Dr. No - Paisley Pattern (again!)

stevenmu

What I'd love to see happen is for the IRA to take some photos of decomissioning, then put on an exhibition somewhere showing a timeline of the history of the troubles. Start off with some photos of british atrocoties and oppression, then some of the heroic IRA fighting back, maybe a few of the hunger strikes aswell, then some of the peace talks and decomissioning process, and if possible finish it off with a photoshopped one of Gerry Adams shaking hands with Dr. Paisley, that'd teach him a thing or two about humiliation

thejollyrodger

I always wondered, what if the provos just pressed ahead with the decomissioning without any pictures. There wouldnt be much Ian Paisley could do afterwards if all the weapons were gone !!

FTA69

Horeb-Security wrote:

Paisley is right, how can you trust terrorists.

Humiliation, what about the 3000 odd dead people.

100% to him, he wants no guns in politics and SF do.

Evidence of a photographic nature is correct, what else are the DUP supposed to do accept the word of murderers, criminals and thugs.

They are right , guns out deal in.

Yes, lets talk about the 3000 odd dead people, many killed by the UVF Paisley helped re-organise in 1966, or the many killed by the British Army and the RUC. The IRA are not the only armed group involved in this process and to centre exclusively around them in the creation of a deal is simply to ignore other serious factors.

A process was set up to deal with the issue of arms and that process was agreed and ratified by all, including the two governments. De Chastelin and the arms commision are the ones responsible for that, they are independent and bipartisan so I can't see how they are not good enough for the DUP.

Maybe you should educate yourself on the subject before commenting on it so vociferously.

Horeb

I am well educated Pal and not an armchair expert.

DUP are right and as for the other organisations they are not in the equation.

The IRA have a huge body count and the majority killed by the security forces were terrorists.

The UVF and UDA/UFF, LVF etc are just as bad and I am not defending them.

Msrs McGuinness and Adams are two puppets that are nothing merely but show men at least paisley had some power and has the balls to say how things are.

I hope it does not go through unless his demands are met, for to long have the fenians being appeased and let run riot with the likes drumcree etc.

I have both family and friends up there and have lived in London Derry for twelve years so dont rant or be so judgemental

Boggle

The man is afraid of peace. he is afraid of becoming redundant in a climate lacking of sectarian hatred... what would he do then?

The truth is that no-one knows how many arms the IRA have - they are a guerilla op, which means they so not have a huge need for conventional weapons (such as guns). Lets face it for most of what I've heard about 20 auto weapons would be enough as all their attacks are in the form of explosive devices...

I would have though the disbanding if the IRA would have been more important than the destruction of a few guns...

FTA69

Horeb-Security wrote:

I am well educated Pal and not an armchair expert.

DUP are right and as for the other organisations they are not in the equation.

The IRA have a huge body count and the majority killed by the security forces were terrorists.

The UVF and UDA/UFF, LVF etc are just as bad and I am not defending them.

Msrs McGuinness and Adams are two puppets that are nothing merely but show men at least paisley had some power and has the balls to say how things are.

I hope it does not go through unless his demands are met, for to long have the fenians being appeased and let run riot with the likes drumcree etc.

I have both family and friends up there and have lived in London Derry for twelve years so dont rant or be so judgemental

Fenians running riot? O dearie me, won't someone please put them back into their cages! Get this son, we are not going back into the box so get over it, this isn't 1968 and ye aren't looking over Burntollet Bridge today.

Any man who states Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are simply "front men" in the Republican Movement is obviously not too well informed in the subject.

Also, "other organisations" are "involved in the equation", the GFA is not specific to the IRA but to all armed groups as well the RUC and British Army, another example of your shocking ignorance on the subject. I also notice you skipped right over the points about De Chastelin and the decommissioning process, and I again ask you, are these people "murdering scum"?

Regards Drumcree, so you are now condemning people for not being prepared to have a sectarian, racist organisation with links to the UVF parading down Nationalist areas brandishing pictures of sectarian murderers? What would your view be if the Afrikaaner Resistance Movement wanted to march through
Soweto? Nationalists will not be humiliated by people who declare them an inferior, second-class version of people and they will also resist efforts by their British masters to force bigots through Nationalist areas.

Finally, regarding the British Army and RUC, the majority of people killed by the IRA were legitimate targets so your point is irrelevant really.

mycroft

FTA69 wrote:

Finally, regarding the British Army and RUC, the majority of people killed by the IRA were legitimate targets so your point is irrelevant really.

Well thats comfort to the thousands of people killed or hurt by the IRA

Johnny_the_fox

FTA69 wrote:

RUC

the RUC no longer exist... they are the PSNI... the last time i walked pass the station.

How are the PSNI - meant to move forward with out the input and support of Sinn Fein??

FTA69

mycroft wrote:

Well thats comfort to the thousands of people killed or hurt by the IRA

I never belittled anybody's suffering, I was simply rejecting horeb's assertion that the Brit Army or the RUC's death toll does not matter at all considering the majority killed were combatants (a lie as it happens).

FTA69

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

the RUC no longer exist... they are the PSNI... the last time i walked pass the station.

How are the PSNI - meant to move forward with out the input and support of Sinn Fein??

They are the RUC with brand new uniforms and a new name, the differences between the two are as minimal as the differences between the UDR and the B-Specials. While they were mass raiding houses in your city several weeks ago did they seem all new and improved to you?

Sinn Féin will participate in the policing system once the Patten reforms have been implemented in full, that is a situation only the British Government can bring about and until that then we will not be a part of an unreformed paramilitary force.

Johnny_the_fox

FTA69 wrote:

They are the RUC with brand new uniforms and a new name, the differences between the two are as minimal as the differences between the UDR and the B-Specials. While they were mass raiding houses in your city several weeks ago did they seem all new and improved to you?

Sinn Féin will participate in the policing system once the Patten reforms have been implemented in full, that is a situation only the British Government can bring about and until that then we will not be a part of an unreformed paramilitary force.

While Sinn Fein wait in the wings... it is really going to speed up the process.

daveirl

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jesus_thats_gre

FTA69 wrote:

Finally, regarding the British Army and RUC, the majority of people killed by the IRA were legitimate targets so your point is irrelevant really.

This is totally incorrect, the majority of people were innocent civilians. Coincidently, it was stated categorically on RTE last night in the documentry about Joe Cahill.


What about the IRA men who were killed by the then RUC and British Army, were they legitimate targets? Self defence and all?

dabhal

daveirl wrote:

Interesting because I can show you a picture of LVF decommissioning right now.

QUOTE]

I take it thats from the 1998 media sham

daveirl

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A Dub in Glasgo

daveirl wrote:

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That is not happening right now!!

A couple of redundant handgusn and some metal pipe being put to the saw... whippee

I think evidence of the extend of decommissioning is essential, not necessarily photographic evidence but at least let DeChastilin publish a list of the specific quantities destroyed. The Provos won't even allow that to happen.

If the murders of Gerry McCabe are getting out early I'll be damn well needing substantial proof of what's been destroyed.

So who will ensure that weapons are not produced or bought in the future. The whole photographic thing is a sham and it is not really about negating a possible threat as weapons can be bought so easily now. The most important thing is to change the mindset and humiliating republicans and showing that they 'surrendered' will not change the mindset.

I bet the ODC's in Ireland have a bigger arsenal than the IRA now.

A Dub in Glasgo

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

This is totally incorrect, the majority of people were innocent civilians. Coincidently, it was stated categorically on RTE last night in the documentry about Joe Cahill.

You are correct, just the same way that the majority of people killed in Iraq are civilians yet we see plenty of people explaining that away as inevitable.

What about the IRA men who were killed by the then RUC and British Army, were they legitimate targets? Self defence and all?

Yes. They would not have been charged with muder, the IRA man would have been in the exact same circumstance.

daveirl

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dabhal

daveirl wrote:

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How is what I said a lie?
I said the pics would be more than they are doing now. That would be true and was meant to highlight a positive aspect of whole pictures issue, thanks for dragging it down about 20pegs.

jesus_thats_gre

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Finally, regarding the British Army and RUC, the majority of people killed by the IRA were legitimate targets so your point is irrelevant really.

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

This is totally incorrect, the majority of people were innocent civilians. Coincidently, it was stated categorically on RTE last night in the documentry about Joe Cahill.

You are correct, just the same way that the majority of people killed in Iraq are civilians yet we see plenty of people explaining that away as inevitable.

So are civilians legitimate targets?

A Dub in Glasgo

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

So are civilians legitimate targets?

No I said you are correct in what you say not that civilians are legitimate targets

eakin

why now are the IRA getting all defensive about photographs when for years they publisied them as part of their propaganda!!

the balls in the court of the IRA

A Dub in Glasgo

eakin wrote:

why now are the IRA getting all defensive about photographs when for years they publisied them as part of their propaganda!!

the balls in the court of the IRA

You are honestly asking why the IRA are not happy to give propaganda to the Unionists so that the photos can be plastered all over Belfast to humiliate the IRA and state that the Unionists defeated them.

If you cannot see the difference, nothing that I write will show you the light.

eakin

I think at the evry least they owe it to the people of northern ireland!!
if they are for real they will go the full way...
here's hoping!

marco murphy

daveirl wrote:

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Thats my dad working in the shed

FTA69

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

This is totally incorrect, the majority of people were innocent civilians. Coincidently, it was stated categorically on RTE last night in the documentry about Joe Cahill.


What about the IRA men who were killed by the then RUC and British Army, were they legitimate targets? Self defence and all?

People differ on what a legitimate target entails, if off-duty members of the police, British Army, UDR etc are included the toll tips slightly in favour of combatants. If the above are regarded as "civilians" well then the statistics change to the scenario you outlined.

IRA Volunteers are combatants and as such they expected to be, and were, targeted by the Brits or whoever.

Raskolnikov

daveirl wrote:

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Now you're spreading mistruths, the LVF decommissioned some arms before deciding that they'd hang on to a few guns just in case.

The IRA already have made token gestures of decommissioning in the way that the LVF have.

While I'm at it, the British pledged to demilitarize N. Ireland and tear down the watch towers that look over Nationalist areas all over N. Ireland. One tower was pulled down for the cameras, nothing was done since.

If there's going to be decommissioning then wouldn't it be super if I can visit Armagh without the having a guns pointed at me by foreigners.

Lots of typos and bits to correct

daveirl

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FTA69

The IRA have no problem in stating they have decommisioned ALL their arms in public or otherwise, that was what was agreed in 1998 ie the weapons issue would be resolved through the independent auspices of De Chastelin's body. That was subsequently ratified and it should be good enough for everyone.

daveirl

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