Luas & Box Junctions

Hagar

A short time ago there was huge debates on thes Boards regarding motorists blocking box junctions and impeding the progress of the Luas.

Recently I have become a regular user the Luas between St James Hospital and Busáras. Just outside the Hospital to the right there is a set of "Luas traffic lights" where its stops to allow regular road users to proceed down James's St before it swings left down Steeven's Hill. When a tram stops correctly at these lights it completely blocks the box junction where Basin St Lower joins James's St. I accept this may not be the busiest junction in the whole city but it is busy enough to have warrented a box juction in the first place.

This must be considered a deliberate policy of Luas given the placement of the lights. Surely for a tram to stop in this manner on a box junction is just as wrong as a car or van doing the same?

John R

Do the lights actually control access to/from Basin St? From memory I believe they don't. If they do and the tram blocks access to/from the street during a green phase then there might be a point to answer. Is there restricted access to/from Basin St. that would make the yellow box inappliccable for that purpose? In general all the tram signals (remember they have seperate signals from the traffic lights for road vehicles) are placed strictly at locations where a tram stopped won't block legal road manouveres.

Hagar

The lights do not control access from Basin St Lower to James St.
I was trying to make a distinction between "Luas Lights" and "Traffic Lights".
Trams do not stop for regular traffic lights.
They stop for their own lights which are somehow linked to regular traffic lights.
This is a normal road junction with no restrictions of any type.
The Luas does intentionally block the whole box junction dozens of times a day.
This has to be a road traffic offence. I know it would be if I did it.

sliabh

Hagar wrote:

This has to be a road traffic offence. I know it would be if I did it.

Different rules might apply when you are 30m long and running on rails

P&L

sliabh wrote:

Different rules might apply when you are 30m long and running on rails

not as much as you'd think! ever notice that the trams have indicators?
It's an interesting question, I'm going try and find out...

sliabh

I know that shortly after the Green line started running for the public, insurance disks appeared in the windows of trams. Are they are still there?

P&L

never noticed that one, will they need to be NCT'd aswell?

I wonder if the road vehicles act is seperate from, or a part of the overall rules of the road...

Traffic

No the insurance discs no longer have to be displayed

sliabh

Traffic wrote:

No the insurance discs no longer have to be displayed

Any idea what that was about? Was someone covering their ass in case there was a question raised about it?

Victor

P&L wrote:

not as much as you'd think! ever notice that the trams have indicators?

It's cool to watch them on Adelaide Road at right with about 10 indicators flashing in unison.

is_that_so

Found myself looking down the line at a Luas, last week. Bit scary. Traffic light was green when I went through junction (honest).

BrianD

It is quite possible that the yellow boxes only apply to vehicular traffic and not trams. I have seen the yellow box in question and I don't see how a tram sitting in it will impact on other traffic. The yellow box may be keep traffic moving in/out of basin st instead of sitting on the tramlines?

is_that_so wrote:

Found myself looking down the line at a Luas, last week. Bit scary. Traffic light was green when I went through junction (honest).

Where were you?

is_that_so

BrianD wrote:

It is quite possible that the yellow boxes only apply to vehicular traffic and not trams. I have seen the yellow box in question and I don't see how a tram sitting in it will impact on other traffic. The yellow box may be keep traffic moving in/out of basin st sitting on the tramlines?




Where were you?

I was heading down Queen St just by the Bridewell. Light changed as I was going through the junction.

cdebru

they also block the yellow box at the bottom of abbey street near liberty hall and block the road for traffic coming from beresford place heading to gardiner street

Hagar

BrianD wrote:

The yellow box may be keep traffic moving in/out of basin st sitting on the tramlines?

I don't think so. Motorists are legally allowed stop on a box junction if they are in the process of making a legal right hand turn.

P&L

Official answer is the Tram is exempt as it is not a mechanically propelled vehicle as defined.

maxheadroom

P&L wrote:

Official answer is the Tram is exempt as it is not a mechanically propelled vehicle as defined.

So now we finally know the reason why Luas was so expenisve - it's actually a cunningly disguised maglev

Andrew Duffy

Motorists are legally allowed stop on a box junction if they are in the process of making a legal right hand turn.

Only if it is solely oncoming traffic preventing them from making the turn. So you can stop in a yellow box to turn right out of a stream of traffic, but not if you are turning right into a stream of traffic, as the case would be coming from Basin St.

It is odd that the sensor for the tram is positioned so that the side street is blocked, but 200+ people on a tram should have precedence over one or two in tin boxes. If the city council would resequence the lights so the tram never waits for five minutes on James' St as it regularly does, there would be no problem.

Hagar

P&L wrote:

Official answer is the Tram is exempt as it is not a mechanically propelled vehicle as defined.

What are the legal / insurance implications if I crash into something that is "not a mechanically propelled vehicle" ?
What if a pedestrian is struck by something that is "not a mechanically propelled vehicle" ?

BrianD

was heading down Queen St just by the Bridewell. Light changed as I was going through the junction.

So it went from green to red with no orange? You said in your original post that is was green now you say it changed?

Victor

Hagar wrote:

What are the legal / insurance implications if I crash into something that is "not a mechanically propelled vehicle" ? What if a pedestrian is struck by something that is "not a mechanically propelled vehicle" ?

I'm sure they sue Connex quickly enough if Connex was at fault.

Tarabuses

Victor wrote:

It's cool to watch them on Adelaide Road at right with about 10 indicators flashing in unison.

Well, it's good to know that some vehicles still use their indicators.

BrianD

I think there is specific legislation that covers the trams ... possibly under the light rail order acts (or whatever they are called). A horse and trap is not a mechanically propelled vehicle so there are other road users who would not be covered by legislation.

I think I am correct in saying that the yellow box in question is not signal controlled from Basin St so the only thing to do is to sit and wait till it is clear to proceed.

is_that_so

BrianD wrote:

So it went from green to red with no orange? You said in your original post that is was green now you say it changed?

It was green as I "set off" through the juncstion and red by the time I got through. Green to red was very fast,hardly saw the orange.