are my stats from tonite on William Hill in the 0.5/1 USD Cash Game...

Games played: 260
Flops seens : 21 %
Showdowns Won: 66 %
Win if Flop seen: 85 %

I think these are very typical stats for myself, although I kept it pretty tight tonite.

BTW... yes, I won some cash... I made 480 out of my starting 40 (all on one table)... especially good evening, and not the norm.

Cheers,
DSAB

bohsman

Hold'em (Real Money):

902 hands played and saw flop:
- 90 times out of 115 while in small blind (78%)
- 91 times out of 110 while in big blind (82%)
- 227 times out of 677 in other positions (33%)
- a total of 408 times out of 902 (45%)

Pots won at showdown - 69 out of 117 (58%)
Pots won without showdown - 86
************************************************************
Omaha (Real Money):

122 hands played and saw flop:
- 14 times out of 15 while in small blind (93%)
- 14 times out of 14 while in big blind (100%)
- 66 times out of 93 in other positions (70%)
- a total of 94 times out of 122 (77%)

Pots won at showdown - 9 out of 22 (40%)
Pots won without showdown - 13

yes I know I play too many hands which is why I dont play too many cash games, still I am in profit with those stats

Juan Pablo

Nout really wrong with those omaha stats, any STT Omaha tourney I play I will take around 70%+ of the flops. Holdem seems a little too much though! Did you win the Yamaha last night? Had a christmas do last night, tis the season....

BigDragon

bohsman wrote:

I am not a fan of A or K small kicker so it was a freak if you saw me play it though I might call a raise with it just to try and outdraw someone, like my 23o against luke in last thursdays cash game

Oscar - What about a J7 suited??????

Samba

I agree with Hector but would also play the cards Dev mentioned limp in with K10 (AA Watch out), QJo.


It's easy to get drawn into playing cards you see winning at the table and then next thing you know you are calling 60% of the flops but by doing this you are simply going to trickle money slowly but surely, it does not seem like much at the end of the day it adds up.


I am going to defend Hector's play with 73s as on rare occasions I will call a big bet with complete crap such as that, it can be lethal when you hit the two pair, freak straight of flopped flush.


For Example i recently took 2nd place in a 5k tourny (2500 Runners) but one key hand was 75s, two callers before raised & re-raised to 4x bb, i then re-raised to 16x, i was chip leader by a huge margin and could afford to do so.
Blinds were at 200/400 i had 25k.

Down comes 4c 6c Ah, needless to say i had a good reason to call their bets, come the turn i got one of my many outs to hit the straight and both of them put all their chips in Stack was then 55k, the abuse i got afterwards was incredible and from then on in, all my raises(with good hands) were called as that one hand gave an image of a loose player and i hit alot of nice cards.

Calling and hitting a monster with that induces tillt on the table.
Once or twice in a tourney i'll pull a move like this it can be devastating(to your opponents) or it can make a small dent in your stack..

But Hector, in a cash game??????? mad man.....

Btw congrats, Mr. Player of the Month, wp

http://www.vcpoker.com/community/playerofthemonth.htm

Hectorjelly

BigDragon wrote:

Oscar - What about a J7 suited??????

J7s is called a hectorjelly apparently, I put an 1808 member all in with it when he had AA, rivered a straight flush

http://1808gang.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2283