UEFA Champions League - Final Group games (will contain scores)

A Dub in Glasgo

07/12/2004
Panathinaikos v PSV
Arsenal v Rosenborg
Shakhtar v Barcelona
Celtic v Milan
Valencia v Bremen
Internazionale v Anderlecht
PSG v CSKA Moskva
Porto v Chelsea

08/12/2004
Liverpool v Olympiacos
Deportivo v Monaco
Leverkusen v Dynamo Kyiv
Roma v Real Madrid
Ajax v Bayern
M. Tel-Aviv v Juventus
Fenerbahçe v Man. United
Lyon v Sparta

Some big games to decide who goes through to the next stage, who gets dropped into the UEFA Cup and who gets nothing

I will be at Celtic Park tonight for what is probably the 2nd best game at Celtic Park this season. I do not think Celtic will lose but they need to match or better Shakthars result against Barcelona to get the UEFA Cup spot.

I think Liverpool will get a UEFA Cup spot and Arsenal will probably scrape through into the next stage. Man United and Chelsea are already through.

most surreal game will probably be Roma v real Madrid and I hope Roma get a draw to put RM into the UEFA Cup.

AthAnRi

Arsenal may get through but they could well struggle tonight. They are missing Viera, Edu, Silva, Lauren. Wenger is also going to keep Lehman on the bench.

The Rooster

Arsenal still have Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Ljunberg, Campbell and Cole. All far superior to anything Rosenborg might offer. Rosenborg are already out and their season is over (surprisingly they won league again! - for the 13th successive time :eek: ) Arsenal should win comfortably.

Valencia v Bremen should be the game of the night tonight. Valencia need to win 1-0 or by 2 clear goals to pip Werder to the second qualifying spot in that group.

I hope Madrid make it against Roma tomorrow. They're great to watch, and it'd be super if they drew an English team in the next round.

Shaque attack

i think liverpool will come through this one, i don't think celtic will get the UEFA cup spot though. i expect milan to beat them

A Dub in Glasgo

Shaque attack wrote:

i think liverpool will come through this one, i don't think celtic will get the UEFA cup spot though. i expect milan to beat them

For that to happen, Shakhtar need to get at least a draw against Barcelona as well as Celtic losing. Shakhtar are certainly capable of getting that draw.

I would imagine that both Barcelona and Milan are keen to go top of the group.

LizardKing

if milan win and barca win , will Celtic get Uefa ??

also I'm really nervous about Pool game ... I expect it to be a long , edge of the seat, night but I hope they can scrape through to next champions league stage ...

A Dub in Glasgo

LizardKing wrote:

if milan win and barca win , will Celtic get Uefa ??

Yes - courtesy of that invaluable point in the Nou Camp

also I'm really nervous about Pool game ... I expect it to be a long , edge of the seat, night but I hope they can scrape through to next champions league stage ...

do they need to win by number of goals?

LizardKing

ehm think 1 nil will do it for them ... not sure on the other various paths .. perhaps someone can give us the full run down ....

ButcherOfNog

Liverpool need to win 1 nil or failing that, win by two clear goals. at least we'll have Baros on the bench and if it comes to it hes capable of getting a goal or two.

BolBill

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Yes - courtesy of that invaluable point in the Nou Camp

BBJ a mile off side though but who cares !!!!!

LizardKing

is there no chance of extra time or peno's then ??

mayordenis

ButcherOfNog wrote:

Liverpool need to win 1 nil or failing that, win by two clear goals. at least we'll have Baros on the bench and if it comes to it hes capable of getting a goal or two.

i had to rely on other results but if depor get a win and we win dont us and olympiakos go through???

The Rooster

If Liverpool win 2-1 (or 3-2, 4-3 etc)

AND Monaco win - then Liverpool finish 3rd in the group

AND Monaco lose - then Liverpool finish 2nd behind Olmpiakos

AND Monaco draw - then Liverpool finish top of the group! (with Olmpiakos 2nd and Monaco 3rd, all on 10 points)

Strange but true.....

eirebhoy

The Rooster wrote:

If Liverpool win 2-1 (or 3-2, 4-3 etc)

AND Monaco win - then Liverpool finish 3rd in the group

AND Monaco lose - then Liverpool finish 2nd behind Olmpiakos

AND Monaco draw - then Liverpool finish top of the group! (with Olmpiakos 2nd and Monaco 3rd, all on 10 points)

Strange but true.....

If Liverpool win 2-1 and Monaco draw, Liverpool finish second. If Liverpool win 3-1 and Monaco draw then they finish top. BTW, one vital thing in finishing top is that you play the 2nd leg of the next knockout stage at home. That gives a big advantage as they'd know what they have to do in their own back yard.

Man U have brought their second string to Turkey which is a strange one.

This is the first time in over a year that I don't feel confident for Celtic going into a home game. Agathe and Petrov are doubtful, McGeady should start. Hertha Berlin, PSG and a few premiership clubs are supposedly keeping tabs on Hartson who can talk to other clubs in January.

mr_angry

Another tense night for the Arsenal. Alas I wont be watching it. That'll probably add about 5 years to my lifespan though... :rolleyes:

Gangsta

i hope arsenal win but their central midfield in inexpierenced, but with vieira missing last year against inter they hammered them. More of the same plz:)

i hope madrid if they get through get one of the english teams who'll knock them out. that'll show the english clubs mean business:D

milan will kill celtic............0-1

Lex Luthor

I think Pool will get through this...2-0.
I am expecting Carragher to be all fired up for this one and will kill anyone that comes within 40yds of the goal.....

Jivin Turkey

I fully expect Liverpool and Arsenal to go through. And I think one of them will top their group seeing as their rivals for top all have tough away games.

United are through but I think it is a bit strange sending the second string to Turkey seeing as the will probably need a win to top the group.

kida

Arsenal if they don't get an early goal will struggle - only Lyundberg and Henry have scored in the CL this season. if get to half time and its 0-0 it could be a tough 2nd half.

Can Liverpool keep a clean sheet is their key as I cannot see them scoring twice .

Not surprised United have sent a 2nd string to Turkey, given the state of the other groups finishing top is not necessarily an advantage. The only benefit is playing ay home in the 2nd leg. I personally prefer Utd at home first as they can kill off the tie.

mike65

My predictions are always crap so here goes - Arsenal win, Liverpool loose!

Mike.

Jivin Turkey

kida wrote:

Arsenal if they don't get an early goal will struggle - only Lyundberg and Henry have scored in the CL this season. if get to half time and its 0-0 it could be a tough 2nd half.

Can Liverpool keep a clean sheet is their key as I cannot see them scoring twice .

Not surprised United have sent a 2nd string to Turkey, given the state of the other groups finishing top is not necessarily an advantage. The only benefit is playing ay home in the 2nd leg. I personally prefer Utd at home first as they can kill off the tie.

Well Arsenal have their early goal. Actually make that two.

Baros is back for Liverpool, Kewell was on the scoresheet at the weekend, I think they are more than capable of scoring twice.

And as for finishing top not an advantage? I guess we will just have to wait and see

joe.

4-1 arsneal. puting my money on 9-2

mayordenis

rosenborg wont get a second

Raskolnikov

Probably a good thing they didn't put Celtic on TV tonight, I think it'd have been chucked out the window.

Barcelona fielded their reserve team by the way, Celtic faced a near full strength team.

eirebhoy

First time we failed to score at home in over a year.

BTW Raskolnikov, Milan fielded more second string players than full but they're all still Italian, Argentinian and French regular internationals. McGeady was great and he even got a few claps by Nesta. MONEY!!!! :mad:

Jivin Turkey

Well Arsenal top the group unbeaten, not too bad for a team that always choke in Europe . It says a lot that they can do that considering they havnt been playing that well for the last month or so.

I really think United (and Liverpool!) should be looking to top their group now. Seeing as if they dont they likelyhood will be that they will face one of the Italian sides in the last 16, all of whom are doing very well this year.

Johnny_the_fox

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Well Arsenal top the group unbeaten, not too bad for a team that always choke in Europe . It says a lot that they can do that considering they havnt been playing that well for the last month or so.

Or It says they can beat a very poor Rosenborg team. :eek:

Jivin Turkey

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

Or It says they can beat a very poor Rosenborg team. :eek:

They topped the group for more reasons than winning tonight. Remaining unbeaten home and away, and beating their closest rival being the main ones.

Johnny_the_fox

Jivin Turkey wrote:

They topped the group for more reasons than winning tonight. Remaining unbeaten home and away, and beating their closest rival being the main ones.

Panathinaikos and PSV - closest rivals? I knew Arsenal are good, but I didnt know they were at good. :eek:

Arsenal should have walked that Group.

gandalf

Well they won it which is what counts

A very good first half by the Gunners shame they took the foot off the pedal in the second half. Fabregas is a relevation and I really enjoyed watching him score his goal.

The Muppet

A good win for Arsenal. Their new keeper doesn't impress me , I can see him let them down big time when the heat comes on. I believe Lemon is the better keeper.

gandalf

Yeah I can just see Arsene's letter to Santa.

"Dear Santa

Please send me a goalkeeper who can actually catch the ball.

Arsene.

PS anychance you could drop a raindeer on Mike Riley "

Jivin Turkey

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

PSV - closest rivals?

Yes PSV were their closest rivals in their group. And they beat them. They can only beat what is put in front of them. They topped their group minus 2 of their senior midfielders for all of the games without really getting going. I would be pleased if I were Wenger or an Arsenal fan.

Caesar_Bojangle

chelsea lost 2-1

eirebhoy

Fenerbache are 4/1 to be winning at h/t and f/t, I can't resist those odds. This is the same team that beat Arsenal reserves 1-0 in a sold out Old Trafford, can't see them doing much damage in Turkey.

This could probably be Fergie's biggest ever mistake. Playing the second leg of a knockout match at home makes some difference.

kaimera

suprise loss by chelsea?

what sort of team was out?

growler

chelsea had a strong team out, nice goal by Duff again, Porto were very "up for it" and it didn't matter to Chelsea anyway. Have to admit I was hoping for an Arsenal loss to suitably demoralise them for Sunday's game.

shame about Celtic, they had their chances though.

The Rooster

eirebhoy wrote:

If Liverpool win 2-1 and Monaco draw, Liverpool finish second.

Nope. The 3 of them would be on 10 points, so AFAIK it would go down to results between the 3 teams, in which case they would all be level with 2 wins and 2 losses each, but Liverpool would finish top with a GD of +1, Olympiakos second (L) and Monaco third (-1).

Howver given that DLC have nothing to play for I'd expect Monaco to win comfortably enough.

cournioni

eirebhoy wrote:

This could probably be Fergie's biggest ever mistake. Playing the second leg of a knockout match at home makes some difference.

If they win will they be playing the first leg away and the second leg at home? Nearly every time United have been knocked out of the CL they played the second leg at home, which was their downfall.

The one time they were knocked out is when they couldn't beat Leverkusen away from home in the CL semi final, they were very unlucky that night.

Lex Luthor

bmarley wrote:

4-1 arsneal. puting my money on 9-2

almost....

kida

I agree fully with Pornapster - Utd have struggled with the 2nd leg at home - they go abrroad and get a scoreless or a low scoring draw, think the tie is over and are less motivated for the 2nd leg and thus can't raise it if they need to. Playing the first leg at home they could kill the tie off and even if it doesn't go well they will be more motivated for the 2nd leg. On their day they are cpabale of beating anyone home or away.

BolBill

kida wrote:

I agree fully with Pornapster - Utd have struggled with the 2nd leg at home - they go abrroad and get a scoreless or a low scoring draw, think the tie is over and are less motivated for the 2nd leg and thus can't raise it if they need to. Playing the first leg at home they could kill the tie off and even if it doesn't go well they will be more motivated for the 2nd leg. On their day they are cpabale of beating anyone home or away.

Yeah except Real Madrid and Porto

A Dub in Glasgo

2 positives from last night at Celtic Park

1. Aiden McGeady... what an excellent performance and I am really looking forward to him bedding into the side

2. We can concentrate on the League (straws being clutched)

I really fear that O'Neill will be off soon. The Celtic board have proved again that they cannot match the ambitions of the manager and the fans. To not strenghen the side during the summer was criminal and really short sighted from the board. Hopefully Quinn will get torn to shreds for the Bank of England fiasco.

I saw Roy Keane at the game last night, he better not be thinking he can do another Miller thingy.

cournioni

BolBill wrote:

Yeah except Real Madrid and Porto

Those games were away for the first leg. And at Old Trafford for the second leg. Which has been a disadvantage to United for so many years.

I'm talking about United getting a home match for the first leg.

The Rooster

Personally I prefer my team to play at home first too.

However, quality of opposition is far more important. On Monday, when Ferguson picked his squad for this match, it looked like it would be of no particular benefit whether you came first or second.

But thats changed now. If United do end up second, they'd be looking to draw one of Olmpiakos/Monaco or Kiev/Leverkusen in the next round. However it wouldnt take unusual results for both Madrid and Liverpool to top their groups in which case United could only draw one of Juve, Milan, Inter or Real in the next round. Not overly pleasant!

On the other hand if they top the group they'd be playing one of Barca, Bayern, Werder, Porto, Olympiakos, PSV or Kiev. Thats a 5 out of 7 chance of getting a team you'd really fancy beating. If I was a United supporter I'd certainly be hoping to top the group, even if it means playing at home in the 2nd leg!

cournioni

Well to be honest Rooster. Quality of opposition doesn't really matter. You will have to play these teams sooner or later in the competition so why not play them in the second round?

The Rooster

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Well to be honest Rooster. Quality of opposition doesn't really matter. You will have to play these teams sooner or later in the competition so why not play them in the second round?

Well the longer you stay in the competition, the more money for the club. And probably easier to beat 2 or 3 good teams than 4 of them. Granted United did have a difficult route the year they did win it, albeit they saved their worst performance for the final. But who's to say how far they would have got in the 2 years they drew Madrid, if they had not drawn them. IMO in those years United would have done better in a one-off game against Madrid than over 2 legs.

There could be an argument though that United play better against the likes of Inter and Juve than they do against the likes of Porto and Leverkusen.

eirebhoy

Rooster - If Liverpool win 2-1 Olympiakos go ahead of them no matter what because of the away goal so if the score is 2-1 Liverpool will not win the group.

I can't believe that anyone would want to play the first leg at home. Only 2 teams (out of 8 matches) who played their first leg at home in the 2nd Round last season qualified (Porto and Depor). I would honestly prefer my team to play away first against a stronger team than home first against a weaker team.

jank

Strange that fergie is almost resigned to coming second in the group since he sees europe as a main target for the season!

Coming top is an advantage that you play weaker teams but this year there are not that many weak teams in there as drawing barca or munich is far from an easy draw.(I hope Arsenal dont get them!)

IMO its a very strong competition this year much stronger than last year

jank

Already Qualified

Arsenal [top]
PSV

Internazionale [top]
Bremen

Chelsea [top]
Porto

Milan [top]
Barcelona

Juventus [top]
Bayern

Man. United [?]
Lyon [?]

Could Qualify tonight

Olympiacos
Monaco
Liverpool
Dynamo Kyiv
Leverkusen
Real Madrid

Id like arsenal to get Porto or Monaco if they qualify of course.
So what do ye think. Finishing second doesnt give much leverage at all as there are many hard teams in there (Juve, Milan, Inter)

A Dub in Glasgo

1 - 0 to Olympiakos and Monaco so it looks as if Liverpool are going out

2-0 to Lyon